American attack aftermath: Pakistan declares attack a 'plot'

[blain2]

The above description points out quite a few things. That FLIRs were used to go after each individual jawan and officer. Which means that they could see the silhouettes and make out who they were firing at. Most of the dead and injured were from the regular Army and wore their CCD uniforms which clearly are very distinct and different from what you see in the FLIR when looking at a local wearing baggy Shalwar Kamiz. The fact that not a single jawan or officer escaped (all were either killed or wounded) suggests that they were all individually targeted.

The ones firing at the troops know that Taliban never engage from built up positions and that too manned with HMGs that cannot be moved around easily. The higher HQ on the ISAF side had grid references for this position and someone who gave the go ahead knew the position was manned by the Pakistani Army.

All of these issues require some serious answers.

 

[genmirajborgza786]

^^ I agree, bonn would not have bring much change to the failed talks in turkey but i think may be Pakistan could have taken the opportunity to present his point of view over NATO raids and share our side of story with western world.

to the contrary i think this move by Pakistan to boycott the Bonn conference was the need of the hour ,as the U.S was looking for a meaningful exit strategy with certain goals aiming to secure its long term interests in the region known as the "end-game" thus raising the eyebrows of key important players like Russia,Iran,china & Saudi Arabia ( as it is the Saudis are getting quiet uncomfortable regarding the American policy in its surrounding region )Pakistan being a key major player in Afghanistan boycotting the event & considering all the key players specially Russia's & china's 'viz-a-viz' Iran's apprehensions of the long term U.S plans for the region has put the end-game in question & thus come to think of it, this has actually open & not closed the doors for Pakistan to get out of clutches of the American domain & has in fact opened the doors for the first time for some real meaningful dialog & understanding with key regional & global players like Russia & also neighboring Iran ( keeping in mind with the recent state visit by Pakistan to Russia & Iran indicates the possibility of some kind of understanding @ that time itself ) as understanding with china was always there in the very first place from the beginning thus the decision to boycott the Bonn conference by Pakistan can actually be beneficial to be honest this move by Pakistan if played well with all its cards executed properly with utmost care with farsighted intelligent diplomacy then it has all the necessity ingredients to be a Geo-Strategic political "Masterstroke" by Pakistan indeed .

 

[Jango]

The above description points out quite a few things. That FLIRs were used to go after each individual jawan and officer. Which means that they could see the silhouettes and make out who they were firing at. Most of the dead and injured were from the regular Army and wore their CCD uniforms which clearly are very distinct and different from what you see in the FLIR when looking at a local wearing baggy Shalwar Kamiz. The fact that not a single jawan or officer escaped (all were either killed or wounded) suggests that they were all individually targeted.

The ones firing at the troops know that Taliban never engage from built up positions and that too manned with HMGs that cannot be moved around easily. The higher HQ on the ISAF side had grid references for this position and someone who gave the go ahead knew the position was manned by the Pakistani Army.

All of these issues require some serious answers.

In addition to that, the Company HQ was on higher ground, a hill top you can say, and Taliban don't acquire those positions and make a well built structure, housing 40 odd soldiers.

Secondly, the area was cleared some time ago, and NATO were well informed about it, according to DG ISPR, so the argument that they thought that there were militants there is wrong.

Thirdly, a injrued jawan said that they saw 4 helis, and thought for a moment that it was the Taliban who had them. 4 helicopters are not usually sent against some taliban in a very limited area as being described.

Something is definitely amiss, and all the pakistani officials are saying that it was not a mistake.

 

[PATRIOT6]

this is bound to happen if US comes in, US treats friends worse than enemies

i am totally agreed by the statement

 

[VCheng]

...............
All of these issues require some serious answers.

The report comes out December 23rd.

 

[Jango]

The report comes out December 23rd.

The public may very well not see the exact story, are you really pinning all your hopes on it?

 

[PATRIOT6]

u know i think we can do nothing about this matter.

all we can do is to discuss and critize,so i guess for using this forum is informative
and we can add more information in our brain for further discussions.

nation is sleeping and black lambs are ruling the gov

as far as security is concrened its just a word "security" left in Pakistan

and armed forces are focusing on saving their fruits in the garden and trying to get rid of tresspassers.

thats happening in real.

cuz i tawk of defending directly and people giving rumors my own nation people from army

that pakistan will be ruined , will be finished in days or in hours , bla bla bla

what about those nations which steer the eyes of us like iran, and north korea , were they stronger in defence

this question i leave to all readers.

describe please.

 

[PATRIOT6]

u know i think we can do nothing about this matter.

all we can do is to discuss and critize,so i guess for using this forum is informative
and we can add more information in our brain for further discussions.

nation is sleeping and black lambs are ruling the gov

as far as security is concrened its just a word "security" left in Pakistan

and armed forces are focusing on saving their fruits in the garden and trying to get rid of tresspassers.

thats happening in real.

cuz i tawk of defending directly and people giving rumors my own nation people from army

that pakistan will be ruined , will be finished in days or in hours , bla bla bla

what about those nations which steer the eyes of us like iran, and north korea , were they stronger in defence

this question i leave to all readers.

describe please.

were they stronger in defence than pakistan????

 

[LeGenD]

Wrong buddy.

What happened when the USSR invaded Georgia in 2008? Or when North Korea sunk a South Korean battleship, and then bombarded a South Korean island? Why didn't America stand up for their allies?

The answer is nukes. America keeps huffing and puffing at North Korea but eventually they had to let North Korea get nukes, and couldn't stop them. They also warned Russia against invading Georgia (who was a close friend of the US), but Russia invaded anyway and America said nothing.

Pakistan has far more nukes than North Korea. America doesn't attack countries with nukes, we have seen this proven time and time again.

And even if we were to talk about purely "conventional" warfare, then look at what happened in Vietnam or Afghanistan. America still cannot control Afghanistan after ten years, now imagine how long it will take to bring down a regional nuclear power like Pakistan.

Situation is not so black and white.

North Korea is safe due to Chinese umbrella.

Contrary to popular belief, nuclear weapons do not scare USA. US covert war inside Pakistan is proof of this.

Yes, ties between two nations are currently strained. However, Pakistan does not represents a big threat to US interests in the region.

And there is no justification of how US is treating Pakistan just because the latter wants its interests be respected.

And don't use Vietnam as an example. Chinese experience in Vietnam has not been that brilliant either.

In addition, US military doctrine has evolved since the debacle of Vietnam. There is simply no comparison between US performance in Vietnam and in WOT. US has destroyed 3 nations by now in WOT alone.

Pakistani military establishment is indeed in a very tough situation. Retaliation is not an issue. Consequences actually are. US can easily economically strangulate Pakistan and render its military machine ineffective. If we bring nuclear weapons to the table, US will respond accordingly (keeping in mind its history). One of us eventually has to back down from this madness and Pakistan is on the right track.

The only lesson that Pakistan can learn from this mess is that it needs to stand on its feet and stop depending on others. This is the only salvation for Pakistan. Once the world will know that Pakistan is a strong and independent nation, it will refrain from treating Pakistan like a banana republic.

My 2 cents.

 

[Khan_patriot]

They just screwed with us once more to see what fight we still had left in us and we couldn't do **** about it proving that they can barge up here anytime......REVOLUTION IS WHAT WE NEED........

 

[r3alist]

i think pakistan is not invited..

The Bonn meeting is aimed at bringing together Western and regional leaders to map out a strategy for Afghanistan after the withdrawal of foreign combat forces in 2014

does pakistan has the will or the resources to take up any constructive position in afganistan..no !

india cannot even come close to doing anything constructive for hundreds of millions of its own citizens, you look around your cities and its full of *****, so look to yourself!


let me state the obvious, pakistan shares a pashtun population and big border with afghanistan, pak are CENTRAL to the situation, india is the impostor and only has a seat because its a mini US wannabe hoping us will make indians feeling of impotency disappear.

 

[Cent4]

The report comes out December 23rd.

what do you expect that what would be in that report....
Do you expect it to be fair, free from miss statements or lies.

what is wrong with the facts provided by DGMO and DG ISPR.

 

[Patriot]

Here is some back-peddling on the issue.

"U.S. suspects forces lured into Pakistan raid"
U.S. suspects forces lured into Pakistan raid - CBS News

Not that things cannot be confused, but it seems there was significant communication between the higher headquarters on both sides while the action was ongoing. Yet despite that, the strikes by Apaches and the AC-130 were carried out.

Well they know they cannot provide any proof of Pakistani Troops firing the first shot hence blaming Taliban now!It was deliberate Operation IMHO and we may get to know the motive of this op maybe after a year or so?

 

[blain2]

The report comes out December 23rd.

The report that comes out on the 23rd will be the ISAF side of the story, without any input, verification or diverging views of the Pakistani side. Mark my words, when this report comes out, it would be aired by various Western news outlets as if the fountain of truth has opened up and no amount of Pakistani protestations over the veracity of the report and its claims would be accepted.

It would have been better had this investigation been conducted jointly.

 

[PATRIOT6]

"US can easily economically choke Pakistan to death and render our military machine ineffective."

all right now i understand that army has less capabilities to go eye to eye with usa
but what econimocs you are talking about man.
have u seen pakistan for the last 2 decades , things never get worst economically????
and if u care of economy why dont military cathes the ministers who are fulling swiss banks,
our nation is illerrate mostly and they dont know the right one , which one they choose

two wrongs never make right, as far as friendship with usa is concrened on the basis of economics

its benificial for either politicians or else ISI

and average civilian has nothing to do with it , who bleeds everyday in pakistan ,

now do we still need foreign aids from united states????

I agree with u on some points like
we have to stand on our feet but we wont make unless we try it ,

WE EARN IT

I HOPE U UNDERSTAND