Chhatrapati
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No, not everything is a religion. Atheism is not a religion. So is Agnostic beliefs.
ALL Xinjiang related issues e.g. uyghur people, development, videos etc, In here please.
- Thread starter beijingwalker
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rott
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Okay, I give this to you. You know religion better.
Chhatrapati
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Insider information bruh...Okay, I give this to you. You know religion better.
Dungeness
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If prayer works, you would have been a superpower by now.
Gandhi G in da house
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Comparing Kashmir to Xinjiang situation is not only inaccurate, it's a desperate attempt of people to divert from the severity of what is going on in Xinjiang.
The people of Kashmir can freely practice their religion and do whatever they want. Nobody is trying to get them to leave their religion or not practice it. Yes, the Indian army is there and that can sometimes lead to human rights abuses. It always happens when army is stationed in civilian areas. Now, why is the Indian army there ? In 1989, the Kashmiris, with the support of Afghan Jihad returneed from Pakistan, became violent and started killing and massacring the minority Hindu Kashmiris. Hundreds of Kashmiri Hindus were massacred and the remaining ran away from the valley, leaving their homes and properties behind to save their lives and are living as refugees in their own country now. Their separatist movement became violent. And so, the Indian army stepped in Kashmir Valley in 1989. There was no Indian army in the streets of Kashmir before that. And why does the army continue to be there ? Because the Kashmiri movement is still violent and aggressive and jihadis are still constantly flowing in from Pakistan from the likes of Jaish e Mohammad and Lashkar e Taiba. Despite all this, India is not trying to drive them away from their religion. We are only trying to ensure that they stay peaceful. But admittedly, human rights violations have happened, which is always true in any part of the world when army is stationed in a civilian area.
Compare this to Xinjiang. Are the Ughurs violent ? No. Have they attempted to massacre the minority Han Chinese population living there ? No. Is there an ultra violent separatist movement there with constant flow of Jihadis from neighbouring countries ? No. Yet, they are doing what they are doing. something that is not happening in Kashmir. i don't need to leaborate on what that is.
All in all, situation of Uighurs is worse than Kashmiris and despite there not being any justifcation for it.
The people of Kashmir can freely practice their religion and do whatever they want. Nobody is trying to get them to leave their religion or not practice it. Yes, the Indian army is there and that can sometimes lead to human rights abuses. It always happens when army is stationed in civilian areas. Now, why is the Indian army there ? In 1989, the Kashmiris, with the support of Afghan Jihad returneed from Pakistan, became violent and started killing and massacring the minority Hindu Kashmiris. Hundreds of Kashmiri Hindus were massacred and the remaining ran away from the valley, leaving their homes and properties behind to save their lives and are living as refugees in their own country now. Their separatist movement became violent. And so, the Indian army stepped in Kashmir Valley in 1989. There was no Indian army in the streets of Kashmir before that. And why does the army continue to be there ? Because the Kashmiri movement is still violent and aggressive and jihadis are still constantly flowing in from Pakistan from the likes of Jaish e Mohammad and Lashkar e Taiba. Despite all this, India is not trying to drive them away from their religion. We are only trying to ensure that they stay peaceful. But admittedly, human rights violations have happened, which is always true in any part of the world when army is stationed in a civilian area.
Compare this to Xinjiang. Are the Ughurs violent ? No. Have they attempted to massacre the minority Han Chinese population living there ? No. Is there an ultra violent separatist movement there with constant flow of Jihadis from neighbouring countries ? No. Yet, they are doing what they are doing. something that is not happening in Kashmir. i don't need to leaborate on what that is.
All in all, situation of Uighurs is worse than Kashmiris and despite there not being any justifcation for it.
denel
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Well put, regretfully the communists never learn - people faith prevails still at the end. Hu Angang justification for uniformism etc is gone beyond. Think of this way, you will never find a chinese on this forum that is not sanction by the party or is a chinese party paid troll to keep in check what is highlighted - when they could massacre thousands of students - try to locate any of the students from the videos from tiannenmin - you wont find any; they have all disappeared - either killed or buried in some unknown camp. To the extent Zhao Ziyang's name also has been erased. The new commie party is out of control and trying to re-live a quasi cultural revolution where Mao and Commies are gods like in North Korea.
Anyway, coming from a faith that has been prosecuted and genocide enacted on; to see these wretched commies hit minorities who cannot fight back is a cause I take up. Everyone has a right to practise their faith and live in peace. What is next, will they put up gas chambers - people faith and will can never be exterminated so will these bastards go one level up or are they trying to emulate their protege Kim next door.
It is Eid tomorrow in my country and it is amazing to see where moslems are just less than 5% yet halal is catered for all over the place including prayer rooms at all major petrol stations, airports, hospitals across the country. In diversity lies strength unlike the Commies who want to create donkeys of same colour.
fisher1
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When it comes to Chinese authorities' eagerness to manage perceptions of the way they treat Muslim citizens in the Xinjiang region, it would be hard to beat a recent musical performance staged for an audience of foreign journalists.
On the fifth day of a government-sponsored media tour last month, at a detention facility in the far-western city of Kashgar, two dozen Uighur detainees belted out the American children's song "If You're Happy and You Know It, Clap Your Hands."
The group of adults, some as old as 40 and dressed in colorful ethnic Uighur costumes, stumbled over the English lyrics. From the front of a classroom, their teacher guided them to stand up, sing and — at the song's cue — clap their hands in unison: an attempt to show the visiting group of skeptical reporters that, despite the circumstances, they were living up to the lyrics.
It was a tough sell. The detainees have been locked away for months — for being, as authorities put it, "infected with extremist thoughts." The U.S. and United Nations estimate that China has detained hundreds of thousands of Uighurs and other Muslims in internment camps in the vast, predominantly Muslim region of Xinjiang.
Some who have been released and managed to flee China have described these places to NPR as concentration camps where authorities brainwash detainees with Communist Party doctrine. Some claim they were tortured.
China's government calls these places "vocational training centers." Last month's media tour at two of the camps displayed a choreographed attempt to change a narrative that is spinning out of Beijing's control.
THE DISAPPEARED: CHINA'S DRACONIAN IMPRISONMENT OF A PEOPLE
'They Ordered Me To Get An Abortion': A Chinese Woman's Ordeal In Xinjiang
Mejit Mahmut, the ethnic Uighur principal of what authorities call the Kashgar Vocational Education and Training Center, insists that the 1,500 students under his watch, most of whom are Uighur, are treated well and are free to return home to their families on weekends.
"People here have been infected by extremist thoughts," says Mahmut. "They broke the relevant laws, but their crimes are so minor that they are exempted from criminal punishment. The government wants to save and educate them, converting them here at this center."
Mahmut says detainees spend their days taking classes in Mandarin (which many of them don't speak) and Chinese law (to understand the laws they allegedly broke) and learning vocational skills that can lead them into careers as tour guides, online retailers or electricians. Mahmut says the Kashgar government "has proof" that it has been able to prevent terrorist activities through this type of training.
When pressed, he's not able to offer evidence of this. Instead, he explains how students ended up at his facility.
"Some believed extremist ideas like killing nonbelievers would result in them going to heaven, so they participated in some activities that undermined social stability," he says. "Others overgeneralized the concept of halal," he says — what is permissible under Islamic law.
"They considered many things un-halal," he continues. "They believed government-issued IDs, money and daily appliances were from nonbelievers and therefore un-halal. This is a major problem, and they were reported to authorities by their neighbors, and then police will talk to them to tell them what they've done wrong."
Mahmut says students stay in the facility he oversees for an average of eight months and can leave after doing well on exams. But none of the several detainees the government made available to NPR said it was clear when they could return home.
Ayiguyi Abdel-Rahman, a 30-year-old mother of two, says she has been detained for 10 months. Taking a break from her Chinese law class to talk with NPR, she says she doesn't know when she'll get out.
When asked why she had been detained, she responds,
"I have serious extremist thoughts" — echoing nearly every detainee who spoke with NPR. "I made my children participate in religious activities from a young age. And I didn't let them sing and dance in a cultural entertainment activity. I interfered with their personal freedom."
Abdel-Rahman, dressed in a white T-shirt and a pink hoodie, says she also sent welfare checks back to the government because she didn't think they were halal. She didn't allow her children to watch TV cartoons for the same reason. "I'm very grateful for the [Communist] Party and the government for giving me such a good opportunity to study," she says. "I've learned what I should and what I shouldn't do, what is legal and what is illegal, what is religion and what is extremism."
Abdel-Rahman's 25-year-old classmate Yusu Pujiang has been in the facility for eight months and had to quit his job as a salesman to live there. One reason for his detention:
"I forced my wife to stay home and not work," he tells NPR. "I didn't think the money women earned was halal. My neighbors reported me to the authorities."
Pujiang says police also looked through his phone and saw that he had viewed online videos showing Osama bin Laden training al-Qaida members.
Mejit Mahmut is the principal of the Kashgar Vocational Education and Training Center, a facility with 1,500 residents, most of them Uighur. "People here have been infected by extremist thoughts," he says. "The government wants to save and educate them, converting them here at this center."
Rob Schmitz/NPR
"I didn't know I was breaking the law," says Pujiang. "I made a big mistake. But the party and the government thought I was a victim, so they've given me a great opportunity to correct my behavior."
Prior to their incarceration, none of the detainees NPR interviewed had understood that what they had done was against the law, and they didn't understand that their thoughts qualified as extremist according to Chinese authorities' definition.
"When the students arrive here, they don't know what extremist thoughts are," says Hei Lili, a teacher at another detention facility in the city of Atushi. "They learn that here in this facility. Most people in southern Xinjiang don't understand Chinese. They don't know much about China's laws either. They're uneducated and unskilled."
This raises the question that many human rights advocates are asking: Why is it fair to detain Muslims for acting on what the state considers "extremist thoughts" if they don't know what that means?
This question is posed to Du Bin, division chief of the Information Office of China's Office of the State Council, the only Chinese official on the media tour who's willing to speak on the record. His response: "If we only seek justice through due process, as in only punishing terrorists after they fired shots and hurt victims, let me ask you, 'Is seeking justice in procedure still meaningful?' If we take the appropriate actions and stop the attacker before he makes his move, we save the lives of the attacker, his family, and at the same time, we ensure the safety of victims."
Du's justification for interning Muslim minorities in Xinjiang for "extremist thoughts" seems reminiscent of the plotline for the 2002 sci-fi film Minority Report, and he makes it clear to the foreign journalists on the tour that his opinions are his own, not those of the government agency he works for.
"Take the Sri Lanka and 9/11 attacks as examples," Du continues. "What's the point of ensuring justice after due process, when all the victims have been killed? That's why I'm emphasizing the preventative measures the Chinese government takes. It's proven that this measure is the key to fight terrorism."
When asked to clarify if he's saying the Chinese government is detaining those who are about to commit crimes, Du hedges. He reiterates that if people are showing signs of breaking the law, local authorities will decide whether they need to be detained under the region's so-called "de-extremification" laws.
Du says detaining and educating them and providing job skills are all necessary to help the Xinjiang region achieve a national goal of eradicating poverty by 2020.
When pressed to provide the exact number of people inside Xinjiang's network of detention facilities, Du explains why he won't.
"If the Chinese government gives you an exact number that can endure the test of time after conducting a strict census, other countries would say we detained too many people in 'concentration camps,' " he says. "If we give you a small number, you would say the Chinese government is lying, right? We're in a dilemma."
No matter the numbers, the situation for Muslims inside the detention camps is grave, says Serikjan Bilash, director of the Kazakh human rights group Atajurt. The group has collected more than 1,000 testimonies from families of those who have been detained. Many of them have fled across China's northwestern border to Kazakhstan.
"These so-called study centers are prisons," Bilash told NPR last October in Almaty, Kazakhstan's biggest city. "They're hell. It's we in Kazakhstan who are disclosing what is happening in Xinjiang. We aren't afraid to speak up because Kazakhstan is more democratic than China."
Bilash may have spoken too soon. In March, just five months after NPR interviewed him, Kazakh authorities detained him on suspicion of "inciting ethnic hatred." Police conducted a raid on Atajurt's Almaty office. Bilash remains under house arrest. Kazakhstan's government is an ally of Beijing and has positioned itself as "the buckle" in China's trillion-dollar Belt and Road Initiative, its global trade and investment campaign.
Back in Kashgar, as authorities finish up their tour of the Vocational Education and Training Center, they offer journalists a look inside a student dormitory. The detainees say they sleep six to a room in comfortable accommodations. But in one corner of the complex, there is writing etched into a wall. It looks like someone has tried to paint over it, but the message is still legible. The first line: "This room is excellent." Then, underneath: "Bear with it, my heart."
On the fifth day of a government-sponsored media tour last month, at a detention facility in the far-western city of Kashgar, two dozen Uighur detainees belted out the American children's song "If You're Happy and You Know It, Clap Your Hands."
The group of adults, some as old as 40 and dressed in colorful ethnic Uighur costumes, stumbled over the English lyrics. From the front of a classroom, their teacher guided them to stand up, sing and — at the song's cue — clap their hands in unison: an attempt to show the visiting group of skeptical reporters that, despite the circumstances, they were living up to the lyrics.
It was a tough sell. The detainees have been locked away for months — for being, as authorities put it, "infected with extremist thoughts." The U.S. and United Nations estimate that China has detained hundreds of thousands of Uighurs and other Muslims in internment camps in the vast, predominantly Muslim region of Xinjiang.
Some who have been released and managed to flee China have described these places to NPR as concentration camps where authorities brainwash detainees with Communist Party doctrine. Some claim they were tortured.
China's government calls these places "vocational training centers." Last month's media tour at two of the camps displayed a choreographed attempt to change a narrative that is spinning out of Beijing's control.
THE DISAPPEARED: CHINA'S DRACONIAN IMPRISONMENT OF A PEOPLE
'They Ordered Me To Get An Abortion': A Chinese Woman's Ordeal In Xinjiang
Mejit Mahmut, the ethnic Uighur principal of what authorities call the Kashgar Vocational Education and Training Center, insists that the 1,500 students under his watch, most of whom are Uighur, are treated well and are free to return home to their families on weekends.
"People here have been infected by extremist thoughts," says Mahmut. "They broke the relevant laws, but their crimes are so minor that they are exempted from criminal punishment. The government wants to save and educate them, converting them here at this center."
Mahmut says detainees spend their days taking classes in Mandarin (which many of them don't speak) and Chinese law (to understand the laws they allegedly broke) and learning vocational skills that can lead them into careers as tour guides, online retailers or electricians. Mahmut says the Kashgar government "has proof" that it has been able to prevent terrorist activities through this type of training.
When pressed, he's not able to offer evidence of this. Instead, he explains how students ended up at his facility.
"Some believed extremist ideas like killing nonbelievers would result in them going to heaven, so they participated in some activities that undermined social stability," he says. "Others overgeneralized the concept of halal," he says — what is permissible under Islamic law.
"They considered many things un-halal," he continues. "They believed government-issued IDs, money and daily appliances were from nonbelievers and therefore un-halal. This is a major problem, and they were reported to authorities by their neighbors, and then police will talk to them to tell them what they've done wrong."
Mahmut says students stay in the facility he oversees for an average of eight months and can leave after doing well on exams. But none of the several detainees the government made available to NPR said it was clear when they could return home.
Ayiguyi Abdel-Rahman, a 30-year-old mother of two, says she has been detained for 10 months. Taking a break from her Chinese law class to talk with NPR, she says she doesn't know when she'll get out.
When asked why she had been detained, she responds,
"I have serious extremist thoughts" — echoing nearly every detainee who spoke with NPR. "I made my children participate in religious activities from a young age. And I didn't let them sing and dance in a cultural entertainment activity. I interfered with their personal freedom."
Abdel-Rahman, dressed in a white T-shirt and a pink hoodie, says she also sent welfare checks back to the government because she didn't think they were halal. She didn't allow her children to watch TV cartoons for the same reason. "I'm very grateful for the [Communist] Party and the government for giving me such a good opportunity to study," she says. "I've learned what I should and what I shouldn't do, what is legal and what is illegal, what is religion and what is extremism."
Abdel-Rahman's 25-year-old classmate Yusu Pujiang has been in the facility for eight months and had to quit his job as a salesman to live there. One reason for his detention:
"I forced my wife to stay home and not work," he tells NPR. "I didn't think the money women earned was halal. My neighbors reported me to the authorities."
Pujiang says police also looked through his phone and saw that he had viewed online videos showing Osama bin Laden training al-Qaida members.
Mejit Mahmut is the principal of the Kashgar Vocational Education and Training Center, a facility with 1,500 residents, most of them Uighur. "People here have been infected by extremist thoughts," he says. "The government wants to save and educate them, converting them here at this center."
Rob Schmitz/NPR
"I didn't know I was breaking the law," says Pujiang. "I made a big mistake. But the party and the government thought I was a victim, so they've given me a great opportunity to correct my behavior."
Prior to their incarceration, none of the detainees NPR interviewed had understood that what they had done was against the law, and they didn't understand that their thoughts qualified as extremist according to Chinese authorities' definition.
"When the students arrive here, they don't know what extremist thoughts are," says Hei Lili, a teacher at another detention facility in the city of Atushi. "They learn that here in this facility. Most people in southern Xinjiang don't understand Chinese. They don't know much about China's laws either. They're uneducated and unskilled."
This raises the question that many human rights advocates are asking: Why is it fair to detain Muslims for acting on what the state considers "extremist thoughts" if they don't know what that means?
This question is posed to Du Bin, division chief of the Information Office of China's Office of the State Council, the only Chinese official on the media tour who's willing to speak on the record. His response: "If we only seek justice through due process, as in only punishing terrorists after they fired shots and hurt victims, let me ask you, 'Is seeking justice in procedure still meaningful?' If we take the appropriate actions and stop the attacker before he makes his move, we save the lives of the attacker, his family, and at the same time, we ensure the safety of victims."
Du's justification for interning Muslim minorities in Xinjiang for "extremist thoughts" seems reminiscent of the plotline for the 2002 sci-fi film Minority Report, and he makes it clear to the foreign journalists on the tour that his opinions are his own, not those of the government agency he works for.
"Take the Sri Lanka and 9/11 attacks as examples," Du continues. "What's the point of ensuring justice after due process, when all the victims have been killed? That's why I'm emphasizing the preventative measures the Chinese government takes. It's proven that this measure is the key to fight terrorism."
When asked to clarify if he's saying the Chinese government is detaining those who are about to commit crimes, Du hedges. He reiterates that if people are showing signs of breaking the law, local authorities will decide whether they need to be detained under the region's so-called "de-extremification" laws.
Du says detaining and educating them and providing job skills are all necessary to help the Xinjiang region achieve a national goal of eradicating poverty by 2020.
When pressed to provide the exact number of people inside Xinjiang's network of detention facilities, Du explains why he won't.
"If the Chinese government gives you an exact number that can endure the test of time after conducting a strict census, other countries would say we detained too many people in 'concentration camps,' " he says. "If we give you a small number, you would say the Chinese government is lying, right? We're in a dilemma."
No matter the numbers, the situation for Muslims inside the detention camps is grave, says Serikjan Bilash, director of the Kazakh human rights group Atajurt. The group has collected more than 1,000 testimonies from families of those who have been detained. Many of them have fled across China's northwestern border to Kazakhstan.
"These so-called study centers are prisons," Bilash told NPR last October in Almaty, Kazakhstan's biggest city. "They're hell. It's we in Kazakhstan who are disclosing what is happening in Xinjiang. We aren't afraid to speak up because Kazakhstan is more democratic than China."
Bilash may have spoken too soon. In March, just five months after NPR interviewed him, Kazakh authorities detained him on suspicion of "inciting ethnic hatred." Police conducted a raid on Atajurt's Almaty office. Bilash remains under house arrest. Kazakhstan's government is an ally of Beijing and has positioned itself as "the buckle" in China's trillion-dollar Belt and Road Initiative, its global trade and investment campaign.
Back in Kashgar, as authorities finish up their tour of the Vocational Education and Training Center, they offer journalists a look inside a student dormitory. The detainees say they sleep six to a room in comfortable accommodations. But in one corner of the complex, there is writing etched into a wall. It looks like someone has tried to paint over it, but the message is still legible. The first line: "This room is excellent." Then, underneath: "Bear with it, my heart."
fisher1
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My favorite part is this
"They considered many things un-halal," he continues. "They believed government-issued IDs, money and daily appliances were from nonbelievers and therefore un-halal. This is a major problem, and they were reported to authorities by their neighbors, and then police will talk to them to tell them what they've done wrong."
Gotta love the communist bull$%^. I have yet to find anyone, a single soul on this earth who will say money is "unhalal" aka haram.
"They considered many things un-halal," he continues. "They believed government-issued IDs, money and daily appliances were from nonbelievers and therefore un-halal. This is a major problem, and they were reported to authorities by their neighbors, and then police will talk to them to tell them what they've done wrong."
Gotta love the communist bull$%^. I have yet to find anyone, a single soul on this earth who will say money is "unhalal" aka haram.
obj 705A
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come on are you serious? we already had a thread about the Uyghurs you could have just posted this "news" in the same thread, honestly at this point you arent really contributing anything to the forum you are just trolling.
fisher1
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I don't understand your objection. This is a Chinese subforum, Xinjiang is in China. Nobody has a problem with new threads that are positive about China. Why shouldn't there be different threads for Uighurs written by different sources?
It sounds to me like you want to silence the criticism and just shove it in one big thread which will get less visits when people see the number of replies? Hmm
I wish i could get some news about if Uighurs are allowed to celebrate Eid since it's Eid today but this is the next best thing.
Government forces radicalized adults teaching and propagating discrimination into civil deradicalization and education programs.
Radical anti-Chinese U.S. regime mouthpieces: Blame Chinese government for "discrimination" of people who "didnt even know they where doing something wrong".
Everyone hating China: Pretends to not see the layers of irony.
Radical anti-Chinese U.S. regime mouthpieces: Blame Chinese government for "discrimination" of people who "didnt even know they where doing something wrong".
Everyone hating China: Pretends to not see the layers of irony.
waz
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All threads related to Xinjiang should go in here please. This has been asked by Chinese members due to sheer number of threads that are being put up. It's also been agreed to by non-Chinese members who have alternate points.
If there is abuse you will be banned, as I did with two posters today.
If you decide to ignore this thread, you will also be banned.
It's time for some order here.
Thank you and I'm sorry if I sounded harsh in my post.
If there is abuse you will be banned, as I did with two posters today.
If you decide to ignore this thread, you will also be banned.
It's time for some order here.
Thank you and I'm sorry if I sounded harsh in my post.
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