Ambala to station first squadron of MMRCA fighters

[Secur]

^

It is called Initial operational certification for a reason to certify that the aircraft is capable of flying ...

Actually it is ... IOC is for both air - worthiness and ability to perform basic tasks ... So if they are going for IOC-2 , it means the aircraft need to be certified again ...

Why would HAL need IOC-2 for validating radar guided missiles ? This thing comes after FOC and then upgradation to a certain level ( blocks , tranches etc ) in all the projects around the world ...

Initial operating capability or Initial operational capability (IOC) is the state achieved when a capability is available in its minimum usefully deployable form. The term is often used in government or military procurement.[1][2] Declaration of an initial operating capability may imply that the capability will be developed in the future, for example by modifications or adjustments to improve the system's performance, deployment of greater numbers of systems (perhaps of different types), or testing and training that permit wider application of the capability.[3] Once the capability is fully developed, Full operational capability may be declared.[4]This does not preclude additional users from obtaining the capability after FOC.


Insider sources in Pakistan have told you more than you can expect ISPR to ever reveal ...

 

[SamantK]

^

It is called Initial operational certification for a reason to certify that the aircraft is capable of flying ...

And who told you in IOC-1 it did not receive a check in the check box on the air-worthiness requirement?

Actually it is ... IOC is for both air - worthiness and ability to perform basic tasks ... So if they are going for IOC-2 , it means the aircraft need to be certified again ...

I want a solid piece of evidence to believe what you are saying, so far it has been just your word on just another forum.. Which I cannot believe, as Pakistanis do.

Why would HAL need IOC-2 for validating radar guided missiles ? This thing comes after FOC and then upgradation to a certain level ( blocks , tranches etc ) in all the projects around the world ...

According to livefist,---> Livefist: IAF Grudgingly Accepts Tejas IOC, Wants 83 Mk-IIs

"There are some areas where work still needs to be done. There are aspects that need to be improved. We have agreed to a list of concessions for IOC. But we are sure that ADA will fulfil those by June, with full operational clearance in a couple of years. The refinements we are looking for include wake penetration tests, all weather clearance, lightning clearance, etc. Some parameters have only been partly tested. After all, we've waited a long time for the Tejas. We don't want a partial platform. We want everything fully operational,"

So there is nothing about air-worthiness, not a hint now I want your proof, not your understanding or analysis.

Insider sources in Pakistan have told you more than you can expect ISPR to ever reveal ...

Yes that is true, ISPR cannot just reveal cooked up stories..

 

[Secur]

And who told you in IOC-1 it did not receive a check box on the air-worthiness requirement?

I want a solid piece of evidence to believe what you are saying, so far it has been just your word on just another forum.. Which I cannot believe, as Pakistanis do.

So there is nothing about air-worthiness, not a hint now I want your proof, not your understanding or analysis.

Yes that is true, ISPR cannot just reveal cooked up stories..

The fact that HAL is going for another IOC when the next step is FOC ... ... Obviously means the Tejas needs to be certified again and that tells you what ? ...

What solid piece of evidence ? Read up the Wiki part quoted again to understand what I am saying ... IOC is a certification that the aircraft is capable of minimum usefull taks

Just because you aren't updated doesn't mean no one else is ... That part was before your beloved HAL decided to go for second IOC ... Check the dates ...

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/...laims-Tejas-inducted/articleshow/13421664.cms

But it became clear later that Tejas had only achieved partial IOC. It would have to be followed by IOC-II to certify the fighter was fully airworthy. Moreover, it would require the final operational clearance (FOC), with integration of all weapons and other systems, before it could be deemed combat-worthy.


Nah , it just doesn't like naked-parade of its equipment and reveals its capabilities when the time comes , operates in total radio silence ... Until then rely on insiders with ...

 

[Ping]

I didn't ... You made that claim in your first post here ... Have a look at it again !

So why should I prove anything ? ... Yes , it is integrating other missiles for different mission profiles and still cant get the basic ones ... What an absurd logic !

BVR missile is not a basic missile dumbass twit. It is the most complex missile fired by an aircraft. Anti-radiation missiles can be fired without any radar. BVR missiles cannot because it requires requires jam proof datalink updates from the Radar, and from the missile to the radar, if it is a 2way data link.

And for the nth time
I don't have to prove nothing because all fighters are born without BVR capability. JFT has always been BVR-less since its birth. If you are suddenly saying JF-17s in operational squadrons can fire BVR missiles now, you are the one who should prove this new capability.

 

[Secur]

BVR missile is not a basic missile dumbass twit. It is the most complex missile fired by an aircraft. Anti-radiation missiles can be fired without any radar. BVR missiles cannot because it requires requires jam proof datalink updates from the Radar, and from the missile to the radar, if it is a 2way data link.

Yes it isn't ... Which is the thing I have saying all along ... If PAC has now inducted more advanced missile such as MAR-1 then only an idiot in denial mode would believe that JFT is BVR-less ... Were the pictures not enough or is it usual denial of facts ?

Yes you have to , you made that claim in the first place ... I didn't say anything except replying in response to you ... The burden of proof is still upon you

6: Their JF-17s still hasn't achieved BVR capability. JF-17s still don't have Helmet Mounted Sight(HMS).

Where's the prove , kid ?

 

[SamantK]

The fact that HAL is going for another IOC when the next step is FOC ... ... Obviously means the Tejas needs to be certified again and that tells you what ? ...

That tells me jack sh!t, what does it tell you air-worthiness? How so?
And from all the sources it does not mean it needs re-certification.. it mean there are some more parameters which have to be fulfilled.. There is a difference, can you see that?

What solid piece of evidence ? Read up the Wiki part quoted again to understand what I am saying ... IOC is a certification that the aircraft is capable of minimum usefull taks

Yes and it is yet to fire a radar guided missile as I said which is one of the major requirement for IOC to complete..

Just because you aren't updated doesn't mean no one else is ... That part was before your beloved HAL decided to go for second IOC ... Check the dates ...

LCA Tejas IOC-2 by year end | Defence

No, right at the time of IOC in January it was known there will be a IOC 2

Read this now

Bangalore: India's Light Combat Aircraft (LCA) Tejas should have been ideally in the hands of Indian Air Force (IAF) pilots by now as part of the much-awaited user trials. But, the programme has once again lived up to its now-famous reputation of being light, but late. It was exactly on January 10 last year, a sulking IAF gave the Initial Operational Clearance (IOC) to Tejas with riders longer than the cables inside the aircraft! Unhappy with the platform, the IAF chose to grant Tejas only IOC-1 status, and wanted all pending concerns thrashed out.

Tarmak007 -- A bold blog on Indian defence: A YEAR AFTER TEJAS IOC-1: Sulking IAF waits for India's light, but late fighter | LSP-7 first flight in 2 weeks(!!): ADA | Delays genuine: HAL

Nah , it just doesn't like naked-parade of its equipment and reveals its capabilities when the time comes , operates in total radio silence ... Until then rely on insiders with ...

Not from what we have seen, parading nuclear weapons, which sadly were not enough to deter India (as can be understood from Pakistan's activity)..

 

[Secur]

That tells me jack sh!t, what does it tell you air-worthiness? How so?
And from all the sources it does not mean it needs re-certification.. it mean there are some more parameters which have to be fulfilled.. There is a difference, can you see that?

Yes and it is yet to fire a radar guided missile as I said which is one of the major requirement for IOC to complete..

No, right at the time of IOC in January it was known there will be a IOC 2

Read this now



Tarmak007 -- A bold blog on Indian defence: A YEAR AFTER TEJAS IOC-1: Sulking IAF waits for India's light, but late fighter | LSP-7 first flight in 2 weeks(!!): ADA | Delays genuine: HAL

Of course since you do not understand jack **** ... IOC is for air-worthiness , the next thing is FOC , but when an aircraft requires IOC-2 it tells a whole different story ! What parameters are set for IOC-2 ? That could have been achieved in FOC if there was some thing like that but as I have proved with evidence , you are getting recertification

Got nothing to do with radar guided missile or anything ... That could have come with FOC ... Better not speculate about things of which you have 0 knowledge ...

Really ? Right at the time when the Tejas got first IOC and Indians were jumping up and down , it was known it would need to be re certified again ... Made my day ! A blog is wonderful too when I posted your favorite TOI link

Apparently it has , three times at the last count

 

[Ping]

Yes it isn't ... Which is the thing I have saying all along ... If PAC has now inducted more advanced missile such as MAR-1 then only an idiot in denial mode would believe that JFT is BVR-less ... Were the pictures not enough or is it usual denial of facts ?

Yes you have to , you made that claim in the first place ... I didn't say anything except replying in response to you ... The burden of proof is still upon you



Where's the prove , kid ?

You moron, Anti-radiation missiles are just sniffer missiles. once launched they have no business with the aircraft. BVR missiles needs to have course guidance corrections. Anti radiation missiles are not "more advanced" than Air-Air BVR missiles.

And again:
I don't have to prove nothing because all fighters are born without BVR capability. JFT has always been BVR-less since its birth. If you are suddenly saying JF-17s in operational squadrons can fire BVR missiles now, you are the one who should prove this new capability.


I say first that there are no humans living on mars, because all humans are native of earth not mars. But when a brainless twit comes along and says to me to prove that there are no humans on mars, I say back to him to prove that there are humans on Mars now with evidence, because all Humans are native of earth not mars, and that is the obvious position, while his position is the unnatural one so it is he who has to prove his unnatural position which he claims has changed with time. He doesn't understand simple logic so I kindly ask him to pull out a gun and blow his brains out because he has an IQ of a Orangutan, and he is wasting earth's oxygen.

See the resemblance? I bet you can't.

 

[SamantK]

Of course since you do not understand jack **** ... IOC is for air-worthiness , the next thing is FOC , but when an aircraft requires IOC-2 it tells a whole different story ! What parameters are set for IOC-2 ? That could have been achieved in FOC if there was some thing like that but as I have proved with evidence , you are getting recertification

IOC is not just for air worthiness, you cannot really understand even that much.. Also the parameters for IOC2 was pointed out in the Livefist article which you have not read. And what evidence apart from a link about the trial runs for IOC-2 have you provided?

Got nothing to do with radar guided missile or anything ... That could have come with FOC ... Better not speculate about things of which you have 0 knowledge ...

FOC it has to be a reliable capability, with IOC it is just integrated and tested. If you think I am wrong, tell me where you have that knowledge..

Really ? Right at the time when the Tejas got first IOC and Indians were jumping up and down , it was known it would need to be re certified again ... Made my day ! A blog is wonderful too when I posted your favorite TOI link

Yes, in the tarmak link it was written, if you read, that it gave IOC with riders meaning it will need to achieve them i.e IOC-2.. Are you so dumb to not get it?

Apparently it has , three times at the last count

You cannot understand my statement , no wonder your army is sucking Pakistan dry of money right under your nose..

 

[Secur]

You moron, Anti-radiation missiles are just sniffer missiles. once launched they have no business with the aircraft. BVR missiles needs to have course guidance corrections. Anti radiation missiles are not "more advanced" than Air-Air BVR missiles.

So , Pakistan went to Brazil first before inducting the missile the entire programme was initiated for ? Cool theory , kid ... But can you back it up with some prove ? ... Something along the lines of " JFT if BVR-less " as you claimed without knowing jack **** and without checking JFT's info pool ...

IOC is not just for air worthiness, you cannot really understand even that much.. Also the parameters for IOC2 was pointed out in the Livefist article which you have not read. And what evidence apart from a link about the trial runs for IOC-2 have you provided?

Yes , It is for basic capabilities and thus air worthiness ... I can understand more than you fan boys can ... Parameters for IOC-2 were set when IOC-1 couldn't get the job done hence the recertification What evidence do I need to provide ? You asked for a credible link and you got it with the relevant parts marked in Italic ...

 

[Ping]

So , Pakistan went to Brazil first before inducting the missile the entire programme was initiated for ? Cool theory , kid ... But can you back it up with some prove ? ... Something along the lines of " JFT if BVR-less " as you claimed without knowing jack **** and without checking JFT's info pool ...

Pakistan didn't go to brazil to induct Air-Air weapons, it is just an anti-radiation missile.
it is common practice to induct easier weapons first then move on to more sophisticated weapons which will take time to induct.

JFT is not an air superiority fighter to get inducted with Air-Air missiles first. It is a Jack-of-all-trades master-of-none fighter, or in other words, an average Multirole cheap fighter.

 

[Secur]

Pakistan didn't go to brazil to induct Air-Air weapons, it is just an anti-radiation missile. it is common practice to induct easier weapons first then move on to more sophisticated weapons which will take time to induct.

More logical that PAC would have first completed things that the fighter was designed for before going to purchase a brand new missile from Brazil which surely wasn't as easy to induct like you said ... Post the prove that they haven't integrated SD-10 and then talk about anything else ... ... I am yet to see a BVR-less JFT when the pics prove otherwise ...

 

[SamantK]

Yes , It is for basic capabilities and thus air worthiness ... I can understand more than you fan boys can ... Parameters for IOC-2 were set when IOC-1 couldn't get the job done hence the recertification What evidence do I need to provide ? You asked for a credible link and you got it with the relevant parts marked in Italic ...

Think all you want but you are wrong.. re-certification is if something fails.. You need some more english lessons..

 

[Secur]

Think all you want but you are wrong.. re-certification is if something fails.. You need some more english lessons..

UPA report card claims Tejas inducted - The Times of India

But it became clear later that Tejas had only achieved partial IOC. It would have to be followed by IOC-II to certify the fighter was fully airworthy. Moreover, it would require the final operational clearance (FOC), with integration of all weapons and other systems, before it could be deemed combat-worthy.


And now it has been delayed to 2015 !

 

[SamantK]

More logical that PAC would have first completed things that the fighter was designed for before going to purchase a brand new missile from Brazil which surely wasn't as easy to induct like you said ... Post the prove that they haven't integrated SD-10 and then talk about anything else ... ... I am yet to see a BVR-less JFT when the pics prove otherwise ...

Attaching the missile to the plane does not mean it can fire them, for all we care they can be dummy missile..

UPA report card claims Tejas inducted - The Times of India

But it became clear later that Tejas had only achieved partial IOC. It would have to be followed by IOC-II to certify the fighter was fully airworthy. Moreover, it would require the final operational clearance (FOC), with integration of all weapons and other systems, before it could be deemed combat-worthy.


And now it has been delayed to 2015 !

So what if it is delayed, we will start getting MMRCA by then..