American attack aftermath: Pakistan declares attack a 'plot'

[blain2]

Well they know they cannot provide any proof of Pakistani Troops firing the first shot hence blaming Taliban now!It was deliberate Operation IMHO and we may get to know the motive of this op maybe after a year or so?

The motive could be that they made a mistake, but the evidence thus far alludes otherwise.

The more complicated motive, the one that I subscribe to, is that they launched the attack to provoke a response from our side, which in turn would have given them the excuse to carry out operations deeper into Pakistani territory.

The fact that the Pakistani side has decided not to react militarily, even if we did it would not gain us much aside from increased pressure, is the smart thing to do. People are starting to realize that ISAF wants the ability to engage inside of Pakistan in a repeat of what went on in Cambodia.

I am quoting M K Bhadrakumar's comments in an article yesterday or so:

"Washington may have seriously erred if the intention Friday night was to draw out the Pakistani military into a retaliatory mode and then to hit it with a sledgehammer and make it crawl on its knees pleading mercy. Things aren't going to work that way. Pakistan is going to give a "Persian" response."

It is pretty sad as to how the US has lost its way for tactical gains in Afghanistan by losing out on a fairly long term relationship with Pakistan going back many decades.

---------- Post added at 12:05 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:03 PM ----------

Pakistan was invited but refused. Big blunder.

And ISPR needs to work HARD this time to propagate the Pakistani PoV.

Pakistan refused based on the track record of the past investigations. No less than the most informed person in the Pakistan Army, i.e. DGMO, has made comments addressing this specific issue. That he is biased towards Pakistan is obviously a factor, however he was also privy to the reports from these investigations in the past and knows how blame was or was not attributed.

 

[Jango]

The motive could be that they made a mistake, but the evidence thus far alludes otherwise.

The more complicated motive, the one that I subscribe to, is that they launched the attack to provoke a response from our side, which in turn would have given them the excuse to carry out operations deeper into Pakistani territory.

The fact that the Pakistani side has decided not to react militarily, even if we did it would not gain us much aside from increased pressure, is the smart thing to do. People are starting to realize that ISAF wants the ability to engage inside of Pakistan in a repeat of what went on in Cambodia.

I am quoting M K Bhadrakumar's comments in an article yesterday or so:

"Washington may have seriously erred if the intention Friday night was to draw out the Pakistani military into a retaliatory mode and then to hit it with a sledgehammer and make it crawl on its knees pleading mercy. Things aren't going to work that way. Pakistan is going to give a "Persian" response."

It is pretty sad as to how the US has lost its way for tactical gains in Afghanistan by losing out on a fairly long term relationship with Pakistan going back many decades.

Good analysis blain2.

If that is the case, then smart move.

 

[clmeta]

Pakistan's government has shown a very smart response. I think this development will show the world what is the extant of US dependence on Pakistan. If America can manage without Pakistan using Northern route it will have to make compromises with Russia and Pakistan would lose all its leverage with US. If US can't manage without Pakistan, war on terror is over and Afghanistan is going to be more unstable than ever. Very complicated development for the region.

 

[AstanoshKhan]

2 hours of operation inside Pakistan's territory, and our Airforce was mum the whole time leaving the Jawans to be butchered by the crusaders. To hell with these F-16s and Jf-17s, if they can't even protect men of their own organization.

May they Rest In Peace, and may Allah SWT be the judge - the blood of those nation's sons, and the tears and sorrows of those families will not go in vein.

If no action of the same scale didn't taken, the demoralization among military personnel will lead this organization to an absolute disaster.

 

[Jango]

.....

Pakistan refused based on the track record of the past investigations. No less than the most informed person in the Pakistan Army, i.e. DGMO, has made comments addressing this specific issue.

The posture of the Pakistani side has been very different this time around.

Everybody is speaking that it was not a mistake, and saying of repercussions.

In previous incidents, all that was said was that it is a sad incident, inquiry will be launched, and we will look into the matter.

But now, statements are being given more openly, and when the DGMO says that, you know something is going on.

 

[karan.1970]

Most of the soldiers died during their sleep and left over who manned the guns were killed in due process.... ensuing combat between couple of alive soldiers who came to take down the chopper with 12.7mm guns were also killed. i love how indians are looking for a reason to find inconsistencies in pakistani story, forgetting that their masters gora decieved them again and again when they ruled the sub-continent. you are now slated a new "B" of west, wait and see what will happen to you. welcome to slavery 401.

Interesting how an off topic hissy fit gets thanked by moderators

No disrespect intended buddy.. There are bound to be inconsistencies in both sides of the story till the time final version gets released, both by Pakistan and NATO.. I saw a post talking about eye witness accounts of survivors talking about the assault lasting 5-6 hours on one hand where as the ISPR version talks of 1-1.5 hours. Gen Aftabh akhtar talking about posts being 300 meters from the border as against 2.5 Km in another release and being on Afghan soil in a release from NATO.. The idea here is precisely to discuss these and try and understand what really happened. Dont just go and generalize your hate against Indians. BTW, the article quoted by Agno has been authored by a man of Indian origin who is lambasting NATO for the attack. But I guess that slipped your notice while you were going ballistic on Indians

PS: Who was the old B of the West ??

 

[VelocuR]

One of the Pakistani military officials says that the deaths of soldiers are the gravest indignity they can suffer. "What do we say to the men who have been fighting the militants in that tough area?" he asks, rhetorically. "How do we even show our faces to them?" Adopting a wounded tone, he further asks, "Who is our enemy, the militants or NATO?"


China responds with ballistic missile exercises near Afghanistan!

http://bbs.tiexue.net/post_5608655_1.html

 

[President Camacho]

It is very important to hear all the accounts to ascertain the most plausible account of events, esp when we, as the public, are in the dark.

Here are some of the accounts:

Pakistan's version -

1. Maps were provided to the ISAF, so they must have known it was a military outpost.

2. The attack was unprovoked, and lasted for 2 hours.

3. The military men were killed in sleep (most of them at least).

4. PA HQ was alerted through the quarters in Peshawar, and they pleaded with the NATO commanders to stop the attack, but to no avail.

Now the statement of ISAF -

1. The incident is highly regrettable, NATO sends out is condolences to the bereaved families of the martyred soldiers.

2. Nothing can be officially said about the incident till the investigation report is out.


Now the account of injured soldiers who experienced the incident firsthand -

1. At about 11pm (3 hours prior to the attack), a light aircraft came from across the border, flies over the post and fires flares and returns.

Cross checking with Pakistan's official version - How is it that such an incident of aircraft coming in from across border and firing flares takes place, and all the troops are still asleep?

2. About half an hour later (not even midnight yet, and still full 2 and a half hours prior to the time of the attack) armed helicopters and light aircraft came. They again fired flares and began firing at the men.

Cross checking with Pakistan's official version - Firing begins at 11:30 PM, and soldiers are still asleep?

3. They remained in the area for about 5 to 6 hours. During this time, the helicopter kept firing at individual personnel at will.

Cross checking with Pakistan's official version - How is it, that the attack lasted 5-6 hours, the PA high command pleads with the NATO forces to stop the attack (throughout 5-6 hours, but to no avail - even if we say they pleaded with NATO forces at 2:30 PM, still they had enough time to send in reinforcements.), and yet does not send in any reinforcements or fighter jets, that shouldn't take more than 30 mins to reach the point of contention?


----------------

What I do (personally) gather from all the accounts and official statements here is that that was a terrible communication gap between the outpost, and the Army headquarters, with the involvement of a communication node at Peshawar. Most probably, it was a case of mistaken identity, and the NATO forces acted in an overzealous manner. The actual bombarding of the outpost lasted no more than a few minutes - provided, the Pakistani Army communicated its pleas to stop the attack right away

Anyhow, the accounts of all the parties involved are still very questionable and leave out many holes yet to be filled to appear as clean as truth. However, I would, for one, believe the accounts of the injured soldier more than the statements of NATO or PA spokesmen.

 

[Patriot]

just adding my two cents. Boycott will further isolate Pakistan, GOP/PA should go.

Your Opinion does not matter.They can host talks and all that crap but what matters is situation on the ground.

 

[Emmie]

Investigation report cannot be pellucid if US is to investigate the incident! Its like asking a cat to safeguard milk.

 

[r3alist]

just adding my two cents. Boycott will further isolate Pakistan, GOP/PA should go.

nato cannot indefinitely isolate pakistan.

right now nato needs to remove any ammunition for pakistan to continue this stance, this means patching up with pakistan.

americans can be pragmatic when they need to, so they will look to mend this, BUT they have also laid the groundwork to marginalize pakistan, this is their intention, pakistan cannot change that, this seems to be the path.

therefore pakistan should look to hold their ground if nato have already decided to discard and demonise pakistan, because pakistan for this brief moment has the upper ground and can gain some concessions.

 

[blain2]

Pakistan's government has shown a very smart response. I think this development will show the world what is the extant of US dependence on Pakistan. If America can manage without Pakistan using Northern route it will have to make compromises with Russia and Pakistan would lose all its leverage with US. If US can't manage without Pakistan, war on terror is over and Afghanistan is going to be more unstable than ever. Very complicated development for the region.

Clmeta,

The bottom line is that what you say in terms of Pakistan losing leverage over time is correct. However just how much longer do you think the Russians or the Chinese will tolerate a US military presence right in their backyards?

Do realize that after almost 10 years, the countries surrounding Afghanistan are tired of the unwanted guest who continues to impose its own and impacting the security of the surrounding countries.

Pakistan, Russia and China, through the SCO forum, are starting to see a convergence of views where they feel that the US presence in the region will cause more problems. The recent 2024 plan has ticked off Russians and Chinese alike. If that does not make for instability and complexity, then I don't know what else does.

 

[Cent4]

2 hours of operation inside Pakistan's territory, and our Airforce was mum the whole time leaving the Jawans to be butchered by the crusaders. To hell with these F-16s and Jf-17s, if they can't even protect men of their own organization.

May they Rest In Peace, and may Allah SWT be the judge - the blood of those nation's sons, and the tears and sorrows of those families will not go in vein.

If no action of the same scale didn't taken, the demoralization among military personnel will lead this organization to an absolute disaster.

Contacts were being made at high level with NATO to stop the operation as we know I think Army deliberately didnot involve the PAF.

 

[Jango]

It is very important to hear all the accounts to ascertain the most plausible account of events, esp when we, as the public, are in the dark.

Here are some of the accounts:

Pakistan's version -

1. Maps were provided to the ISAF, so they must have known it was a military outpost.

2. The attack was unprovoked, and lasted for 2 hours.

3. The military men were killed in sleep (most of them at least).

4. PA HQ was alerted through the quarters in Peshawar, and they pleaded with the NATO commanders to stop the attack, but to no avail.

Now the statement of ISAF -

1. The incident is highly regrettable, NATO sends out is condolences to the bereaved families of the martyred soldiers.

2. Nothing can be officially said about the incident till the investigation report is out.


Now the account of injured soldiers who experienced the incident firsthand -

1. At about 11pm (3 hours prior to the attack), a light aircraft came from across the border, flies over the post and fires flares and returns.

Cross checking with Pakistan's official version - How is it that such an incident of aircraft coming in from across border and firing flares takes place, and all the troops are still asleep?

2. About half an hour later (not even midnight yet, and still full 2 and a half hours prior to the time of the attack) armed helicopters and light aircraft came. They again fired flares and began firing at the men.

Cross checking with Pakistan's official version - Firing begins at 11:30 PM, and soldiers are still asleep?

3. They remained in the area for about 5 to 6 hours. During this time, the helicopter kept firing at individual personnel at will.

Cross checking with Pakistan's official version - How is it, that the attack lasted 5-6 hours, the PA high command pleads with the NATO forces to stop the attack (throughout 5-6 hours?), and yet does not send in any reinforcements or fighter jets, that shouldn't take more than 30 mins to reach the point of contention?


----------------

What I do (personally) gather from all the accounts and official statements here is that that was a terrible communication gap between the outpost, and the Army headquarters, with the involvement of a communication node at Peshawar. Most probably, it was a case of mistaken identity, the NATO forces acting in an overzealous manner, and the actually bombarding of the outpost lasting no more than a few minutes - provided the Pakistani Army communicated its pleas to stop the attack right away.

Anyhow, the accounts of all the parties involved are still very questionable and leave out many holes yet to be filled to appear as clean as truth. However, I would, for one, believe the accounts of the injured soldier more than the statements of NATO or PA spokesmen.

Where did you get the soldiers account from? Never seen or heard anything like that till now.

The op , as said by everybody. lasted for 2-5 hours. It was unprovoked, most soldiers were sleeping. According to one injured soldier, there were 4 helis. Which came and started firing instantly, according to his interview video.

 

[PATRIOT6]

Brother, Pakistan is already economically not doing well.

4. Expenditure of War on Terror.

expenditure on war against terror ?? isnt it granted by usa ???

I KNOW things are going worst thats what i said above,
but the point is will usa will gonna change our economical stats????
hnh, the damage is in front of u
our president kept saying that no more attacks after that quetta operation event,
no more compromise and same day in news there ws a drone attck , same day,
anyhow i know ,

if u wanna see and wait for pakistan economics to be better and then defend the country
the day will never come and next if u will succeed your opponents will be 5 times more stronger than now
and things in past ?????
will go more worst for pakistan as any new gov tell the previous one bankrupt pakistan , so again economics fall down.

i know army needs more power but in their greed they are spoiling the nation feelings and now after us connections ppl dont love and proud of soldiers than in 1965
that makes a differences.

---------- Post added at 08:16 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:15 PM ----------

i mean abbotabad operation above