'Allah' for Muslims only: Malaysia's top court

[Militant Atheist]

Good that I did chose Hong Kong over Malaysia.

 

[ptldM3]

It's amazing how a whole bunch of anti-Muslim bigots are jumping all over this news without understanding what's going. The motivation for many of them -- who are well known Islamophobes on this forum -- is obvious.

The conversation isn't even centered about Islam, instead the entire topic is about Malaysia banning Christians from using certain vocabulary. Amazing how you are actively supporting taking away free speech from Christians or bluntly put discriminate against Christians but on the other hand you scream "anti Muslim" at everyone else.

The reality is that some small segments of Malaysian Christians were using Allah for some time and no one had an issue with that. However, over time, the Western missionary organizations full of cash from rich Western countries, have started massive programs of proselytizing using every dirty trick in the book.

And you would know this how??? Did live in Malaysia? Have you secretly infiltrated these missionary organizations? Do you wear tin foil on your head? I have asked you repeatedly to show some hard proof. where is it? I can make all sorts of wild claims too.

These missionaries even go as far as to call themselves 'muslim' and use 'pray to Allah' as a tactic to fool people.

Sound like hysteria to me, do you have video evidence of this? Bigots often spread fantastic rumors. What else have you heard, do they also eat children? Where is your proof, either you post reputable links to every single one of your claims or be know as a liar and a bigot.

No sources from Radical Muslims in Malaysia that are endorsing this discrimination either, since there credibility is about as good as yours.

 

[gambit]

Lets see what you wrote earlier today:

"It's amazing how a whole bunch of anti-Muslim bigots ..."

I assume that you by "desperate clueless idiot" refer to yourself.

As for actions of missionaries, I have stated that several times that it is something you have
to live with if you support freedom of religion.
In Sweden you have the Jehova Witness movement which behaves exactly the way
you describe. Annoying, but noone would dream of banning them just because they
are irritating.

Only people against fundamental freedoms of humans would want this, and you are a prime example of this.

Very good, sir.

We have honest and dishonest evangelists of all Christian sects. But for as long as I have been alive, not once do I see/hear news of ordinary people who opened their doors to both types, whether just to be nice or in honest inquiry, demanded the government to step in.

If one's faithfulness is known only between God and one's self, then what is the point ? The point is that: This is more about religious one-upmanship than about protecting members of the faith. This is about how I can be 'more Islamic' or 'more Christian' or 'more whatever' than you are.

 

[Nike]

Damn... reminds me of the laws whites used to impose on black slaves in 1900s America, except even the whites did not make laws on what words their black slaves could use.

Looks like an apartheid society in Malaysia between 1st class Muslims and 2nd class non-Muslims

No, Malaysian is actually discriminate the others is based on Racial prejudice. First they made a law to protect their Malays citizen (Bumiputra), and right now they adding the religion flavor to made a new kind of apartheid society. Maybe the first class citizen in Malay will be Moslem Malay citizens, next the second class citizen is Moslem from another races, next is non-Moslem Malay citizen, and the lowest rank in their society will be Non-Moslem non-Malay citizens.

 

[A.P. Richelieu]

U R the one to talk . lol

at least we muslims are honest with ourselves and others . what abt u guys huh ? ( i know ur not a representative of christians but for heck sure u represent an overwhelmingly stupid part of US)

u kill people with drones and tactical depleted uranium , u dissolve people in white phosphorous and orange agent .

u rip ppl's head off with dogsighted M-4s and bring hell on earth with ur super duper carriers . this is your today and dont even get me started on your freakish animalistic wild west .

okey ?

so when u talk abt muslim countries , you're talking abt nations who had public bathrooms long before u guys had toilet in west .

nations who's history are 100X times more than the 300 barbaric yrs of your history .....

who had human rights printed on stones long long time before the massacre of churches that ur proud of today .

peace

Reminds me of a trip to Egypt a few years ago. The guide got his knowledge about history from American Movies.

Where are the Muslim countries today culturally?

Where are the important philosophers, poets , writers , scientists?

Nowhere to be seen...

Muslim countries are ... History.

Meanwhile people are using microcomputers and Internet, both US inventions, to prove their barbarism.

Suggest you get a grip, and start to contribute again.

 

[Developereo]

Lets see what you wrote earlier today:

"It's amazing how a whole bunch of anti-Muslim bigots ..."

I assume that you by "desperate clueless idiot" refer to yourself.

As for actions of missionaries, I have stated that several times that it is something you have
to live with if you support freedom of religion.
In Sweden you have the Jehova Witness movement which behaves exactly the way
you describe. Annoying, but noone would dream of banning them just because they
are irritating.

Only people against fundamental freedoms of humans would want this, and you are a prime example of this.

Once again you demonstrate your incompetence with logic and the English language.

I refer to YOU -- that's YOU -- as an anti-Muslim bigot because you have demonstrated that bigotry with your general stereotypes and comments about Muslims and Islam.

By contrast, I am only criticizing extreme missionaries.

And, contrary to your delusions, missionaries do NOT have the right to use deceptive means. Like I wrote earlier, it's fine to say "please come in and hear about Jesus". It's not right to say "I am a muslim and let's pray for Allah" when, in fact, the missionary is trying to convert people to Christianity.

Once again you demonstrate your intellectual dishonesty by refusing to criticize the deceptive tactics used by Christian missionaries.

The conversation isn't even centered about Islam, instead the entire topic is about Malaysia banning Christians from using certain vocabulary. Amazing how you are actively supporting taking away free speech from Christians or bluntly put discriminate against Christians but on the other hand you scream "anti Muslim" at everyone else.













And you would know this how??? Did live in Malaysia? Have you secretly infiltrated these missionary organizations? Do you wear tin foil on your head? I have asked you repeatedly to show some hard proof. where is it? I can make all sorts of wild claims too.









Sound like hysteria to me, do you have video evidence of this? Bigots often spread fantastic rumors. What else have you heard, do they also eat children? Where is your proof, either you post reputable links to every single one of your claims or be know as a liar and a bigot.

No sources from Radical Muslims in Malaysia that are endorsing this discrimination either, since there credibility is about as good as yours.

Just sticking your head in the sand and refusing to acknowledge the world around you won't change anything.

I have posted references from the New York Times which shows actual missionaries and Christians admitting the dirty tricks used by Christian missionaries.

But it is to be expected that a bigot like you would ignore any wrongdoing by Christian missionaries.

Continue living with your head in the sand. The rest of the world will only ignore you.

 

[ptldM3]

Just sticking your head in the sand and refusing to acknowledge the world around you won't change anything.

I have posted references from the New York Times which shows actual missionaries and Christians admitting the dirty tricks used by Christian missionaries.

Lets look at your source and examine these "dirty tricks":

For example, the missionary board recommends that in some cases missionaries use “Allah” to refer to God. As Dr. Garrison explains it, “there is only one God, the God who created the heavens and earth,” so talking about the Christian God as “Allah” is not misleading. But Allah is also the specific god of the Koran, who says things the New Testament God would not. And the Isa of the Koran, while based on the Jesus of the New Testament, is quite different.

I do not see anything "dirty" about using the word allah when a Christian is speaking to a Muslim. You act so offended as if allah is a specific being or entity, it's a generic term that translates to God. Arab Christians use the word allah as do Muslims even when they speak to none Muslims. People have insecurity issues, are people so weak in their faiths that they are afraid that a technicality such as allah verse God will sway people away from their faith?


Lets look at another quote:

“At the extreme,” Dr. Reynolds said, “these Christian missionaries will grow beards like Muslims, give up pork, even say that they are ‘muslims’ — lower-case ‘m’ — in the Arab-adjective sense of ‘submissive to God.’ ”

Note this isn't a Christian missionary but a Muslim theologist. Where he gets this, he does not say, how he knows this, he does not say. We are supposed to take his word?

But it is to be expected that a bigot like you would ignore any wrongdoing by Christian missionaries.

The guy that is advocating discrimination against Christians is calling me a bigot Find a post, any post where i have said anything bad about Islam. Good luck, in the mean time look up the definition of a bigot because you are hopelessly confused.

It's people like you and your extremist views that are responsible for such barbaric practices such as arresting Christians for their faith, sentencing people to death, ect. Freedom of speech is a human right, it should be no ones business what someone else says, you can interpret the meaning of allah vs God all day long but contrary to what you say people do have a right to free speech even if it bothers or offends you.

 

[Developereo]

Lets look at your source and examine these "dirty tricks":





I do not see anything "dirty" about using the word allah when a Christian is speaking to a Muslim. You act so offended as if allah is a specific being or entity, it's a generic term that translates to God. Arab Christians use the word allah as do Muslims even when they speak to none Muslims. People have insecurity issues, are people so weak in their faiths that they are afraid that a technicality such as allah verse God will sway people away from their faith?


Lets look at another quote:






Note this isn't a Christian missionary but a Muslim theologist. Where he gets this, he does not say, how he knows this, he does not say. We are supposed to take his word?






The guy that is advocating discrimination against Christians is calling me a bigot Find a post, any post where i have said anything bad about Islam. Good luck, in the mean time look up the definition of a bigot because you are hopelessly confused.

It's people like you and your extremist views that are responsible for such barbaric practices such as arresting Christians for their faith, sentencing people to death, ect. Freedom of speech is a human right, it should be no ones business what someone else says, you can interpret the meaning of allah vs God all day long but contrary to what you say people do have a right to free speech even if it bothers or offends you.

I LOVE it when you get caught in your own trap and try desperately to squeeze out.

Dr. Reynolds teaches Muslim theology at the University of Notre Dame. That doesn't mean he is aMuslim himself. What it DOES mean is that he is an expert on the history of Christian missionary work, especially amongst Muslims.

Only you, in your desperate cluelessness, can fail to differentiate between an academic's field of expertise and his religion.

Dr, Caner, who is president of the Liberty Baptist Theological Seminary, in Lynchburg, Va., similarly noted that the “Camel Method,” a strategy Dr. Rankin endorses for preaching Christianity to Muslims, is deceitful.

Now, you can continue to stick your head in the sand, and refuse to accept Christian academics and missionaries themselves who point out the dirty tricks used by some extreme Christian missionaries, but your intellectual dishonesty makes YOU look bad.

I am not going to waste any more time on you since you will refuse to accept anything -- even by Christian academics, theologians and missionaries.

 

[Finer]

So what, if you don't want to be converted, then leave.
If You are converted, you can always change to another religion later.

There are of course those criminals against humanity, that believe that leaving a faith
for another one, is grounds for prosecution. Maybe You are one of that lot.

If people have a religion, just because of the way they were taught as kids,
and are not exposed to any other thoughts, then that religion has little value.
Only if You have made a choice based on many opposing views, and You
know why this choice is made, your choice has any value.

The whole point of Malaysia policy enforced on this is due to avoid misuing the word to placate the naive community.

That being said, better way of educating the religion is through the honesty-method that can solve lots of confusion. I wouldn't mind learning about Christianity/Catholicism if i am asked as person, but if i am lied, then misled to other religion while placating me using the word 'Allah' as cultural-wise; invoking Allah has always been used by Muslim which makes it culturally Muslim-oriented somehow though A CREATOR is one of the name of ALLAH in Arabic.

I don't agree with Malaysia decision regarding retricting to Muslim community only when it comes to invoking A CREATOR in Arabic word. But Malaysia has its reason for being paranoid noting the circumstances lately.

ALLAH is perfect word that summarizes everything in one special word of A CREATOR. It means A CREATOR, ONE CREATOR, SPECIAL CREATOR IN ITS OWN SPECIAL GENDER. ALLAH has 99 names which most of them are MERCIFUL, PROVIDER, HELPER, and MORE.

That is the word cannot be compared in any word such as the word like God can be easily manipulated as in God, Goddess, Godless, and go on. Overall, the followers of other religions should be allowed to invoke the name of A CREATOR in Arabic word.

 

[haman10]

Meanwhile people are using microcomputers and Internet, both US inventions, to prove their barbarism.
Suggest you get a grip, and start to contribute again.

invention ? u mean the the chipsets produced by laser ? oh wait that was an iranian invention . lolz

let me explain . wheel was invented in persia , now u all have cars dont u ? medicine was invented by persians . now u all go to doctor dont u ? algibra was invented by muslim iranians . now u study math dont u ?

how's that for getting a grip ?

also ,iran is right now 15th country in science production and by SCOPUS predictions , if we keep up with this pace , we'll beat US in science production by 2050s . how's that for a grip ?

SJR - International Science Ranking

^^ 2012 estimations

 

[HariPrasad]

They are reducing the acceptability of Islam. However it is perfectly in the line with what is going there in Islamic country.

 

[A.P. Richelieu]

invention ? u mean the the chipsets produced by laser ? oh wait that was an iranian invention . lolz

let me explain . wheel was invented in persia , now u all have cars dont u ? medicine was invented by persians . now u all go to doctor dont u ? algibra was invented by muslim iranians . now u study math dont u ?

how's that for getting a grip ?

also ,iran is right now 15th country in science production and by SCOPUS predictions , if we keep up with this pace , we'll beat US in science production by 2050s . how's that for a grip ?

SJR - International Science Ranking

^^ 2012 estimations

Noone denying that Islam has brought inventions in the past.
Today focus seems elsewhere.

 

[A.P. Richelieu]

Once again you demonstrate your incompetence with logic and the English language.

I refer to YOU -- that's YOU -- as an anti-Muslim bigot because you have demonstrated that bigotry with your general stereotypes and comments about Muslims and Islam.

By contrast, I am only criticizing extreme missionaries.

And, contrary to your delusions, missionaries do NOT have the right to use deceptive means. Like I wrote earlier, it's fine to say "please come in and hear about Jesus". It's not right to say "I am a muslim and let's pray for Allah" when, in fact, the missionary is trying to convert people to Christianity.

Once again you demonstrate your intellectual dishonesty by refusing to criticize the deceptive tactics used by Christian missionaries.

You are supporting a repressive law, that makes you a bigot, and thus a self proclaimed "desperate, clueless idiot".

I am supporting free speech and freedom of religion.

I am of the opinion that anyone have the right to call themselves Christians or Muslims regardless of how
they worship and have the right to recruit new worshipers as long as they are voluntary.
A religion is of course allowed to define certain criteria what you need to believe in order to be a believer,
but has no right to define criteria for other religions, and certainly no rights to define the terminology used.

I think pretending to be another religion, is not a sound strategy, for winning believers,
but see no reason for any government to meddle.
In a free society, people have the right to be gullible about religion.
You make it your business to stop that, again making you a bigot, and thus a self-proclaimed "desperate, clueless idiot".

 

[ptldM3]

Dr. Reynolds teaches Muslim theology at the University of Notre Dame. That doesn't mean he is aMuslim himself. What it DOES mean is that he is an expert on the history of Christian missionary work, especially amongst Muslims.

Oooh you got me, except nowhere did i say he was a practicing Muslim, i said he was a Muslim theologist that gave no reference for his claim. You can not even read in the context of your own arguments, the guy is not a missionary nor is he a Christian but rather Catholic, there is a big difference.

Only you, in your desperate cluelessness, can fail to differentiate between an academic's field of expertise and his religion.

I can say many things but the best one would be, you have reading comprehension problems.

Dr, Caner, who is president of the Liberty Baptist Theological Seminary, in Lynchburg, Va., similarly noted that the “Camel Method,” a strategy Dr. Rankin endorses for preaching Christianity to Muslims, is deceitful.

This is opinion from one man, in your own article David Garrison disagreed and defended the use of the camel method.

Now, you can continue to stick your head in the sand, and refuse to accept academics who point out the dirty tricks used by Christian missionaries, but your intellectual dishonesty only make YOU look like the idiot and the bigot that you are.

First watch your language your name calling is a sign of anger, poor education and a losing argument, then look up the definition of bigot. You can't call someone a bigot when they have not verbally attacked any groups of people, i challenge you to find a post where i make such attacks. A bigot would be someone like you which is constantly attacking Christians and stereotyping Christians and openly calling for discrimination against Christian.

And YOU are a bigot because you refuse to acknowledge that Christian missionaries are at fault here. In your refusal to accept facts, you are blaming Muslims.

Before i give you the definition of a bigot because you obviously don't know what it is, i will say that there are thousands of missionaries and i'm sure that some missionaries probably use questionable tactics; however, your arguments are weak and i disagree with your opinion that Malay Christians should not use the phrase allah. My argument and opinion is that if a Malay Christian is raised in a culture where allah is a common usage for when speaking of god then there is no wrong doing. Moreover, this is a question of free speech. Malay speakers as well as missionaries can use whatever language they choose.


Definition of Bigot:

: a person who strongly and unfairly dislikes other people, ideas, etc. : a bigoted person; especially : a person who hates or refuses to accept the members of a particular group (such as a racial or religious group)

So how does depriving Malay Christians of basic human rights as well as regulating what Christian missionaries say not make you a bigot?

 

[Developereo]

nor is he a Christian but rather Catholic

You just proved once again why you are a bigot.

According to you, Catholics are not Christian.

The great thing about idiots like you is that you expose your bigotry and idiocy to the world and never realize it.

You are also a bigot because you implied that the word of a Muslim is not believable. Now you are dismissing the word of a Catholic because he is not a Christian, according to you. Sadly for you, the people whom you dismiss because of their religion are presenting actual specifics, unlike your comical denial.

Your pathetic grasp of English and logic is all the more hilarious because you can't follow a straightforward exposition in the New York Times article debating why the Christian missionaries tactics are deceitful. It is not just someone's opinion. Those claims are backed with theological arguments by at least two knowledgeable academics. These people know the missionaries tactics and know why they are wrong.

Unlike your comical denials where all you can do is stick your head in the sand and ignore anything that doesn't suit your bigoted world view.

First you claimed that missionaries don't do anything wrong. When confronted by evidence from Christian sources, including missionaries, you start running from pillar to post and blabbering incoherently.

Finally, no one is restricting the Malaysian Christians' right to practice their religion. They are free to worship and pray, but the actions of deceitful Christian missionaries from the West have forced authorities to clamp down on their unscrupulous behavior, impacting ordinary Malaysians.

Once again, just because you stick your head in the sand won't change reality.

You are supporting a repressive law, that makes you a bigot, and thus a self proclaimed "desperate, clueless idiot".

Wrong. I am supporting truth in advertising to curb the deceitful conduct of Christian missionaries.

Malaysian Christians are free to worship whomever they wish.

I am supporting free speech and freedom of religion.

No, you are supporting unscrupulous and deceitful behavior, just because the criminals happen to be Christian. You refuse to accept that such deceitful behavior by some Christian missionaries is the catalyst for this ruling.

This is not just my opinion; this is documented and accepted even by Christian academics in the West.

The fact that you refuse to acknowledge it makes YOU the bigot and clueless idiot.