ALL Xinjiang related issues e.g. uyghur people, development, videos etc, In here please.

[Rasengan]

Yes, but refusal all the way to denial to admit a mistake is a mistake in itself!

They can't admit a mistake if it doesn't exist. Religious oppression is not the state policy of the CPC Govt. Otherwise, the other nine ethnic Muslim groups would have faced the same trouble. But have they made a mistake on policy. Of course, they have but why are they accountable to foreign Govt's? Its the internal matter of China just like I don't like the west interfering with our internal policies in Pakistan. Like I told you before, China has evolved since 1978, things will further improve as time goes by. They will have to reform on a whole number of issues.

I admit China has done a wonderful job but that is not my argument!

Not everything the govt did is painted wrongly! I have praised it where necessary! You cant cover the wrongs with the good! Just coz there is 95% good doesnt mean the 5% doesnt exist or is a myth?! That 5% is deadly to a whole nation/ people called Uyghur!

Look at Pakistan...they "modified" the Islamiyat...the children today dont study what my parents studied or what my generation studied...and are far loss! This is the case in an Islamic country imagine in a country where practicing religion is banned!

When the next generation will be CLUELESS about their religion...it will be easier for terrorists to recruit them claiming xyz version is the real Islam! It is the same how many people get recruited! MANY clueless souls are sold a version of a religion/ ideology that sounds cool and supporting their scenario...EVEN if the real religion doesnt teach that...THIS is dangerous! Not for now maybe but wait 1 generation and you will see the results...Look at Pakistan or even the 2nd generation Muslims in Europe...they fell for BS that was sold to them as Islam and went to fight a "holy war" without knowing what a Holy war is and that the crusaders are the ONLY ones in modern history who actually termed it that Jihad means strive not holy war...But there was no one to tell them that! Just lunatics calling them to their "duty"!

I don't disagree with this point of view. Clearly, the CPC Govt must find a solution to this problem to bring in harmony. In regards to Islamic education, there are many institutions across China. I forgot the name of the road, but within Beijing itself they have a school for Islamic education for Muslim boys and girls. Yunnan, in particular, is famous for having a number of schools. But on the whole, I agree. If China doesn't change some of its policies then in the long term it will end badly. The consequence will be severe as a whole generation of Uighurs can be radicalized for the wrong purpose.

Blanket statements are never good...even the unrelated suffer when you crackdown based on a people! it is like saying that Pathan, Sindhi or Punjabi do that...When we know not all Pathan, Sindhi or Punjabi are same...


IRRESPECTIVE of that, putting them in concentration camps and oppressing their religion isnt the way!

My statement wasn't a blanket. You asked what was considered a terrorist and I replied with the answer where Uighurs were attacking indiscriminately with knives and vans to hurt people. It wasn't the Han people going around causing mayhem on the street. Does that mean all Uighur are bad? No. The vast majority are good law abiding citizens. This is what most Chinese members are referring too when they claim such people can't be negotiated with. I agree with the concentration camp, but not about religious oppression.

Yes, and you stated your friend while ordering at a Uyghur restaurant as an example...but somehow Beijingwalker himself admitting (so did 2-3 other members) is not enough?

There's a big difference. I never claimed my friend spoke for the Chinese Govt and I spoke of an incident which I was personally involved with. I could see it with my own eyes rather than reading words on a forum or newspaper.

 

[Itachi]

Yes, I agree with you. But I have to make some Pakistani Friends here understand. How can they understand and accept what some Chinese Friends here to said, if they don't give any damn understanding that China was, and maybe still a Communist Country that controlled by a Communist Regime. Communism has long gone from China since Deng Xiaoping, but the value still there. And you want them to become a religious country suddenly?

But, although they're communist, there are already many progress in China in term of respecting religion. They have give you some compromise, although they demand some compromise from religion too. Long time ago, specially in Cultural Revolution era, it was impossible for you to practice your religion. Now, you practically can worship your God there. There are many functioning mosques, temples, and churches. Today, you can find halal food, Universities give Islam some privilege, so both Muslim Professors and Students can enjoy halal food from separated canteen, etc. Even Indonesian Muslim Students feel satisfied and enjoy their religious life in China.

Isn't that what you call "PROGRESS" ?

So, I'm with @beijingwalker here.



It require another progress, bro. But this progress require "Trust" from both side. Without that, no more progress will be happen to both side.

You come off as either a false flagger or a Chinese boot licker. Either way, just like the Chinese, you're spreading your lies and half truths here on PDF.

@Indos here has already explained that the Indonesian govt. doesn't feel satisfied with the Chinese govt. over the Uyghur issue so I don't know why here, on PDF on all places, you're supporting the Chinese propaganda effort.

Providing Halal food and Universities comes under the package of basic human rights, it's nothing to gloat over. You can find the same things in the West and other Asian countries where Muslims are a minority. What matters is putting those Muslim minorities under scrutiny for their beliefs.

@Rasengan same goes for you. You can stop making the Chinese seem like holier than thou, the truth is our there and everyone can see the atrocities of the Chinese in Xinjiang.

U.S. official denounces 'choreographed' visits to China's Xinjiang

BEIJING (Reuters) - “Highly choreographed” tours to Xinjiang organized by the Chinese government are misleading and propagate false narratives about the troubled region, a U.S. official said, after China announced plans to invite European envoys to visit.

China has been stepping up a push to counter growing criticism in the West and among rights groups about a controversial de-radicalization program in heavily Muslim Xinjiang, which borders Central Asia.

Critics say China is operating internment camps for Uighurs and other Muslim peoples who live in Xinjiang, though the government calls them vocational training centers and says it has a genuine need to prevent extremist thinking and violence.

China’s foreign ministry said late last week it would invite Beijing-based European diplomats to visit soon. Diplomatic sources said the so-far informal invitation had gone specifically to ambassadors and was planned for this week.

A U.S. government official, asked by Reuters if the U.S. ambassador to China, Terry Branstad, had been invited to visit Xinjiang, said there were no meetings or visits to announce.

“Highly choreographed and chaperoned government-led tours in Xinjiang have propagated false narratives and obfuscated the realities of China’s ongoing human rights abuses in the region,” the official said, speaking on condition of anonymity.

The visit this month would be the first by a large group of Western diplomats to the region since international concern about Xinjiang’s security clampdown began intensifying last year. Hundreds have died in unrest in Xinjiang in recent years.

Several groups of diplomats from other countries have already been brought to Xinjiang on tightly scripted trips since late December to visit the facilities.

There have been two visits by groups including European diplomats to Xinjiang this year. One was a small group of EU diplomats, and the other by a group of diplomats from a broader mix of countries, including missions from Greece, Hungary and North African and Southeast Asian states.

A Reuters journalist visited on a government-organized trip in January.


The U.S. official described what was happening in Xinjiang as “a highly repressive campaign”, and said claims that the facilities were “humane job-training centers” or “boarding schools” were not credible.

“We will continue to call on China to end these counterproductive policies, free all those who have been arbitrarily detained, and cease efforts to coerce members of its Muslim minority groups residing abroad to return to China to face an uncertain fate.”

China’s Foreign Ministry did not immediately respond to a request for comment. China has rejected all foreign criticism of its policies in Xinjiang, and says it invites foreigners to visit to help them better understand the region.

Earlier this month, the U.S. State Department said China’s treatment of Muslims in Xinjiang marked the worst human rights abuses “since the 1930s”.

The issue of Xinjiang adds another irritant to already strained ties between Washington and Beijing, who are trying to end a bitter trade war and have several other areas of disagreement, including the disputed South China Sea and U.S. support for Chinese-claimed Taiwan.

Late last year, more than a dozen ambassadors from Western countries, including France, Britain, Germany and the EU’s top envoy in Beijing, wrote to the government to seek a meeting with Xinjiang’s top official, Communist Party chief Chen Quanguo, to discuss their concerns about the rights situation.

The administration of U.S. President Donald Trump has weighed sanctions against senior Chinese officials in Xinjiang, including Chen.

Two diplomatic sources told Reuters on Saturday that government officials had said a meeting with Chen was not being offered to the European ambassadors, and that the trip was not to discuss human rights but to talk about China-Europe cooperation on President Xi Jinping’s signature Belt and Road project.

It remains unclear whether they would accept the invitation, though the two sources said it was unlikely.

The European Union’s embassy in Beijing has declined to comment on the invitation.


Xi is currently in Europe on a state visit to Italy, Monaco and France. Chinese Premier Li Keqiang goes to Brussels next month for a China-EU summit.

EU leaders said on Friday the bloc must recognize that China is as much a competitor as a partner.

Reporting by Ben Blanchard; Additional reporting by John Ruwitch in SHANGHAI; Editing by Sam Holmes

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-china-xinjiang-usa/u-s-official-denounces-choreographed-visits-to-chinas-xinjiang-idUSKCN1R503R

@Pan-Islamic-Pakistan @Indos @Dubious

 

[beijingwalker]

@beijingwalker[/USER] do you hate ordinary fellow Chinese Uighur citizens?

I love them, I grew up in Haidian district in Beijing, in Beijing, students go to schools in the districts they live, I lived close to 中央民族大学 Central university of nationalities (a strange English name), many of my childhood friends are Uighurs, but they were also born and grew up in Beijing like me, so they are also Beijingers. I love their unique culture and food, their parents often treat me with delicious Xinjiang food when I visited them, Xinjiang food is still my favorite food today.

 

[beijingwalker]

U.S. official denounces 'choreographed' visits to China's Xinjiang

Do you how much you should trust US, that's what the they of you.

China, Pakistan, Saudi Worst for Human Rights; Mostly Muslims at the Receiving End – US Reports
By EurAsian Times

June 23, 2019

The Annual Report on Religious Freedom, released this year has turned quite a few heads at the increasing atrocities towards minorities across the globe especially in China, Pakistan and Saudi Arabia. The US Secretary of State, Mike Pompeo had a few scathing statements regarding the state of affairs on global religious freedom. The findings along with the statements made by Pompeo been a cause of many foreign states going on the offensive and calling the report ‘biased’ and ‘incendiary’ in nature.

The report is an overview of the large-scale atrocities addressed across 28 nations. It talks about the many governments and non-government actors targeting religious minorities. According to the report, religious freedom continues to deteriorate across the globe. The most violent crimes included genocide, religious marginalisation, forced displacement, rape, enslavement and other such activities that curtail humanity.

One of the major topics of heated discussion was upon the stringent blasphemy laws that impinge the freedom of religious expression in Pakistan. The Secretary of State Mike Pompeo, speaking at the release of the report, estimated that there are more than 40 people who are presently serving life sentences or facing execution for blasphemy in Pakistan.

Aasiya Bibi, a Pakistani-Christian, was convicted of blasphemy in 2010 and sentenced to death. Bibi was found guilty for insinuating curses at the Islamic faith. The law of land for blasphemy in Pakistan includes life imprisonment and/or death.

There were many threats to her family and many Islamic clerics had openly put up a bounty for her death. Among those in support of her acquittal were harassed and physically harmed or even killed. Despite public protests against her, Bibi was acquitted on appeal in 2018 and allowed to leave for Canada.

Pompeo also criticised the Chinese government for its strong and violent persecution of the Muslim Uighurs in Xinjiang province. As an ethnic minority, the Uighurs, have been reportedly kept in “conditions similar to internment camps”. The Human Rights Watch suggests that the Uighur community is being subjected to intense surveillance and media are almost completely banned from the area.

Allegedly anyone found to contact abroad is being targeted and systematically punished. The State Department added that the abuses of religious freedom in China and especially in the Xinjiang province is unbelievable.

“In China, the government’s intense persecution of many faiths – Falun Gong practitioners, Christians, and Tibetan Buddhists among them – is the norm,” Pompeo said. The statement alluding to the systematic oppression of the Falun Gong spiritual movement over the feigned idea that the movement is supposedly ‘superstitious in nature and a foreign-driven menace to society’.

The Chinese government has reportedly persecuted almost 3000 documented practitioners. The other instances of persecution of Tibetan Buddhists and Christians have long been Party Headquarters agenda. All these cases were specifically mentioned in the report about China.

A rather interesting development in this report is the criticism of Saudi Arabia. The Trump administration has often shied away from bad-mouthing Saudi Arabia owing to its bountiful vested trade interests. The detainment of more than thousand Shias for non-violent offences has been something that has been touched upon in the report, portraying discrimination on their part.

The rise of Crown Prince of Saudi Arabia, Mohammed Bin Salman Al Saud, has hardly been able to garner the same positive momentum that was initially found to be the case. Sam Brownback, Ambassador at-Large for International Religious Freedom, is of the view that the ascend of the Crown Prince has been rather disappointing.

“I think there was a lot of hope at first in the change of leadership that things would open up substantially. They continue to be one of the worst actors in the world on religious persecution. We need to see actions take place in a positive direction,” he told reporters.

In April, which was after the timeframe of the 2018 report, Saudi Arabia conducted a mass execution of 37 people, most of them Shiites. The charges of execution ranged from alleged involvement in terrorist activities, espionage and protest-related offences.

Humans Rights Watch (HRW) suggested that one of the Saudi Shias was crucified after being beheaded, while the UN rights chief said at least three of those executed were minors when charged. Among the 37 people charged, 33 of them were Shia, which makes the act premeditated.

Michael Paige, deputy Middle East Director at HRW, suggests that the Saudis are falsely claiming that the detainees had extremist tendencies and that there is an utter lack of due process in their conviction and execution. The ‘criminals’ were solely condemned on the basis of confessions that were credibly found to be coerced.

The various inputs within the report make for an interesting insight into the impending danger of incited violence from various actors that has seemingly led to a pandemic. During the press release of the report, Mike Pompeo announced that the United States would host the first-ever “Ministerial to Advance Religious Freedom”.

This Ministerial would bring together governments, religious community leaders, NGOs which focus on religious freedom and protection watch. This is being done to “drive the issue of religious freedom more aggressively globally” according to Ambassador Sam Brownback. This is an important and possibly an effective development in promoting religious freedom in foreign policy discourse.

https://eurasiantimes.com/china-pak...stly-muslims-at-the-receiving-end-us-reports/

 

[Itachi]

Do you how much you should trust US, that's what the they of you.

China, Pakistan, Saudi Worst for Human Rights; Mostly Muslims at the Receiving End – US Reports
By EurAsian Times

June 23, 2019

The Annual Report on Religious Freedom, released this year has turned quite a few heads at the increasing atrocities towards minorities across the globe especially in China, Pakistan and Saudi Arabia. The US Secretary of State, Mike Pompeo had a few scathing statements regarding the state of affairs on global religious freedom. The findings along with the statements made by Pompeo been a cause of many foreign states going on the offensive and calling the report ‘biased’ and ‘incendiary’ in nature.

The report is an overview of the large-scale atrocities addressed across 28 nations. It talks about the many governments and non-government actors targeting religious minorities. According to the report, religious freedom continues to deteriorate across the globe. The most violent crimes included genocide, religious marginalisation, forced displacement, rape, enslavement and other such activities that curtail humanity.

One of the major topics of heated discussion was upon the stringent blasphemy laws that impinge the freedom of religious expression in Pakistan. The Secretary of State Mike Pompeo, speaking at the release of the report, estimated that there are more than 40 people who are presently serving life sentences or facing execution for blasphemy in Pakistan.

Aasiya Bibi, a Pakistani-Christian, was convicted of blasphemy in 2010 and sentenced to death. Bibi was found guilty for insinuating curses at the Islamic faith. The law of land for blasphemy in Pakistan includes life imprisonment and/or death.

There were many threats to her family and many Islamic clerics had openly put up a bounty for her death. Among those in support of her acquittal were harassed and physically harmed or even killed. Despite public protests against her, Bibi was acquitted on appeal in 2018 and allowed to leave for Canada.

Pompeo also criticised the Chinese government for its strong and violent persecution of the Muslim Uighurs in Xinjiang province. As an ethnic minority, the Uighurs, have been reportedly kept in “conditions similar to internment camps”. The Human Rights Watch suggests that the Uighur community is being subjected to intense surveillance and media are almost completely banned from the area.

Allegedly anyone found to contact abroad is being targeted and systematically punished. The State Department added that the abuses of religious freedom in China and especially in the Xinjiang province is unbelievable.

“In China, the government’s intense persecution of many faiths – Falun Gong practitioners, Christians, and Tibetan Buddhists among them – is the norm,” Pompeo said. The statement alluding to the systematic oppression of the Falun Gong spiritual movement over the feigned idea that the movement is supposedly ‘superstitious in nature and a foreign-driven menace to society’.

The Chinese government has reportedly persecuted almost 3000 documented practitioners. The other instances of persecution of Tibetan Buddhists and Christians have long been Party Headquarters agenda. All these cases were specifically mentioned in the report about China.

A rather interesting development in this report is the criticism of Saudi Arabia. The Trump administration has often shied away from bad-mouthing Saudi Arabia owing to its bountiful vested trade interests. The detainment of more than thousand Shias for non-violent offences has been something that has been touched upon in the report, portraying discrimination on their part.

The rise of Crown Prince of Saudi Arabia, Mohammed Bin Salman Al Saud, has hardly been able to garner the same positive momentum that was initially found to be the case. Sam Brownback, Ambassador at-Large for International Religious Freedom, is of the view that the ascend of the Crown Prince has been rather disappointing.

“I think there was a lot of hope at first in the change of leadership that things would open up substantially. They continue to be one of the worst actors in the world on religious persecution. We need to see actions take place in a positive direction,” he told reporters.

In April, which was after the timeframe of the 2018 report, Saudi Arabia conducted a mass execution of 37 people, most of them Shiites. The charges of execution ranged from alleged involvement in terrorist activities, espionage and protest-related offences.

Humans Rights Watch (HRW) suggested that one of the Saudi Shias was crucified after being beheaded, while the UN rights chief said at least three of those executed were minors when charged. Among the 37 people charged, 33 of them were Shia, which makes the act premeditated.

Michael Paige, deputy Middle East Director at HRW, suggests that the Saudis are falsely claiming that the detainees had extremist tendencies and that there is an utter lack of due process in their conviction and execution. The ‘criminals’ were solely condemned on the basis of confessions that were credibly found to be coerced.

The various inputs within the report make for an interesting insight into the impending danger of incited violence from various actors that has seemingly led to a pandemic. During the press release of the report, Mike Pompeo announced that the United States would host the first-ever “Ministerial to Advance Religious Freedom”.

This Ministerial would bring together governments, religious community leaders, NGOs which focus on religious freedom and protection watch. This is being done to “drive the issue of religious freedom more aggressively globally” according to Ambassador Sam Brownback. This is an important and possibly an effective development in promoting religious freedom in foreign policy discourse.

https://eurasiantimes.com/china-pak...stly-muslims-at-the-receiving-end-us-reports/

Again, this is about China, not Pakistan. I already know of the conditions in Pakistan, I don't deny them like a brainwashed zombie.

 

[Brainsucker]

You come off as either a false flagger or a Chinese boot licker. Either way, just like the Chinese, you're spreading your lies and half truths here on PDF.

@Indos here has already explained that the Indonesian govt. doesn't feel satisfied with the Chinese govt. over the Uyghur issue so I don't know why here, on PDF on all places, you're supporting the Chinese propaganda effort.

Providing Halal food and Universities comes under the package of basic human rights, it's nothing to gloat over. You can find the same things in the West and other Asian countries where Muslims are a minority. What matters is putting those Muslim minorities under scrutiny for their beliefs.

@Rasengan same goes for you. You can stop making the Chinese seem like holier than thou, the truth is our there and everyone can see the atrocities of the Chinese in Xinjiang.

U.S. official denounces 'choreographed' visits to China's Xinjiang

BEIJING (Reuters) - “Highly choreographed” tours to Xinjiang organized by the Chinese government are misleading and propagate false narratives about the troubled region, a U.S. official said, after China announced plans to invite European envoys to visit.

China has been stepping up a push to counter growing criticism in the West and among rights groups about a controversial de-radicalization program in heavily Muslim Xinjiang, which borders Central Asia.

Critics say China is operating internment camps for Uighurs and other Muslim peoples who live in Xinjiang, though the government calls them vocational training centers and says it has a genuine need to prevent extremist thinking and violence.

China’s foreign ministry said late last week it would invite Beijing-based European diplomats to visit soon. Diplomatic sources said the so-far informal invitation had gone specifically to ambassadors and was planned for this week.

A U.S. government official, asked by Reuters if the U.S. ambassador to China, Terry Branstad, had been invited to visit Xinjiang, said there were no meetings or visits to announce.

“Highly choreographed and chaperoned government-led tours in Xinjiang have propagated false narratives and obfuscated the realities of China’s ongoing human rights abuses in the region,” the official said, speaking on condition of anonymity.

The visit this month would be the first by a large group of Western diplomats to the region since international concern about Xinjiang’s security clampdown began intensifying last year. Hundreds have died in unrest in Xinjiang in recent years.

Several groups of diplomats from other countries have already been brought to Xinjiang on tightly scripted trips since late December to visit the facilities.

There have been two visits by groups including European diplomats to Xinjiang this year. One was a small group of EU diplomats, and the other by a group of diplomats from a broader mix of countries, including missions from Greece, Hungary and North African and Southeast Asian states.

A Reuters journalist visited on a government-organized trip in January.


The U.S. official described what was happening in Xinjiang as “a highly repressive campaign”, and said claims that the facilities were “humane job-training centers” or “boarding schools” were not credible.

“We will continue to call on China to end these counterproductive policies, free all those who have been arbitrarily detained, and cease efforts to coerce members of its Muslim minority groups residing abroad to return to China to face an uncertain fate.”

China’s Foreign Ministry did not immediately respond to a request for comment. China has rejected all foreign criticism of its policies in Xinjiang, and says it invites foreigners to visit to help them better understand the region.

Earlier this month, the U.S. State Department said China’s treatment of Muslims in Xinjiang marked the worst human rights abuses “since the 1930s”.

The issue of Xinjiang adds another irritant to already strained ties between Washington and Beijing, who are trying to end a bitter trade war and have several other areas of disagreement, including the disputed South China Sea and U.S. support for Chinese-claimed Taiwan.

Late last year, more than a dozen ambassadors from Western countries, including France, Britain, Germany and the EU’s top envoy in Beijing, wrote to the government to seek a meeting with Xinjiang’s top official, Communist Party chief Chen Quanguo, to discuss their concerns about the rights situation.

The administration of U.S. President Donald Trump has weighed sanctions against senior Chinese officials in Xinjiang, including Chen.

Two diplomatic sources told Reuters on Saturday that government officials had said a meeting with Chen was not being offered to the European ambassadors, and that the trip was not to discuss human rights but to talk about China-Europe cooperation on President Xi Jinping’s signature Belt and Road project.

It remains unclear whether they would accept the invitation, though the two sources said it was unlikely.

The European Union’s embassy in Beijing has declined to comment on the invitation.


Xi is currently in Europe on a state visit to Italy, Monaco and France. Chinese Premier Li Keqiang goes to Brussels next month for a China-EU summit.

EU leaders said on Friday the bloc must recognize that China is as much a competitor as a partner.

Reporting by Ben Blanchard; Additional reporting by John Ruwitch in SHANGHAI; Editing by Sam Holmes

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-china-xinjiang-usa/u-s-official-denounces-choreographed-visits-to-chinas-xinjiang-idUSKCN1R503R

@Pan-Islamic-Pakistan @Indos @Dubious

With this hostile attitude like this, I don't think that there is no room for any discussion between us. It just a waste of my breath because nothing that I can do to change your mind; nor you have any polite means to change mine. You just want to attack me with your hostile intention, so why should I bother.

@Pan-Islamic-Pakistan @Indos @Dubious It's up to you guys. You know what my position in this discussion. If you think that I'm just a troll, I have nothing to say about it.

 

[Itachi]

With this hostile attitude like this, I don't think that there is no room for any discussion between us. It just a waste of my breath because nothing that I can do to change your mind; nor you have any polite means to change mine. You just want to attack me with your hostile intention, so why should I bother.

lol kiddo....I'm being hostile??

Damn.....stop being offended by words of a stranger on the internet.

 

[Rasengan]

I love them, I grew up in Haidian district in Beijing, in Beijing, students go to schools in the districts they live, I lived close to 中央民族大学 Central university of nationalities (a strange English name), many of my childhood friends are Uighurs, but they were also born and grew up in Beijing like me, so they are also Beijingers. I love their unique culture and food, their parents often treat me with delicious Xinjiang food when I visited them, Xinjiang food is still my favorite food today.

Thank you. I am familiar with Haidian district it has many mosques in close proximity to each other. Xinjiang food is very nice, and since you enjoy the cuisine then that means you will be a big fan of Pakistani food if you happen to eat it in the future Xinjiang barbeque is very similar to Pakistani barbeque.

This is what Chinese people need to highlight brother, stories such as the one mentioned in your post. People can be very ignorant like I mentioned in my previous post, so the Chinese must educate them. If you apply anger then you will allow them to trap you. Once again, thank you, for telling us a story from your childhood. I hope you all continue to remain friends. I love Beijing, the city had character.

 

[Rasengan]

You come off as either a false flagger or a Chinese boot licker. Either way, just like the Chinese, you're spreading your lies and half truths here on PDF.

@Indos here has already explained that the Indonesian govt. doesn't feel satisfied with the Chinese govt. over the Uyghur issue so I don't know why here, on PDF on all places, you're supporting the Chinese propaganda effort.

Providing Halal food and Universities comes under the package of basic human rights, it's nothing to gloat over. You can find the same things in the West and other Asian countries where Muslims are a minority. What matters is putting those Muslim minorities under scrutiny for their beliefs.

@Rasengan same goes for you. You can stop making the Chinese seem like holier than thou, the truth is our there and everyone can see the atrocities of the Chinese in Xinjiang.

I can write whatever I like Why do you have a terrible itch if I support the Chinese? You won't change my opinion on the Chinese people. You see @beijingwalker this is a prime example of someone who can't handle the idea of a Pakistani supporting China, but he can't do anything, except moan on a forum.

@Pan-Islamic-Pakistan I remember you said previously no Chinese member has the right to question a Pakistani poster on his loyalty to the country, doesn't that apply to us as well? What right does @Itachi have in calling @Brainsucker a Chinese bootlicker and an Indonesian false flagger?

 

[Dubious]

Do you how much you should trust US, that's what the they of you.

China, Pakistan, Saudi Worst for Human Rights; Mostly Muslims at the Receiving End – US Reports
By EurAsian Times

June 23, 2019

The Annual Report on Religious Freedom, released this year has turned quite a few heads at the increasing atrocities towards minorities across the globe especially in China, Pakistan and Saudi Arabia. The US Secretary of State, Mike Pompeo had a few scathing statements regarding the state of affairs on global religious freedom. The findings along with the statements made by Pompeo been a cause of many foreign states going on the offensive and calling the report ‘biased’ and ‘incendiary’ in nature.

The report is an overview of the large-scale atrocities addressed across 28 nations. It talks about the many governments and non-government actors targeting religious minorities. According to the report, religious freedom continues to deteriorate across the globe. The most violent crimes included genocide, religious marginalisation, forced displacement, rape, enslavement and other such activities that curtail humanity.

One of the major topics of heated discussion was upon the stringent blasphemy laws that impinge the freedom of religious expression in Pakistan. The Secretary of State Mike Pompeo, speaking at the release of the report, estimated that there are more than 40 people who are presently serving life sentences or facing execution for blasphemy in Pakistan.

Aasiya Bibi, a Pakistani-Christian, was convicted of blasphemy in 2010 and sentenced to death. Bibi was found guilty for insinuating curses at the Islamic faith. The law of land for blasphemy in Pakistan includes life imprisonment and/or death.

There were many threats to her family and many Islamic clerics had openly put up a bounty for her death. Among those in support of her acquittal were harassed and physically harmed or even killed. Despite public protests against her, Bibi was acquitted on appeal in 2018 and allowed to leave for Canada.

Pompeo also criticised the Chinese government for its strong and violent persecution of the Muslim Uighurs in Xinjiang province. As an ethnic minority, the Uighurs, have been reportedly kept in “conditions similar to internment camps”. The Human Rights Watch suggests that the Uighur community is being subjected to intense surveillance and media are almost completely banned from the area.

Allegedly anyone found to contact abroad is being targeted and systematically punished. The State Department added that the abuses of religious freedom in China and especially in the Xinjiang province is unbelievable.

“In China, the government’s intense persecution of many faiths – Falun Gong practitioners, Christians, and Tibetan Buddhists among them – is the norm,” Pompeo said. The statement alluding to the systematic oppression of the Falun Gong spiritual movement over the feigned idea that the movement is supposedly ‘superstitious in nature and a foreign-driven menace to society’.

The Chinese government has reportedly persecuted almost 3000 documented practitioners. The other instances of persecution of Tibetan Buddhists and Christians have long been Party Headquarters agenda. All these cases were specifically mentioned in the report about China.

A rather interesting development in this report is the criticism of Saudi Arabia. The Trump administration has often shied away from bad-mouthing Saudi Arabia owing to its bountiful vested trade interests. The detainment of more than thousand Shias for non-violent offences has been something that has been touched upon in the report, portraying discrimination on their part.

The rise of Crown Prince of Saudi Arabia, Mohammed Bin Salman Al Saud, has hardly been able to garner the same positive momentum that was initially found to be the case. Sam Brownback, Ambassador at-Large for International Religious Freedom, is of the view that the ascend of the Crown Prince has been rather disappointing.

“I think there was a lot of hope at first in the change of leadership that things would open up substantially. They continue to be one of the worst actors in the world on religious persecution. We need to see actions take place in a positive direction,” he told reporters.

In April, which was after the timeframe of the 2018 report, Saudi Arabia conducted a mass execution of 37 people, most of them Shiites. The charges of execution ranged from alleged involvement in terrorist activities, espionage and protest-related offences.

Humans Rights Watch (HRW) suggested that one of the Saudi Shias was crucified after being beheaded, while the UN rights chief said at least three of those executed were minors when charged. Among the 37 people charged, 33 of them were Shia, which makes the act premeditated.

Michael Paige, deputy Middle East Director at HRW, suggests that the Saudis are falsely claiming that the detainees had extremist tendencies and that there is an utter lack of due process in their conviction and execution. The ‘criminals’ were solely condemned on the basis of confessions that were credibly found to be coerced.

The various inputs within the report make for an interesting insight into the impending danger of incited violence from various actors that has seemingly led to a pandemic. During the press release of the report, Mike Pompeo announced that the United States would host the first-ever “Ministerial to Advance Religious Freedom”.

This Ministerial would bring together governments, religious community leaders, NGOs which focus on religious freedom and protection watch. This is being done to “drive the issue of religious freedom more aggressively globally” according to Ambassador Sam Brownback. This is an important and possibly an effective development in promoting religious freedom in foreign policy discourse.

https://eurasiantimes.com/china-pak...stly-muslims-at-the-receiving-end-us-reports/

And you asked me when you drag in Pakistan. ...you just did...

In fact you do so often it's like a trigger response...

When can't reply drag in Pakistan and point out about it

Thread is about China keep it that way!

With this hostile attitude like this, I don't think that there is no room for any discussion between us. It just a waste of my breath because nothing that I can do to change your mind; nor you have any polite means to change mine. You just want to attack me with your hostile intention, so why should I bother.

@Pan-Islamic-Pakistan @Indos @Dubious It's up to you guys. You know what my position in this discussion. If you think that I'm just a troll, I have nothing to say about it.

You call that hostile? Have you seen how Chinese members shamelessly attack here?

Have you read their off topic posts?
I just caught beijingwalker dragging in Pakistan AGAIN coz he can't answer about US visit to concentration camp while he himself presented foreigners visit to concentration camp from chinese sources. ..but when we use western sources with interviews he drags in Pakistan saudi or any Muslim country he can think off....

Why foreign delegates on chinese paper is acceptable but same foreign delegates on Western paper is propaganda?

 

[Dubious]

They can't admit a mistake if it doesn't exist.

Wow that is so wrong ...to err is human! It is human nature to make a mistake and claiming they don't us just a lie

Religious oppression is not the state policy of the CPC Govt.

It is...
Two chinese members already admitted it that public display of religion is not allowed in public places,, even institutions meaning a student or an employee can't conduct 5 daily prayer in a public institution...or are you telling me those 2 chinese members are re lying and you with Pakistani flags know better just coz you have been to China or have chinese friends? ...when France did this it was challenged and called a violation of basic human right to practice religion.

It is a violation of human rights even if it is not how they see it or how their laws see it!

But have they made a mistake on policy. Of course, they have but why are they accountable to foreign Govt's? Its the internal matter of China just like I don't like the west interfering with our internal policies in Pakistan. Like I told you before, China has evolved since 1978, things will further improve as time goes by. They will have to reform on a whole number of issues

You are contradicting yourself again ...first you said there is no mistake then you claimed yes there is a mistake but it is internal matter...

Well internal matter should also prevent Buddhism and prevent monks from walking around in public places like temples, yea?

Pakistanis have absolutely no problem with them fighting separatists as they feel fit but
to actually oppress them is against basic human rights....
To lock them in concentration camps in oppression of basic human rights.
To prevent them from preforming their religion 5x a day for years coz they are in a public concentration camp is basic abuse of right the religion. ..

And if it internal matter what has China done to reduce the tension except force feed these people the Han way?

When you oppress a nation or people...foreign powers will come in to these people and give them findings to cause chaos...With falso hopes that they are bring helped when really foreign powers are causing trouble.....so if China doesn't fix it...they are doomed in the future!
And we can't have another problematic border coz of China's blind ego of failing to see what they do wrong

I don't disagree with this point of view. Clearly, the CPC Govt must find a solution to this problem to bring in harmony. In regards to Islamic education, there are many institutions across China. I forgot the name of the road, but within Beijing itself they have a school for Islamic education for Muslim boys and girls. Yunnan, in particular, is famous for having a number of schools. But on the whole, I agree. If China doesn't change some of its policies then in the long term it will end badly. The consequence will be severe as a whole generation of Uighurs can be radicalized for the wrong purpose.

And Pakistan's concern is legit because we don't want another unstable border being exploited by foreigners coz China failed it's people

 

[beijingwalker]

And you asked me when you drag in Pakistan. ...you just did...

In fact you do so often it's like a trigger response...

When can't reply drag in Pakistan and point out about it

Thread is about China keep it that way!


You call that hostile? Have you seen how Chinese members shamelessly attack here?

I was quoting what US says since he used US official statement as an undisputable source, you can claim I also drag Saudi Arabia in.

 

[beijingwalker]

And Pakistan's concern is legit because we don't want another unstable border being exploited by foreigners coz China failed it's people

I m not in the mood to argue with you now, but I can tell you that China doesn't fail her people, we Chinese are the ones to judge if our government fails us or not, not foreigners, US accused us of being a failed state for 7 decades , China is not prefect but she is also not a failed state just because you and US say so.

As for a stable border, Pakistan has no other borders that are more stable than the ones with China, so you don't have to worry.

 

[Rasengan]

Wow that is so wrong ...to err is human! It is human nature to make a mistake and claiming they don't us just a lie

There's nothing wrong. Why should a human being admit to a mistake if he hasn't committed a crime? The same analogy can be used on the Chinese Govt. Why should they admit to a mistake on religious oppression when it doesn't exist. It's an illusion created by vested interests to weaken China of which some Pakistani's have fallen for without ever visiting the country.

It is...
Two chinese members already admitted it that public display of religion is not allowed in public places,, even institutions meaning a student or an employee can't conduct 5 daily prayer in a public institution...or are you telling me those 2 chinese members are re lying and you with Pakistani flags know better just coz you have been to China or have chinese friends? ...when France did this it was challenged and called a violation of basic human right to practice religion.

It is a violation of human rights even if it is not how they see it or how their laws see it!

The Chinese don't allow prayers in public places but that is for all religious and ethnic groups. Chinese New Year is an excellent example. They don't allow large groups of people to conduct the dragon dance but they can do it within the indoor area. I don't agree with this policy, it needs to change, but you are advocating this policy is made just for Muslim's. In China, if you want to become a member of the communist's party then you must have no religious affiliation. People are given a choice, whether they accept it is their business. Do I agree with this policy? No. Does that mean people who work for State Owned Enterprises can't pray? They can, as in most SOEs you have a two-hour break and my colleagues prayed at the Nandouya Mosque. The problem with most Pakistani's on this issue is they are looking at this problem from a distance. Whatever your opinion is on the subject at least visit the country before giving a verdict.

You are contradicting yourself again ...first you said there is no mistake then you claimed yes there is a mistake but it is internal matter...

You need to read things in context. I have never said the Chinese Govt has never made a mistake, but I don't agree it's based upon religious oppression. When I was referring to issues being an internal matter of China I gave many examples of policies which you ignored. For example the housing problem, University exemptions, and language. On these issues, the Chinese Govt is accountable to no foreign Govt.

I have outlined quite extensively, how some accusations are simply false like Uighurs are forced to drink alcohol, forced to eat pork, are forbidden to wear religious caps under the age 40, forbidden to pray or keep fast during Ramadan. Repeating an accusation 100 times won't still make it true.

Well internal matter should also prevent Buddhism and prevent monks from walking around in public places like temples, yea?

Buddhist don't pray in public places, they do it inside there place of worship which is a temple. The same applies to Muslim's, they can pray inside a mosque. @beijingwalker is from Haidian district in Beijing and there are many mosques for Muslim worshippers.

Pakistanis have absolutely no problem with them fighting separatists as they feel fit but
to actually oppress them is against basic human rights....
To lock them in concentration camps in oppression of basic human rights.
To prevent them from preforming their religion 5x a day for years coz they are in a public concentration camp is basic abuse of right the religion. ..

Clearly, some Pakistani's do. In another thread, @Itachi was openly supporting the separatist's groups which have triggered some Chinese members. The rest of your post has been answered. It's your assumption, that they are being oppressed inside those camps, but like with all widescale oppression you have an uprising. History is a testament to this fact. The Jews were oppressed and the Warsaw Ghetto rebellion occurred. The Isreali's were oppressing the Palestinians and we had the intifada. Who is the police force in Xinjiang? Uighur. What about the local bureacracy? Uighur.

And if it internal matter what has China done to reduce the tension except force feed these people the Han way?

You didn't answer my question. There are ten ethnic Muslim groups in China. But for argument sake let's focus on the largest group the Hui. Is Hui culture forced to follow the Han culture? If your answer is yes, then your knowledge is limited. Why do the Uighurs in large numbers hate all other Muslim groups? Integrating with society doesn't mean following the Han culture. It means co-existing with your neighbours and not having prejudices based upon ethnicities. Lets ask @beijingwalker. Do the people of Dai who come from Yunnan province or Hui follow Han culture?

 

[beijingwalker]

What do girls do in their dormitaries in Xinjiang concentration camps

After class, Concentration campers always go for snacks in concentration camp grocery stores.