'Allah' for Muslims only: Malaysia's top court

[ptldM3]

You just proved once again why you are a bigot.

Says the guy that is advocating discrimination against Christians like i said look up the definition of bigot since you are hopelessly confused to its meaning.

According to you, Catholics are not Christian.

Oh boy, you dug yourself a hole. Many catholics do not even like to be called Christian, protestant Christians such as pentecostals, baptists, adventists, ect and catholics share fundamental different beliefs, the one thing that Catholics and generic Christians agree on is Jesus or Christ, in that sense a Catholic can call themselves Christian as in they believe in Christ but that is where the similarities end. I will refer to most Christian denominations excluding Catholics as just Christian.

For one Catholics worship and pray to Marry, Christians reject this because they feel it is not in scripture.

Catholics worship the pope and admire him and even pray to dead Popes, Christians find this to be blasphemy.
Catholics use statues in prayer, Christians see this as idolatry.
Catholics refer to to men as 'fathers' Christians see this as a violation of scripture.
Catholics pray to 'Saints' Christians pray only to the father.
Catholics believe in purgatory, Christians reject this and argue it is not in scripture.
Catholics attend mass.

There are dozens more major differences but the picture is clear, protestant denominations and catholics don't even pray to the same beings, don't confuse the two.

The great thing about idiots like you is that you expose your bigotry and idiocy to the world and never realize it.

You mad? The first sign of weakness and an inability to debate someone is to start name calling. I think everyone can see who the idiot here is

You are also a bigot because you implied that the word of a Muslim is not believable.

That is a serious accusation, quote me saying this. You should be banned for making up accusations.

@Aeronaut i have endured his foul language but outright lies such as the above are outright cheap and completely inappropriate. My post are here for the world to see, i told him to quote me, he will not be able to, nor will he even be able to loosely imply that i ever said anything similar.

Now you are dismissing the word of a Catholic because he is not a Christian, according to you. Sadly for you, the people whom you dismiss because of their religion are presenting actual specifics, unlike your comical denial.

No i am dismissing him because, one he is not a missionary and two he gives no reference to his claims. Lastly he is Catholic and not a protestant Christian, the two should not be confused, and i am not choosing sides, simply pointing out that they can not be lumped together.

Your pathetic grasp of English and logic is all the more hilarious because you can't follow a straightforward exposition in the New York Times article debating why the Christian missionaries tactics are deceitful.

Or you can't even read your own sources. The article gave counter argument by people claiming that the camel method is not deceitful. The article is objective, different people have different views, you place your opinions as hard facts.

It is not just someone's opinion. Those claims are backed with theological arguments by at least two knowledgeable academics. These people know the missionaries tactics and know why they are wrong.

Selective reading. From your own source Davis Garrison which argued as to why the camel methods is not deceitful is a phD, theologian, author, and a missionary. How is he any less credible? Just because you disagree with him does not make him wrong, this is opinion based, all parties have their viewpoints and arguments.

Garrison has a PhD from the University of Chicago and a Masters degree from Golden Gate Seminary, with undergraduate study at Ouachita Baptist University and Seinan Gakuin University in Japan. He has lectured widely including such schools as Southwestern Baptist Theological Seminary, Fuller Theological Seminary, Trinity Evangelical Seminary, and Columbia Biblical Seminary. He is the author of The Nonresidential Missionary (MARC, 1990), Something New Under the Sun (IMB, 1998), and Church Planting Movements (WIGTake, 2004), which has been translated into more than a twenty languages.

First you claimed that missionaries don't do anything wrong. When confronted by evidence from Christian sources, including missionaries, you start running from pillar to post and blabbering incoherently.

Wrong, i challenged you to provide evidence for your accusations. You posted a link in which Caner stated his opinion in which he believes some missionary 'tactics' are deceitful, a phD educated missionary made strong and valid points as to why certain tactics are not deceitful.

 

[The SC]

I agree with the topic and the actions, Allah and everything associated with it should belong to muslims only and exclusively.

Allah does not "belong" to anyone, anyone who is honest and lives with good deeds and good thoughts is liked by Allah, and everything, including the believers as well as the non believers, the good and the bad, belong to him. Humanity is but an infinitesimal entity in the vast Universe that belongs to Him.

 

[The SC]

Here is an example from the other side of the Muslim world:
Christian missionaries stir unease in north Africa
(Reuters) - A new breed of undercover Christian missionary is turning to Muslim north Africa in the search for new converts, alarming Islamic leaders who say they prey on the weak and threaten public order.

Christian missionaries stir unease in north Africa| Reuters

In other articles, it was described how the missionaries target, the very poor, the orphans and the unemployed north African youth with European visa for immigration to Europe, so reality is that they are praying on the weak and exploiting the economic weaknesses of countries for the purpose of conversion, this is not a divine message, this is an economic message.

 

[A.P. Richelieu]

You just proved once again why you are a bigot.

Wrong. I am supporting truth in advertising to curb the deceitful conduct of Christian missionaries.

Malaysian Christians are free to worship whomever they wish.

No, you are supporting unscrupulous and deceitful behavior, just because the criminals happen to be Christian. You refuse to accept that such deceitful behavior by some Christian missionaries is the catalyst for this ruling.

This is not just my opinion; this is documented and accepted even by Christian academics in the West.

The fact that you refuse to acknowledge it makes YOU the bigot and clueless idiot.

You support a law which says that Christians cannot use Allah for their God.
You have said that ordinary Christians are collateral damage.
That is admitting that the law is repressive.
Conclusion: You fail at logic.

The purpose of the law is to stop missionaries to lure "gullible" persons into Christendom.
That is bigottery in its clearest form.

Your opinion that people must be protected against knowledge about other religions,
is degrading to possible converts, and is again an example of bigottery.

I support each religions right to spread their word without restrictions by government.
I do not consider it harmful to be exposed to the thinking of other people.
Therefore I do not see that anyone is harmed by what you call deceitful missionaries.
Some may be annoyed, but that is no reason to restrict religious freedoms of people
which are not even accused of anything.

Please explain what kind of harm even a "deceitful" missionary could create.

Here is an example from the other side of the Muslim world:
Christian missionaries stir unease in north Africa
(Reuters) - A new breed of undercover Christian missionary is turning to Muslim north Africa in the search for new converts, alarming Islamic leaders who say they prey on the weak and threaten public order.

Christian missionaries stir unease in north Africa| Reuters

Yes, several good examples of repressive laws against non-Muslims.

 

[The SC]

You support a law which says that Christians cannot use Allah for their God.
You have said that ordinary Christians are collateral damage.
That is admitting that the law is repressive.
Conclusion: You fail at logic.

The purpose of the law is to stop missionaries to lure "gullible" persons into Christendom.
That is bigottery in its clearest form.

Your opinion that people must be protected against knowledge about other religions,
is degrading to possible converts, and is again an example of bigottery.

I support each religions right to spread their word without restrictions by government.
I do not consider it harmful to be exposed to the thinking of other people.
Therefore I do not see that anyone is harmed by what you call deceitful missionaries.
Some may be annoyed, but that is no reason to restrict religious freedoms of people
which are not even accused of anything.

Please explain what kind of harm even a "deceitful" missionary could create.



Yes, several good examples of repressive laws against non-Muslims.

In other articles, it was described how the missionaries target, the very poor, the orphans and the unemployed north African youth with European visa for immigration to Europe, so reality is that they are praying on the weak and exploiting the economic weaknesses of countries for the purpose of conversion, this is not a divine message, this is an economic message.

 

[A.P. Richelieu]

In other articles, it was described how the missionaries target, the very poor, the orphans and the unemployed north African youth with European visa for immigration to Europe, so reality is that they are praying on the weak and exploiting the economic weaknesses of countries for the purpose of conversion, this is not a divine message, this is an economic message.

I really doubt that missionaries can issue visas. These are issued by embassys and consulates.
I also doubt that any European country is actively trying to get very poor, orphans and unemployed to
emigrate to Europe. If they come, and have a valid reason, they are accepted as refugees,
regardless of faith. Have never heard of anyone changing faith for such reasons.

If it happens, then it is certainly an exception, rather than a rule.
Once in Europe, they can change faith, without issue, so there is really nothing that can be gained
by "bribing" people.

Using the words "prey on", when discussing missionaries, seems misplaced.
Do the missionaries get any advantage by converting? Don't think so.
They are normally underpayed.

The article confirms that it is actually forbidden to try to convert Muslims
to another faith in some Muslim countries.
"stirring up trouble" then could mean normal missionary work.

 

[The SC]

I really doubt that missionaries can issue visas. These are issued by embassys and consulates.
I also doubt that any European country is actively trying to get very poor, orphans and unemployed to
emigrate to Europe. If they come, and have a valid reason, they are accepted as refugees,
regardless of faith. Have never heard of anyone changing faith for such reasons.

If it happens, then it is certainly an exception, rather than a rule.
Once in Europe, they can change faith, without issue, so there is really nothing that can be gained
by "bribing" people.

Using the words "prey on", when discussing missionaries, seems misplaced.
Do the missionaries get any advantage by converting? Don't think so.
They are normally underpayed.

The article confirms that it is actually forbidden to try to convert Muslims
to another faith in some Muslim countries.
"stirring up trouble" then could mean normal missionary work.

You can read about missionary visas, it is all over the net.

 

[ptldM3]

You can read about missionary visas, it is all over the net.

Educate people not familiar with this. Are you saying missionaries are able to grant visa's?

 

[The SC]

Educate people not familiar with this. Are you saying missionaries are able to grant visa's?

Missionary affairs and their evictions from some north African states became parliamentary affairs in Europe, See the Dutch Parliament and the eviction of dutch missionaries from Morocco. the same happened with France.
In most European Parliaments you'll find Political parties with the Christian connotation; the Christian democratic party, the Christian this, and the Christian that.
This should explain the link for issuing visas. It is politico-religious and tries to exploit any weakness in the Muslim world, mostly economic weaknesses for the purpose of conversion. So it is obvious from the start that these conversions are not for religious purposes, but rather for political purposes like "war on Islam", a desperate move by some non-practicing/non-believing Christians in their attempts to counter the spread of Islam in the the "Christian" West.

 

[boomslang]

... this is only one of ther tricks for mass mind control....

Quick !!! Someone get me my tin foil hat !!!

 

[IndoUS]

Quick question,we in India use Prabuh or Pabuh when referring to Christ. Is this also banned?

 

[Kompromat]

Quick question,we in India use Prabuh or Pabuh when referring to Christ. Is this also banned?

India is not under discussion here.

 

[ptldM3]

Missionary affairs and their evictions from some north African states became parliamentary affairs in Europe, See the Dutch Parliament and the eviction of dutch missionaries from Morocco. the same happened with France.

Europe is mostly secular, missionaries operate on their own free will, they do not fulfill some hidden agenda that is passed onto them by parliaments. Moreover, Missionaries have no special abilities to grant visa's as you have falsely implied. Embassies are contacted if a missionary might find themselves in legal trouble.

In most European Parliaments you'll find Political parties with the Christian connotation; the Christian democratic party, the Christian this, and the Christian that.

And how does this at all correlate to missionaries and these fantom visa's? Are you implying that European parliaments are sending missionaries abroad on their orders? I will ask you to provide a link but i don't expect anything to materialize.

This should explain the link for issuing visas. It is politico-religious and tries to exploit any weakness in the Muslim world, mostly economic weaknesses for the purpose of conversion.

No one will issue a visa to someone just because they are a certain religion or because they convert to another religion, there has to be grounds for this such as religious prosecution, no one gets any favors or special treatment based on their religion. It's silly that you would even say such a thing.

So it is obvious from the start that these conversions are not for religious purposes, but rather for political purposes like "war on Islam", a desperate move by some non-practicing/non-believing Christians in their attempts to counter the spread of Islam in the the "Christian" West.

Please stop, read what you just wrote and then think about it from a point based on reality and laws. At best this is a conspiracy theory, and a bad one at that.

 

[A.P. Richelieu]

You can read about missionary visas, it is all over the net.

Yes, and the top posts when you are googling, is all about missionaries getting visas for visiting other countries
to do missionary work. Not for missionaries issuing visas for possible converts.
The Dutch got evicted for trying to convert Muslims to Christianity (something they denied).
Moroccan Law apparently forbids conversion.
So it is really a good example of repression of non-Muslims (and Muslims which does not get a chance to make up their own opinion, whether convert or stay)

 

[Dubious]

whats that mean in urdu ?

In Urdu it is also Assalamualaikum

I am not sure why everyone is going crazy over it! Its not a new notion...Sadly in Malaysia there are also high level clergy who arent well much educated or tolerant!

1 sad reason is they are stuck in that time when some missionaries came to Malaysia and distributed pamphlets with ALLAH written on it which Muslims kept in their homes without reading properly (or even understanding) the pamphlet referred to Jesus as SON OF ALLAH...this was the 1st and only strike which agitated the Muslims and I believe @Developereo was referring to this...

So those who do not even know the basics have no reason to show their concern coz if you were concern you would have done a little bit of background reading instead of jumping into a thread about a country that you might not visit in your lifetime regarding a situation you have no idea of its history (wonder how many tried to tell me history of Hinduism in S.E.Asia but refuse to read this simple 1 para history)!