Allied Militants Threaten Pakistan’s Populous Heart

[TruthSeeker]

^TS, the license to kill fellow muslims seems to increase with puritanism.

If you're a moderate muslim, you can't kill anyone except non-muslims.

If you're extremist musilm, you can kill every other sect of Islam as well.

That's how it appears to work at the moment.

Yes, I agree. But the astonishing thing is that the "moderate" Muslims don't even recognize the truth of what you have said. And, non-Muslims, like US and European politicians, don't recognize the truth of what you say either (i.e. about how "moderate" the moderate Muslims really are when it comes to we kaffirs.)

 

[EyelessInGaza]

^TS, the license to kill fellow muslims seems to increase with puritanism.

If you're a moderate muslim, you can't kill anyone except non-muslims.

If you're extremist musilm, you can kill every other sect of Islam as well.

That's how it appears to work at the moment.

I know you've said 'seems' in your first statement. I will still say that the part I have bolded is, in my opinion, 'reverse propaganda'. It seems to me to be similar to what I read about opinions held by Americans about the Japanese in WWII.

Most human beings just want to get on with their lives. For example, just google 'alcohol and Pakistan'.

Which is not to say that (IMO) Pakistan does not have a religion led crisis on its hands. It does that, indeedy. In spades.

 

[S-2]

Let's be clear that the converse is,

"Who are your friends?"

Matters appear desperate from afar but I'm confident that we over-react and the sage pros in Rawalpindi are even now planning their "shock n' awe" counter-offensive to restore the state and save our fledgling democracy.

Hope so anyway.

Give us a yell if you want us to invade from the west. We'll squeeze them around Lahore or so when we finally bump into your army.

Thanks.

 

[Rabbit.Rabbit]

I know you've said 'seems' in your first statement. I will still say that the part I have bolded is, in my opinion, 'reverse propaganda'. It seems to me to be similar to what I read about opinions held by Americans about the Japanese in WWII.

Most human beings just want to get on with their lives. For example, just google 'alcohol and Pakistan'.

Which is not to say that (IMO) Pakistan does not have a religion led crisis on its hands. It does that, indeedy. In spades.

Tell me Eyeless, if it were Hindu or Sikh armies marching towards Islamabad, would these moderate Pakistanis have the same brotherly attitude?

I know my post is rather stark, but given the context its quite accurate.

 

[s90]

Guerilla warfare needs local support,will they get it in Punjab?

 

[Rabbit.Rabbit]

Guerilla warfare needs local support,will they get it in Punjab?

The terrain in not suited to Guerilla warfare. You need to hold ground in these vast, populous plains.

IMO, it will be much more difficult for Taliban to overthrow the state in Punjab province.

 

[S-2]

The PLA found it's base of support in China's north. Vast, flat farmland. Punjab offers a myriad of villages in an agarian backdrop.

I see real possibilities myself.

 

[EyelessInGaza]

Tell me Eyeless, if it were Hindu or Sikh armies marching towards Islamabad, would these moderate Pakistanis have the same brotherly attitude?

I know my post is rather stark, but given the context its quite accurate.

I referenced the sentiment, indirectly, in an earlier post about defining the enemy.

Yeah the moderate Pakistanis wouldn't, not would I expect to. Because that's the attitude most nations would have if the faced an assault from an enemy nation, particularly if that enemy were from a different religion.

Hence the 'better dead than red' slogan of the 50s, no?

I think you are reading it wrong. If 'moderate Muslims' are really as fanatical as that, why you've already lost.

To me, Iraq supports my point in spades; most Iraqis want to get on with their lives (Of course that very human condition makes it easier for despots to come to power). If the moderates were really as hardcore, the US would have lost by now.

 

[Rabbit.Rabbit]

Eyeless I do take your point, but my post was about sympathies and not fanaticism.

Of course, the moderate Pakistanis are not fanatics, hence the name 'moderates', but if push comes to shove, will they take on the Taliban? I think it will be far more difficult for them to kill Taliban than for Taliban to kill them.

 

[Rabbit.Rabbit]

The PLA found it's base of support in China's north. Vast, flat farmland. Punjab offers a myriad of villages in an agarian backdrop.

I see real possibilities myself.

Well, if the Taliban can rebrand themselves as primarily a class struggle then it does hold some possibilities.

But such movements take a long time to develop, and currently there's very little grassroots support for the Taliban in the Punjab.

In NWFP/FATA small numbers of guerillas could outdo the PA, but not in the plains where the PA will have a decisive upper hand.

 

[H2O3C4Nitrogen]

Were the US and Nato Forces able to fight the taliban in afghanistan ?

The fact is these talibans are getting support from Russia through Iran .
People saw the Iranian Revolution happening ,
here we will witness a Pakistani Revolution.

Its better that US dosent interfere coz if you jumped into a hurricane you never know where you gona land.

US has almost compleetely lost support from all classes of people weather they are Moderates Wahabis Sunnees or Shias no one likes them to be here in afghanistan and from their launching drone attacks upon our land and from their harbour desighns along with our enemies to slave our Gov.
Slowly the storm is building up.

 

[S-2]

"In NWFP/FATA small numbers of guerillas could outdo the PA, but not in the plains where the PA will have a decisive upper hand."

I sense a pre-disposition to seriously not consider this issue and I'm unsure why.

The P.A. have no answer for the leeching effect of "shabnamah". This isn't a war of manuever nor attrition. It is an information war and that's long-since been decided by Zia.

I'd encourage you to consider if the P.A. will leave their barracks and, if so, on which side.

 

[Rabbit.Rabbit]

S2, of course my assumption is that the PA will leave their barracks when push comes to shove.

I think the PA will not hesitate to fight for its own survival.

But if PA cannot find a way motivate its troops - then we are in big trouble.

Will the peasants resist the Taliban? Perhaps in a half-hearted manner, but I don't see a mass movement in opposition to the Taliban ever developing.

 

[S-2]

"Will the peasants resist the Taliban? Perhaps in a half-hearted manner, but I don't see a mass movement in opposition to the Taliban ever developing."

O.K. I see. That doesn't seem to fit, though, with this-

"...currently there's very little grassroots support for the Taliban in the Punjab."

I'm no statistician but my guess is that because of population dominance, the Punjab may be simultaneously Pakistan's richest and poorest province. Consider before reacting but with half the nation's population in one province, that's a LOT of poor people who are very devout. Most of the kashmiri resistance groups recruit from this area so there's some local cognizance of islamist theology.

Most of all, this is the prize and the struggle is postured as a muslim versus America battle. The army's body language says too, too much.

 

[ANDUBYLL]

S2, of course my assumption is that the PA will leave their barracks when push comes to shove.

I think the PA will not hesitate to fight for its own survival.

But if PA cannot find a way motivate its troops - then we are in big trouble.

Will the peasants resist the Taliban? Perhaps in a half-hearted manner, but I don't see a mass movement in opposition to the Taliban ever developing.

Once a Pushtoon said to me, rather arrogantly that , south of Peshwar , Hindu or India starts. The sons of Chaudharies, short dark people that are frightened of us pathans
Now if we look at history of Afghanis , it sure has been a wretched place all its existance. It has not progressed economically and has been an indicator of everything that is wrong in humanity from the cruely and barbarism that they show to their own people to the treatment of minorities and women !
However, the areas that make up Punjab has always been one of the cradle of civilisation and one of the prosperous and content regions in the sub continent
The punjabi muslim is a different cattle of fish ! Peaceful and content with life, they have build great civilisations and are a proud people. However if push comes to shove and if barbarians at the door , try to get inside, then the punjabis will become the most martial race on this planet!! The Talibans will dig their own grave, if they ever try to take over Punjab !!