Amazing footages of the Torkham Skirmish

[SQ8]

Sorry for late reply and note that my laptop is broke down and in three to four days I will have that and then I will post those Hadiths immediately

Please do. I would hope you can provide the references to those Hadiaths as well; number of people who reported it and in what context. Then we will have to correlate those claims with the Quran since no Hadiath can counter it.

 

[araz]

1st thing , As per Sharea during a fitna we are supposed to follow the commands of the Caliph, even if he is fighting against the angels-----

2nd thing, Imam Hussain R.A should have kept quiet and told the Ummah who am I R.A to hate yazeed------is this thing you are trying to imply?

As to the first,PA did respond in defence which is the maximum allowed. You started this debate stating we should take over Kabul and that would have been excessive and unwise in the extreme for reasons which you have not considered but should look into the fate of mkst of the occupiers of Afghanistan before you respond again. Allah knows better but let Him izza wa jal, be the judge between the killer and the killed muslim. Also your logic regarding following the khalifa blindly makes Hussain RA and also Abdullah ibn Zubair RA culpable as they both took up arms against the established khalifa. What do you say to that?
As to Hussain RA,a lot of sahaba including ibn Umar RA, Abdullah ibn ZubairRA, and even Ibn AbbasRA advised him against the journey to kufa. The later came all the way from Madinah to talk to him. You should find the time to go and read about their conversation to educate yourself as it is recorded in history and is an amazing insight into the iman of the Sahaba and the sagacity of Ibn Abbas RA. The fact that Hussain RA chose to follow his own thinking was upto his own ijtehad and Allah knows best. I am not worth the dust of the feet of ibn Ali RA who is one of my forefathers to be able to or even dare to comment. When one of our mothers of all the believers heard of thhe murder of Hussain RA she cried and said " ala la'an Allaho alaz Zalimeen". Notice she did not name anyone inspite of the names of the culprits being known.
The fact still remains that the matter unfurled at the Pak Afghan border was an unsavoury one and one should not deride a fellow muslim no matter how misguided. PA did just enough to defend itself and its conduct falls within the rights of self defence which it is allowed to.
Incidentally Hussain RA was not the only member of Ahle bait who fell prey to the treachery of the people of Kufaa. One of his grand children Rahimahu Allah tried as well( I forget the name) to initiate a mutiny with the help of the Kufans was betrayed just like Hussain RA and brutally murdered. Abdullah ibn Zubair RA was also killed in Madina by Hajjaj in a most brutal manner and this incidence and the farce that went on with it is one of the blackest chapter in the history of early islam.
A

 

[Mentee]

As to the first,PA did respond in defence which is the maximum allowed. Allah knows better but let him be the judge between the killer and the killed muslim. Also your logic regarding following the khalifa blindly makes Hussain RA culpable and also Abdullah ibn Zubair RA culpable as they both took up arms against the established khalifa. What do you say to that?
As to Hussain RA,a lot of sahaba including ibn Umar RA, Abdullah ibn ZubairRA, and even Ibn AbbasRA advised him against the journey to kufa. The later came all the way from Madinah to talk to him. You should find the time to go and read about their conversation to educate yourself as it is recorded in history and is an amazing insight into the iman of the Sahaba and the sagacity of Ibn Abbas RA. The fact that Hussain RA chose to follow his iman is upto his own ijtehad and Allah knows best. I am not worth the dust of the feet of ibn Ali RA who is one of my fore fathers to be able to comment.
The fact still remains that the matter is a unsavoury one and one should not deride a fellow muslim no matter how misguided. PAdid just enough to defend itself and its conduct falls within the rights of self defence which it is allowed to. Incidentally Hussain RA was not the only member of Ahle bait who fellprey to the treachery of the people of Kufaa. One of his grand children Rahimahu Allah tried as well( I forget the name) to stir a mutiny with the help of the Kufans was betrayed just like Hussain RA and brytally murdered. Abdullah ibn Abbas RA was also killed in Madina by Hajjaj in a most brutal manner and this incidence and the farce that went on with it is one of the blackest chapter in the history of early islam.
A

Imam Hussein R.A never started his journey with the intent to fight yazeed He was invited by the kufans neither did they took arms------ until after the the incident of Karbala happened

2nd no Muslim is allowed to raise weapons against the Muslim caliph until or unless he overtly put a ban on any of the 5 Pillars of Islam and this criteria fits on yazeed

3rd yazeed was made king in violation of the treaty between Caliph Hassan and Muaveyah

Regarding that part of your post that I should read yazewd is a khalifa naozbILLAH he was a tyrant king sultan whatever but not a caliph under any interpretation of Islamic Traditions
As per The Hadith Imam Hassan R.A was the Last of the Caliphs

: The Prophet (peace be upon him) said, The Caliphate will remain after me for thirty years, then it will change into a cruel monarchy. Thus, Mu`awiyah said after thirty years had passed, "I am the first of the kings."
(Extracted from the treatise written by Abu Zayd Al-Qayrawany, vol. 1, p. 96).

What is the interpretation of this Hadith?

A: This Hadith was related by Imam Ahmad in "Al-Musnad", Al-Hakim in "Al-Mustadrak", Abu Ya'ly in "Al-Musnad", ibn Hibban in his Sahih (authentic) Book of Hadith, and Al-Tirmidhy in his " (Sunan).

One of his grand children Rahimahu Allah tried as well( I forget the name) to stir a mutiny

Hazrat Zaid ibn Ali

P.S its not a Sunni forte to chant katil bhi raziAllah or maktool b RaziAllah

 

[araz]

Imam Hussein R.A never started his journey with the intent to fight yazeed He was invited by the kufans neither did they took arms------ until after the the incident of Karbala happened

2nd no Muslim is allowed to raise weapons against the Muslim caliph until or unless he overtly put a ban on any of the 5 Pillars of Islam and this criteria fits on yazeed

3rd yazeed was made king in violation of the treaty between Caliph Hassan and Muaveyah

Regarding that part of your post that I should read yazewd is a khalifa naozbILLAH he was a tyrant king sultan whatever but not a caliph under any interpretation of Islamic Traditions
As per The Hadith Imam Hassan R.A was the Last of the Caliphs

: The Prophet (peace be upon him) said, The Caliphate will remain after me for thirty years, then it will change into a cruel monarchy. Thus, Mu`awiyah said after thirty years had passed, "I am the first of the kings."
(Extracted from the treatise written by Abu Zayd Al-Qayrawany, vol. 1, p. 96).

What is the interpretation of this Hadith?

A: This Hadith was related by Imam Ahmad in "Al-Musnad", Al-Hakim in "Al-Mustadrak", Abu Ya'ly in "Al-Musnad", ibn Hibban in his Sahih (authentic) Book of Hadith, and Al-Tirmidhy in his " (Sunan).


Hazrat Zaid ibn Ali

P.S its not a Sunni forte to chant katil bhi raziAllah or maktool b RaziAllah

All you are writing is contrary to the gist of the original point of debate. Secondly you have picked up on a tertiary point to sooth your ego without actually reading the post and responding to it.
Khalifa is a generic term for ruler of the muslims of the time and was established and to equate that with the Rashiddon khulafaa is an idiocy of the highest order . In this context whether you believe that Yazid was a khalifa or not is not only irrelevant but contrary to millions of muslims who took bayyaa at his hands irrespective of his validity or personal character. You have not responded to the main points raised. Thank you for reminding me of the name of my slain forefather Rahimahu Allah which I mentioned as a side point. However the debate pertains to the validity of PA taking over Kabul in response to a skirmish at the border which is unacceptable and not allowed. I dont have any qualms about Yazid not being a good ruler or otherwise as it is a secondary point and irrelevant to our debate. However as a matter of principal the decision of Hussain RA was a matter of his own ijtehad and a lot of jaiyyad sahaba tried to dissuade him even though some of them were against the rule of Yazid as we find out in the take over of Madinah bu ibn Zubair RA.
Lastly your PS message remains unclear and if you think it is relevant should kindly elaborate. If it is something on which I am wrong I will correct myself and you will get tha hasanaat for it.
A

 

[Mentee]

You have not responded to the main points raised.

I conveyed my message...

Thank you for reminding me of the name of my slain forefather Rahimahu

Iam amazed at this fact you didn't know...

However as a matter of principal the decision of Hussain RA was a matter of his own ijtehad and a lot of jaiyyad sahaba

Guided by the principles of Sharea.....

Lastly your PS message remains unclear and if you think it is relevant should kindly elaborate. If it is something on which I am wrong I will correct myself and you will get tha hasanaat for it.

As a Sunni I cannot keep mum and praise the killer and his Victim simultaneously God bless you...

Howevdr the debate pertains to the validity of PA taking over Kabul in response to a skirmish at the border which is unacceptable and not

Ho so? When they have been doing this in the past why can't we....mean, we didn't start this mess just defending ourselves from a traitorous lot

 

[araz]

I conveyed my message...



Iam amazed at this fact you didn't know...



Guided by the principles of Sharea.....



As a Sunni I cannot keep mum and praise the killer and his Victim simultaneously God bless you...

You have conveyed nothing my friend. Your posts are clearly side tracking as I have pointed it out.
As to the name of Zaid Ibn Ali Rahimahu Allah I had merely forgotten as I am getting on a bit and tend to forget. I also thanked you for reminding me.
All ijtehad is done in accordance with your understanding of the Quran and the sunnah. As such it is open to interpretatoon and questioning. However this again is a side point. As I have already mentioned ibn Abbas was against the decision and you should really read about his conversation with Hussain RA. So was his interpretation wrong?No little brother people make choices with the best of intentions and right or wrong is upto Allah Subhanahu wa Ta alaah to judge.
And may Allah guide you too and increase you in knowledge and khair Ameen.
MaAsSalam.

 

[Mentee]

You have conveyed nothing my friend. Your posts are clearly side tracking as I have pointed it out.
As to the name of Zaid Ibn Ali Rahimahu Allah I had merely forgotten as I am getting on a bit and tend to forget. I also thanked you for reminding me.
All ijtehad is done in accordance with your understanding of the Quran and the sunnah. As such it is open to interpretatoon and questioning. However this again is a side point. As I have already mentioned ibn Abbas was against the decision and you should really read about his conversation with Hussain RA. So was his interpretation wrong?No little brother people make choices with the best of intentions and right or wrong is upto Allah Subhanahu wa Ta alaah to judge.
And may Allah guide you too and increase you in knowledge and khair Ameen.
MaAsSalam.

Shah g I have a simple question why is that when it comes To praising The Ahl e Bayt. R.A we get defensive
like Allah knows best
this might be ijtihad
I just don't rely on what my movli sb told me or a certain sect which is prevalent in Arabia that coz its coming from an Arab so in all probability its gonna be a gospel's truth------

 

[araz]

Shah g I have a simple question why is that when it comes To Ahl e Bayt. R.A we get defensive
like Allah knows best
this might be ijtihad
I just don't rely on what my movli sb told me or a certain sect which is prevalent in Arabia that coz its coming from an Arab so in all probability its gonna be a gospel's truth------

At the expense of getting way off target with the debate,the ahl al bait are a part of what you send Durood to when you say "Allahuma saleh ala Mohammadin wa alaAal e mohammadin----------" so their respect is tentamount irrespective of whether they were or were not arabs. You are well within your rights to disagree with all the ijtehad of Ahl al bait or anyone else, however I say Allah knows best primarily as it is true and it is not upto us to doubt someone's intentions without knowing what is in their heart.Secondly it should be done with due respect. I recognize that Allah izza wa Jal is the only one free of all faults and none other than him deserves that merit.
In the case of Ali RA and Muaveyah RA,we say RA out of respect for the fact that both were sahaba knowing fully well that Ali RA is from the ashrae mubasshira while MuaveyahRA accepted islam after fathe macca. However irrespective of their status we say RA out of respect for both having been sahaba e Rasool SAW. So if amongst sahaba we are not in a position to judge them. However we can say one was more right than the other. It is simply a matter of respect for their status which is higher than ours.
Iam glad to hear that you dont listen to your molvi and do your own research. This is a very good policy with mulahs nowadays. However the better position is to listen and research. Whatever appeals to you keep it and follow it staunchly whereas ignore that which does not make sense to you. That way you will learn more without blindly following. The last thing is when you cant make sense of things after reading then find a good aalim and ask. If it makes sense keep it with you and follow it otherwise make a prayer to Allah izza waJal and he will provide you with the means. There is no bounty that He izza wa Jal will not provide except that it is not good for you or you have not asked with sincerity. Always have faith in Allah SWT and He will answer your call. I hope I have cleared some of your confusion. Islam is the deen of Allah Subhanahu WaTa alaah and Prophet MohammadSAW was the perfect follower of his deen. He SAW is the one we need to follow through listening to the Quran and Sunnahand that over which there was Ijmaa of the sahaba e Karaam RAAjmaeen, rather than anyone else. Everyone else comes after that. So having respect does not lead to blind faith but a rational way of excelling in your deen. I hope I have clarified some confusion in your brain.
A

 

[Talwar e Pakistan]

Guys; an unseen clip.

 

[Irfan Baloch]

Guys; an unseen clip.

little careless stance and peering over which c an result in sniper hit . but I have seen worse

 

[MastanKhan]

little careless stance and peering over which c an result in sniper hit . but I have seen worse

Hi,

Just like the SSG colonel at the red mosque!

 

[Psychic]

Hi,

Just like the SSG colonel at the red mosque!

He was neither careless nor peering over anything, he was hit by automatic fire while he was returning with his team after they had planted explosive charges to the wall of the seminary the night before the planned raid.

 

[MastanKhan]

He was neither careless nor peering over anything, he was hit by automatic fire while he was returning with his team after they had planted explosive charges to the wall of the seminary the night before the planned raid.

Hi,

That was the original story that came out---.

 

[Irfan Baloch]

Hi,

Just like the SSG colonel at the red mosque!

yes. he and/ or others were hit by one sniper hiding in one of the marinates that had a secret tunnel attached to it from the living areas. Lal Masjid guys really upstaged the SSG guys and the operation fell on its face even before starting due to the apologetic nature of it. Of course we were going to win militarily but Lal Masjid thugs left us a blood nose they won propaganda war.

Adopting an Iranian or Saudi approach of dealing with such pests would have had much favourable results. I mean the way they deal with rebellion (rant over)


that aside

like i said I have seen worse cases of self preservation and discipline.. here mostly the chaps are showing a little restraint and only few cases are shooting needlessly and blindly with gun over the shoulders.. reminding me of the shooting style of our Arab fighters .

 

[thrilainmanila]

Guys; an unseen clip.

Looking at this im not at all shocked pak army have suffered heavy casualties in waziristan look at the god damn commanding officer hes asking to be hit by sniper fire. The regulars are also asking to be killed erratic unorganised small arms fire why fire bullets just to make noise.

Looking at this im not at all shocked pak army have suffered heavy casualties in waziristan look at the god damn commanding officer hes asking to be hit by sniper fire. The regulars are also asking to be killed erratic unorganised small arms fire why fire bullets just to make noise.

yes. he and/ or others were hit by one sniper hiding in one of the marinates that had a secret tunnel attached to it from the living areas. Lal Masjid guys really upstaged the SSG guys and the operation fell on its face even before starting due to the apologetic nature of it. Of course we were going to win militarily but Lal Masjid thugs left us a blood nose they won propaganda war.

Adopting an Iranian or Saudi approach of dealing with such pests would have had much favourable results. I mean the way they deal with rebellion (rant over)


that aside

like i said I have seen worse cases of self preservation and discipline.. here mostly the chaps are showing a little restraint and only few cases are shooting needlessly and blindly with gun over the shoulders.. reminding me of the shooting style of our Arab fighters .

I heard most of the SSG casualties came from insidory grenades they using.