Ambala to station first squadron of MMRCA fighters

[chauvunist]

Yeah i can see who are toddlers here....

haha one of your colleague is trying to show he knows more about the plane than our vice marshal and the list goes on....

if you here for serious discussion than try accept the facts and give up your fanboyism and blind jignoism....

 

[Bratva]

This is not a versus thread. DOn't make it into one.

First, it is about an aircraft that is in a different league.

Second, let's not bring apples to oranges.

A non operational vs operational aircraft. Yeah it's a insult to JF-17 if it is compared with LCA.

 

[Ping]

1) Reported range of 350 km which is enough to take out all your forward bases ... Babur is another story and we have other fine missiles in the inventory so as I say it goes both ways and doesn't depend on strategic depth as you said ... You are again assuming something along the lines of 1 missile / base or something when the strategy is to fire a salvo ! I think we can use ballistic missiles in your case , since you are not that far away and our guidance systems are pretty good ...

2) Why not research , dear ? There's a thread in the Pakistan Strategic Forces section which can enlighten you that Pakistan has signed deal with China for usage of both civilian and military grade Beidou ...

3) Yes , you have been ... Provide me a source for the engine part ... The third squadron is to be raised earlier next year and who knows it will be a Block-2 ...

4) I accept but PAF too has better force multipliers to tackle that situation ... We operate almost 8 AWACS , an overkill for the border with India that we need to defend ... So cant they warn of impending danger ?

5) Guesses need not be answered ... " Maybe they will provide data " as you say ... Tell me when they do ...

6) Ignorance is bliss for you guys ! JFT has confirmed integration of MAR-1 and you are talking about BVR capability - height of ignorance ! Why do not you just visit the JFT info pool in this very forum and enlighten yourself ? Maybe , find a photo of JFT when it last participated in an Farnborough air show and activate your grey matter ...

7) Yes , but didn't I already tell you that Pakistani defense purchases aren't made in the same manner as yours ? Rest assured , the FC -20 will be up guarding our skies when you get the delivery of first aircraft which I must remind you that the deal hasn't been signed yet ...

8) Believe what you want to believe

10) I just told you ... Yes , PLAAF was interested in the JFT and Pakistani media was reporting that but to say that PAF bought JFT assuming just that the PLAAF would follow suit is absurd ... Pakistan pursued the project for its own aims and the main objective of the programme was to kick start our aeronautics industry and replacement of third Gen aircrafts in the inventory and it has been successful thus far ... I fail to understand what further weapons need be integrated ? Post this question in the JFT thread and you can get a response ...



Agreed ... The operational J-10 fact should have done the trick for you instead of arguing needlessly when I said that it is flying ...

1: Ofcourse the forwards bases are in its range, but what about Pune, Gwalior and other bases in the interior. This is what strategic depth means, which PAF lacks. Ballistic missiles cannot be used for pin point attacks. period. If you think otherwise then i have to say you are pretty ignorant.

2: I'm not disputing whether Pakistan will have it or not, it will have it afterall the chinese will
give it to you. But the fact is AS OF NOW THERE IS NO BEIDOU IN THE SUBCONTINENT!!!

3: Source: Take-off Magazine : RD-33: output on the rise
Finally, the RD-93, a RD-33 derivative with the low-mounted accessory gearbox, is exported to China to fit FC-1 (JF-17) light single-engine fighters. The deal for 100 RD-93s with an option for 400 more was clinched in April 2005. The first 15 engines were assembled by Klimov, and Chernyshev has handled the rest of the deliveries since 2006. The contract is half-complete, and the deliveries shall resume as soon as the customer submits its request.
So no Block-2!

4: I accept what you said now, but that was not the original argument. original argument was incompatibility.

5: You have to start a war for that to know. But the fact is, they have stated that it will not be allowed to be used against India.

6: Anti-radiation missiles are not BVRs. I'm talking about Air-Air BVRs. Where is the proof? There was a huge publicity campaign when JF-17 fired PL-5. Why not the same for SD-10??? Don't post pics of JF-17 prototypes carrying dummy SD-10s, gimme a real proof.

Proof no 1: Someone in PAF coming on record saying SD-10 is integrated and operational in PAF. The Chinese Kanwa article only said it is under testing, not operational deployment.

Proof no 2: Pics of JF-17s in operational squadrons with pics of SD-10s on their wings.

Proof no 3: Pakistan has obtained delivery of SD-10. No about-to-be-signed-deal or under-evaluation bullshit. "PAKISTAN HAS TAKEN DELIVERY OF XX NUMBER OF SD-10 MISSILES". I need that. or I don't even want any numbers, just delivery is enough.

Once you give one of these 3 proofs no Indian or any neutral observer will question you. I need links!!!! Cold hard links from reputable sources!!

7: I've been hearing the same thing from 2005, but nothing concrete has materialized. When there is such a huge delay with not even a whisper it means PAF has lost interest due to either money or capability problems in the platform. Well whatever be the case, fact now is FC-20 has faded into the dark, maybe due to funding problems or capability problems in the fighter.

10: When I said Pakistan news reports, I meant the Pakistan news reports quoting PAF personnel who were claiming PLAAF would order 300 jets. PAF was very confident that China would induct this fighter, but they didnt.

 

[foxbat]

Don't mean to spoil the fan boy party but i'm sure you have either heard or read about the above incident.....just like to add that the F-7s involved were the "PG" version which Pakistan acquired in the middle of 2002 hostilities with India and the Mirages were of "ROSE-III" standards.......
The reason i pointed this out is that these weapon systems were sent to confront IAF aircraft....not exactly for WVR combat. !!!

We have read about the above incidents mostly in your posts but havent seen any credible links about it so to say..

 

[Bratva]

1: Ofcourse the forwards bases are in its range, but what about Pune, Gwalior and other bases in the interior. This is what strategic depth means, which PAF lacks. Ballistic missiles cannot be used for pin point attacks. period. If you think otherwise then i have to say you are pretty ignorant.

2: I'm not disputing whether Pakistan will have it or not, it will have it afterall the chinese will
give it to you. But the fact is AS OF NOW THERE IS NO BEIDOU IN THE SUBCONTINENT!!!

3: Source: Take-off Magazine : RD-33: output on the rise
Finally, the RD-93, a RD-33 derivative with the low-mounted accessory gearbox, is exported to China to fit FC-1 (JF-17) light single-engine fighters. The deal for 100 RD-93s with an option for 400 more was clinched in April 2005. The first 15 engines were assembled by Klimov, and Chernyshev has handled the rest of the deliveries since 2006. The contract is half-complete, and the deliveries shall resume as soon as the customer submits its request.

4: I accept what you said now, but that was not the original argument. original argument was incompatibility.

5: You have to start a war for that to know. But the fact is, they have stated that it will not be allowed to be used against India.

6: Anti-radiation missiles are not BVRs. I'm talking about BVRs. Where is the proof? There was a huge publicity campaign when JF-17 fired PL-5. Why not the same for SD-10??? Don't post pics of JF-17 prototypes carrying dummy SD-10s, gimme a real proof.

Proof no 1: Someone in PAF coming on record saying SD-10 is integrated and operational in PAF. The Chinese Kanwa article only said it is under testing, not operational deployment.

Proof no 2: Pics of JF-17s in operational squadrons with pics of SD-10s on their wings.

Proof no 3: Pakistan has obtained delivery of SD-10. No about to be signed deal, evaluation bullshit. PAKISTAN HAS TAKEN DELIVERY OF XX NUMBER OF SD-10 MISSILES. I need that.

Once you give one of these 3 proofs no Indian or any neutral observer will question you. I need links!!!! Cold hard links from reputable sources!!

7: I've been hearing the same thing from 2005, but nothing concrete has materialized. When there is such a huge delay with not even a whisper it means PAF has lost interest due to either money or capability problems in the platform. Well whatever be the case, fact now is FC-20 has faded into the dark, maybe due to funding problems or capability problems in the fighter.

10: When I said Pakistan news reports, I meant the Pakistan news reports quoting PAF personnel who were claiming PLAAF would order 300 jets. PAF was very confident that China would induct this fighter, but they didnt.

Where it is said in kanwa article it is under testing. PAF JF-17 Director Air vice marshal is more reputable than you fanboys.

 

[SamantK]

Please enlighten us if our Generals claimed a defense capability and later it was turned out to be fake? and other than that is totally offtopic and is no way is related to topic.

Not capability the whole outcome of war..

 

[Bratva]

Airforce Daily, November 2011 Issue.....Alan Warnes Speaks, again....



"Tasked with the privilege of flying the JF-17s in the flying display was Wg Cdr Ronald, a Flight Commander from 26 Squadron, supported by Wg Cdr Rashid (Flight Commander from 16 Squadron) who flew on Tuesday 15th. Both wore their new ‘Thunder Solo Display’ patch proudly on their flying suits – having seen so many other display pilots at Izmir in June wearing their own official insignias. The eight-minute solo display saw the Thunder being put through its paces, with the pilot pulling an impressive 8G during some of the manoeuvres that included a vertical roll. Wg Cdr Ronald, who flew the display four times, is a former F-16 pilot who has been with JF-17s for a year-and-a -half. His unit, 26 Squadron at Peshawar, is tasked with training pilots. When compared to the F-16, Wg Cdr Ronald says ‘the JF-17 does not lose speed in the turn as the F-16 does’.

According to an F-16 engineer I spoke to, this is attributed to the curved Leading Edge Roots in front of the wings. It must have been tough at times for both the pilots after the news filtered back to Dubai on the third day of the show that one of their colle gues, Sqn Ldr Hussain, had been killed while flying a Thunder in Pakistan. The JF-17 community is relatively young but very
close and Sqn Ldr Hussain was a senior member who had served with 26 Squadron before being posted to 16 Squadron earlier this year.


Of the three JF-17s, looking very smart in their 16 Squadron ‘Black Panther’ The aircraft makes a sharp turn during the display markings on the tail and fuel tanks, two were used for the flying display, one acting as a spare (11-128) for the other (11-134); while the other example (11-130) resided in the static display, with a plethora of new weapons that are operational on the jet, including the SD-10 Beyond Visual Range air-to-air missile, PL-5EII medium range air to air missile, WD-7 targeting pod, LT-2 1,000lb (454kg) laser guided bomb, C-802 anti-shipping missile and LS-6 Extended Range 1,000lb (454kg) bomb – converted from a dumb bomb into a ‘smart guided missile’ courtesy of a guidance kit which boosts its range to around 40 miles (60kms).
To date, 38 of the 42 JF-17 Block 1s have been delivered – with the last due to be handed over by March/April 2012. Production of the first of 50 Block 2s will commence almost immediately and run up to December 2015. This latest, more capable batch will, according to Air Marshal Rao, boast ‘aircraft with more air-to-air capability, enhanced avionics, air to air refuelling and a two-seat version’. The Block 3s are expected to begin rolling off the production line from 2016 onwards and will undoubtedly be enhanced further, possibly with new datalink systems, weapons and a Chinese engine.



To all members, this must end the debate whether SD-10 and other weapons operational on the 1st batch or not.

Credit goes to our fellow member, Tempest 11

!!!!!!!!!!

Kanwa had an interview with PAF's General Javaid Ahmed, during which he stated that:

- In 2012, they will be bring out the JF17 Blk 2. The main improvements are the addition of IRF, the development of a twin seat version, adding datalink and development of an export version JF17.
- happy with the performance of the KJL7, so no immediate plans to switch to AESA (KJL7 specs: detection range for fighter sized target 130km; can track 16 targets and engage 2 at the same time; have SAR mapping capability)
- The Chinese indigenous engine is currently undergoing flight testing and may be a while before it is fitted to a JF17
- In 2011 the JF17 test fired: 1 x C802 (hit a seaborne target 90km away, max range 180km); 2 x LS-6 bombs, one is a 500kg GPS guided weapon with 60km range and CEP of 15m, the other was a 250kg laser/IIR+GPS guided weapon with a range of 65km and CEP of 5.3-7.5m; SD10 and other weapons.

translation credits -Plawolf

Over and out and love to those who still insist on HARD VISUAL proof.

 

[Bratva]

Not capability the whole outcome of war..

Yup i knew what you had in mind, thank you for spilling it out.

 

[SamantK]

Yup i knew what you had in mind, thank you for spilling it out.

If you knew why ask? I certainly did not want to derail this thread and hence even accepted your claim of weapons. but my POV is different..

 

[Ping]

!!!!!!!!!! Over and out and love to those who still insist on HARD VISUAL proof.

Link for the Issue!! Where is the link?? I hope its a reputable source.

And second.. can't you read properly?
"In 2011 the JF17 test fired: 1 x C802 (hit a seaborne target 90km away, max range 180km); 2 x LS-6 bombs, one is a 500kg GPS guided weapon with 60km range and CEP of 15m, the other was a 250kg laser/IIR+GPS guided weapon with a range of 65km and CEP of 5.3-7.5m; SD10 and other weapons."

This is what I've been saying from the very beginning, it is still under testing!

 

[Bratva]

Link for the Issue!! Where is the link?? I hope its a reputable source.

And second.. can't you read properly?
"In 2011 the JF17 test fired: 1 x C802 (hit a seaborne target 90km away, max range 180km); 2 x LS-6 bombs, one is a 500kg GPS guided weapon with 60km range and CEP of 15m, the other was a 250kg laser/IIR+GPS guided weapon with a range of 65km and CEP of 5.3-7.5m; SD10 and other weapons."

This is what I said, it is still under testing! You just proved my point. Thanks.

SD-10 B is under testing now since last year by PAF and link? man there is google.com for you people. go search on google you will surely find the link of these issues.

Test fire to check different parameters of missiles and aerodynamics of aircraft? What's th e great deal? Kiddo we are discussing here weather JF-17 can fire a Jf-17 or not. Let Big boys talk.

 

[peep]

A non operational vs operational aircraft. Yeah it's a insult to JF-17 if it is compared with LCA.

Do you read you illiterate pakistani ? The thread is about MMRCA not LCA

 

[Ping]

He didn't say SD-10B, he said SD-10. Are you ppl blind? What is wrong with you?

Gimme the link. Google does not return links to bogus stuff. sorry.

 

[Bratva]

He didn't say SD-10B, he said SD-10. Are you ppl blind? What is wrong with you?

Gimme the link. Google does not return links to bogus stuff. sorry.

Can't argue with the fool he will surely bring you down to his level. Yup it's bogus, yeahhhh you caught me, now buz off if you done trolling.

and For SD-10B. Than it's an insider news by Pshamim and Huitong of SDF. Another homework for you to know the stature of these peoples. A sane person will surely asks if this is from magazine than how come i find this from internet without paying for subscription but hey you are indian, you use your brain only to argue but not to find facts and figures.!


And another reminder for you, It's SD-10 A that pakistan tested upto 2010. How? See the farnbourh pictures and Dubai airshow pictures where SD-10 A is always shown with JF-17!

 

[Ping]

Can't argue with the fool he will surely bring you down to his level. Yup it's bogus, yeahhhh you caught me, now buz off if you done trolling.

and For SD-10B. Than it's an insider news by Pshamim and Huitong of SDF. Another homework for you to know the stature of these peoples. A sane person will surely asks if this is from magazine than how come i find this from internet without paying for subscription but hey you are indian, you use your brain only to argue but not to find facts and figures.!


And another reminder for you, It's SD-10 A that pakistan tested upto 2010. How? See the farnbourh pictures and Dubai airshow pictures where SD-10 A is always shown with JF-17!

I don't need insider Aunty sources. Gimme a fuuucking source fanboy!! You're the one without any proper source and you are saying I'm a fanboy? Do you know even the definition of a fanboy, fanboy? Even I can type some faked shyt and claim its from a magazine.

From Pakistani project director, the source has now come down to forum level members.