'Allah' for Muslims only: Malaysia's top court

[Dubious]

The Vatican is a sovereign state, and it is the Vatican that has representatives,
so a lot of your comments is redundant.

What is important is if laws are designed to repress religions or not.
If a new state if formed in Europe based on a religion, and it is recognized
by the rest, there will be ambassadors there as well.

As for not hiring non-Christians, you normally have a clause that allows employers,
to fire disloyal employees. Since the church is "selling" faith, not sharing that faith
is questioning the main product, and thus disloyal, and cause for dismissal.

The view on sexuality differs between Catholic and Protestant countries.
I do not see any of the problems you mention here and the Pope
has no authority whatsoever over Protestant countries.
His authority over Catholic countries is immense, and based on people
supporting him out of free will.

The very fact that he Catholic church asked to be included in the decision making and law making makes EU non secular! coz it is putting in Christian morals as a ground for making decisions...So it is rather deceitful that EU claims to be secular

And when France went all racist... I didnt see the Catholic nun's asked not to cover their heads so it is what we call biased!

Allah, Rab ul Aalameen not Rab ul Muslimeen. Remember that.

Yes that is not the problem...Problem arises when people say Jesus is son of ALLAH (for them it means god) but

it goes against these verses:

They say: "Allah has begotten a Son". Glory be to Him! His is what the heavens and the earth contain; all things are obedient to Him. Creator of the heavens and the earth! When he decrees a thing, He need only say "Be", and it is.
—Qur'an 2:116

They say, ‘God has begotten a son.’ God forbid! Self-sufficient is He. His is all that the heavens and the earth contain. Surely for this you have no sanction. Whould you say of God what you know not?
—Qur’an 10:68

Wonderful Originator of the heavens and the earth; how can He have a son when He has no consort? He created all things, and He hath full knowledge of all things.
—Qur'an 6:101

Never has God begotten a son, nor is there any other god besides Him. Were this otherwise, each god would govern his own creation, each holding himself above the other. Exalted be God above their falsehoods!
—Qur’an 23:91

Say: ‘GOD is One, the Eternal God. He begot none, nor was He begotten. None is equal to Him.’
—Qur’an 112:1-4

In each ayat the God is ALLAH





Like @A.P. Richelieu said :

have a clause that allows employers,
to fire disloyal employees. Since the church is "selling" faith, not sharing that faith
is questioning the main product, and thus disloyal, and cause for dismissal.

Well Malaysia is not secular so when someone goes against its religion they put a fullstop there...in this case the approval of a new law to prevent the destruction of their product (religion)

 

[Jungibaaz]

Yes that is not the problem...Problem arises when people say Jesus is son of ALLAH (for them it means god) but

it goes against these verses:

They say: "Allah has begotten a Son". Glory be to Him! His is what the heavens and the earth contain; all things are obedient to Him. Creator of the heavens and the earth! When he decrees a thing, He need only say "Be", and it is.
—Qur'an 2:116

They say, ‘God has begotten a son.’ God forbid! Self-sufficient is He. His is all that the heavens and the earth contain. Surely for this you have no sanction. Whould you say of God what you know not?
—Qur’an 10:68

Wonderful Originator of the heavens and the earth; how can He have a son when He has no consort? He created all things, and He hath full knowledge of all things.
—Qur'an 6:101

Never has God begotten a son, nor is there any other god besides Him. Were this otherwise, each god would govern his own creation, each holding himself above the other. Exalted be God above their falsehoods!
—Qur’an 23:91

Say: ‘GOD is One, the Eternal God. He begot none, nor was He begotten. None is equal to Him.’
—Qur’an 112:1-4

In each ayat the God is ALLAH

Is my God different from your God or their God? Or do I believe in only one God, therefore only one God for all.

What does it matter to me that they say that Jesus is the son of their God or mine?
Where's the difference?

 

[A.P. Richelieu]

Well...it is not limited but it is leaning towards Islam due to majority
Language wise yes ALLAH and God is the same but not believe wise. What do I mean? Not 1 Jew calls his god as Jesus (those claiming Christianity was in Hebrew... Or even coz Jesus was himself a Jew) so basically religion wise Jesus is questionable name!

Well, in Malaysia everyone associates ALLAH with Muslim god and not 1 church does what these Christian missionaries are hitting (many of them not even with Arab routes but just picking this issue up to bully their way through!)

It is deceitful when you are not even Arab and are pushing this agenda that in Arab Christians do it so must Malaysian Christians?!

Why must Malaysian Christians do what Arab Christians do? That is the question no one raised! Christianity is not an Arab religion...so why arent they adhering to their main sources of Latin/ Greek and should be Hebrew?

Christians believe in the same God as the Jews but also believe Jesus is the son of God,
which the Jews do not.
According to the Quran, Allah is the same god as the Jewish God,
so all three religions believe in the same God.

That is elementary logic.

Anyone that believe that they are different, are saying that the Quran is wrong,
and by denying the Quran, you define yourself a non Muslim.

I am not pushing an agenda saying that Christians must call God this and that.
I am saying that in a country supporting Free Religion, they can call their God
"God", "Allah", "Jahve" or "Mickey Mouse", and the government should not intervene,
and neither should you. If they feel that their message is best understood,
by using the same name for the same god, so be it.

Christians do believe that Jesus is the son of Allah/God/Jahve/Mickey Mouse, and
them saying it is thus not deceitful, and not allowing them to say this, is repressive.

 

[Dubious]

Is my God different from your God or their God? Or do I believe in only one God, therefore only one God for all.

What does it matter to me that they say that Jesus is the son of their God or mine?
Where's the difference?

The difference is that it is going against their faith and they have a clause which protects faith...

No one had any problems with bibles in Malaysia when they said Jesus is son of GOD...but when they started printing it as son of ALLAH ..while the whole bible is in English or Malay...well then conspiracy theories start looking true!

 

[A.P. Richelieu]

Like @A.P. Richelieu said :

Well Malaysia is not secular so when someone goes against its religion they put a fullstop there...in this case the approval of a new law to prevent the destruction of their product (religion)

Then I think we have an agreement, that Malaysia is an Islamic state which represses other religions.

 

[Dubious]

Christians believe in the same God as the Jews but also believe Jesus is the son of God,
which the Jews do not.
According to the Quran, Allah is the same god as the Jewish God,
so all three religions believe in the same God.

I have said it multiple times the problem is not GOD but the son...Bibles are easily available in Malaysia where God is called God or Tuhan...no ban or any form of objection there!

That is elementary logic.

Anyone that believe that they are different, are saying that the Quran is wrong,
and by denying the Quran, you define yourself a non Muslim.

No I put up verses to show how the bible went against the direct words of the Quran...Maybe you missed it or ignored it!

I am not pushing an agenda saying that Christians must call God this and that.
I am saying that in a country supporting Free Religion, they can call their God
"God", "Allah", "Jahve" or "Mickey Mouse", and the government should not intervene,
and neither should you. If they feel that their message is best understood,
by using the same name for the same god, so be it.

Malaysia is not secular govt is free to intervene!

Yes I would like to see a bible in Israel where the God is called Jehova! when that day comes then please come back to me!

Christians do believe that Jesus is the son of Allah/God/Jahve/Mickey Mouse, and
them saying it is thus not deceitful, and not allowing them to say this, is repressive.

It is delightful esp when the whole bible is in Malay where the term for God is Tuhan not ALLAH...

 

[Jungibaaz]

The difference is that it is going against their faith and they have a clause which protects faith...

No one had any problems with bibles in Malaysia when they said Jesus is son of GOD...but when they started printing it as son of ALLAH ..while the whole bible is in English or Malay...well then conspiracy theories start looking true!

It doesn't bother me. It'd do them well not to use the word 'Allah' to avoid the controversy, but not because the controversy is necessarily well founded on the use of the word.

 

[Dubious]

Then I think we have an agreement, that Malaysia is an Islamic state which represses other religions.

Precious isnt it to just say your part and misinterpret the others and call it agreement?! Another deceitful act? Or is protecting its product ...now why the 2 faces when it came to EU it was protecting its product but now this law is oppressing?

I have repeated in 3 posts...

The bible is in Malay and the Malay term for God is Tuhan...why jump to Allah? Please tell me the reasoning ...

It doesn't bother me. It'd do them well not to use the word 'Allah' to avoid the controversy, but not because the controversy is necessarily well founded on the use of the word.

Yes it would do them well to produce a bible in 1 language and stick to that language instead of causing trouble by merging languages at will and playing with the innocent card! The English word is deceitful! And religion should not be spread using lies...it just fails the moral concept!

Plus if this leads to unrest then there is no use to allow it...Of course govt is only looking for peace in their country

It is troublemakers who bring in a Malay bible but substitute only 1 word into Arabic

Mind you till date Malays use Tuhan to address to God....

 

[KingMamba]

Some people showing clear lack of info on diversity of Christian theology, not all Christians pray to the God that Jews and Muslims worship. Some pray to Jesus himself especially Catholics who form the largest block of Christians. For them God is one in three persons namely the father, the son, and the holy ghost. This is accepted by both Jewish and Muslim scholars as putting them at odds with our concept of God and some scholars even call it borderline polytheistic paganism.

 

[Dubious]

Some people showing clear lack of info on diversity of Christian theology, not all Christians pray to the God that Jews and Musljms worship some pray to Jesus himself especially Catholics who form the largest block of Christians. For them God is one in three persons namely the father, the son, and the holy ghost. This is accepted by both Jewish and Muslim scholars as putting them at odds with our concept of God and some scholars even call it borderline polytheistic paganism.

Some take a step further....they pray to saints!

 

[A.P. Richelieu]

Malaysia is a country, not a religion. You are born into the country, not something you choose.
You are implying that if You live in Malaysia and are not a Muslim you are disloyal?
That is bigottery.

The Catholic Church does not have a say how Mosques should be run, so your comparision is flawed.

If people do not understand that Tuhan and Allah are the same,
it is a good idea to use Allah, if that makes the message sink in.

 

[KingMamba]

Is my God different from your God or their God? Or do I believe in only one God, therefore only one God for all.

What does it matter to me that they say that Jesus is the son of their God or mine?
Where's the difference?

When they say son of God they mean literally, when Muslim scholars say God is our father or we are his children they mean it metaphorically but Christians will say Jesus is the one begotten son of God.

begotten - Dictionary Definition : Vocabulary.com
Something is begotten when it's been generated by procreation — in other words, it's been fathered.

A somewhat old fashioned adjective, begotten is the past participle of the verb beget, which means to father or produce as offspring. You might recognize this word from John 3:16, one of the most popular and most often quoted bible verses: "For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life."

So you can see why Muslim and Jewish cleric both raise eyebrows towards Christians. Basically they make a demigod out of Jesus PBUH.

 

[takeiteasy]

Islam, Christianity and the Jews have a single God, and it is the same God.
Claiming Jesus is the son of the Allah, makes sense in a society where this God is known as Allah.
I see nothing deceitful in this, and I hope that accusations are based on more than these trivialities.

The God of Islam is not the God of Bible and Torah. Jews and Christians can call Yahweh or Elohim as shown in their scripts. Christianity itself is a revival or protesting new ideology among Jews. Jews considered Christianity as a heresy while Islam may have evolved from the Arabic pagan faith which was prevalent that time. we read Mohammad was introduced to Christianity by a monk called Bahira. So, Koran was constructed using Christian, Jewish elements with corrupted stories disagreeing with Torah and Bible.
Bahira - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[Jungibaaz]

When they say son of God they mean literally, when Muslim scholars say God is our father or we are his children they mean it metaphorically but Christians will say Jesus is the one begotten son of God.

begotten - Dictionary Definition : Vocabulary.com
Something is begotten when it's been generated by procreation — in other words, it's been fathered.

A somewhat old fashioned adjective, begotten is the past participle of the verb beget, which means to father or produce as offspring. You might recognize this word from John 3:16, one of the most popular and most often quoted bible verses: "For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life."

So you can see why Muslim and Jewish cleric both raise eyebrows towards Christians. Basically they make a demigod out of Jesus PBUH.

I wasn't arguing that at all. I'm looking at the technical uses of the word, that's where the objection is from, any other objection means interventionist objection of other people's belief.

 

[KingMamba]

The God of Islam is not the God of Bible and Torah. Jews and Christians can call Yahweh or Elohim as shown in their scripts. Christianity itself is a revival or protesting new ideology among Jews. Jews considered Christianity as a heresy while Islam may have evolved from the Arabic pagan faith which was prevalent that time. we read Mohammad was introduced to Christianity by a monk called Bahira. So, Koran was constructed using Christian, Jewish elements with corrupted stories disagreeing with Torah and Bible.
Bahira - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Muhammad PBUH met Bahira when he was a child, unless he hatched his evil plan at the age of 9 your story is ridiculous. There is no record of Bahira ever again after the first meeting except in Christian accounts which say he must have helped create the Quran without producing any proof for their accusation.