Alexander the Great/ Mauryans/ Graeco-Bactrians

[M. Sarmad]

How many countries do you know that are exclusively the descendants of a proto population?

Why are you so constipated over Indians? To address the question you made only a small % of India would have impact from IVC. Arabs invaded Europe [Iberia] but you don't find their legacy in other end of Europe [Scandanavia].

Question dodging and answering a question with a question?
You are better than that, Indus

 

[MastanKhan]

Yes brother, Raja Porus and his Punjabi soldiers were heroic in their battle with the Greeks and caused massive casualties.

The Greeks described it that they produced one Alexander but every man in this land was an Alexander.

This was also the same thing which the Mughals faced. Babur was so thoroughly impressed by the military prowess of Punjabis and Rajputs that he inducted them in his military and intermarried his family with them.

Punjab had always been the proving ground for various tribes and only the most battle hardened and brave could survive of the constant warfare in this region.

Our ancestors from the very beginning (IVC and onwards) faced constant migrations, invasions, and internecine warfare. This chiseled our nation into a martial one.

Hi,

Many a people don't realize that the greek / macedonian army ran out of the punjab arena as if its tail was on fire---and chose the water route to escape---which was the SAFEST ROUTE and the fastest route for a defeated military---. As if they had suffered a catastrophic loss---and that loss was of the death of Alexander after his defeat at the hands of Porus---.

The thing is---any invading force coming from north and conquering Punjab had only flat lands in front of it to conquer where all the booty---loot and plunder was---.

So---why did this greek / macedonian army literally ran out of the arena---because its leader was dead and they had been defeated at Jhelum---.

 

[Nilgiri]

That Pakistani member has given us the most convincing argument in favour of Pakistan's case on Jammu & Kashmir that it has been my misfortune to encounter. His final argument could not, in fact, be answered, and I am still looking for a legal trained person to rebut his position.

Azlan bhai is highly trained mind that can indeed be quite the challenge to confront well (and in any conclusive way). I do not envy you in that sparring. One of the very few I acknowledge as a master (தலைவன்) here on the forum. You came across another one recently in the China topic too.

@M. Sarmad

 

[Indus Pakistan]

Were the above-mentioned people/group of people the forefathers of Pakistanis only?

No. Over 5,000 years a forefather's footprint spreads out. In 10 generations my DNA might well have spread out amongst 243 individuals. Take ancient Greeks. Traces of them can be found in Italy, North Africa, Turkey, Syria, Lebanon and the general Mediteranean region. But nobody questions that modern Helles is the country that is most closely seen in context of ancient Greece.

or were they also the forefathers of an equal (if not more) number of Indians (the citizens of the present-day Republic of India)?

We can't possibly give numbers for this but certainlyu IVC will have left a genetic print in the wider region, including Afghanistan, Central Asia and India. With respect to India the effect will be greater in regions close to Pakistan. Obviously further you go the effect is dispersed and gets weaker. There might even be traces in Sri Lanka. Humans migrate. You might even get outliers in Myanmar.

To refer to my earlier question this is like asking if the ancient Greeks were forefathers of an equal number or even more in the wider Mediteranean [Turkey, Syria, Lebanon, Palestine, Egypt, Libya, Italy, Cyprus, Algeria, Spain] than are found in Greece itself. The answer would be there might or might not be but that does not change the fact that most equate the Helles republic with ancient Greece.

I mean people don,t go to Tripoli in Libya because some of the population has traces of ancient Greeks and even has some cultural or archeaological artifacts with Greek influence.

I would wish if you could tell us what you are driving at? There is nothing exceptional in any of what we are saying. Any questions or doubts you raise can be applied to Egypt, Greece etc.

 

[LeGenD]

Hi,

Many a people don't realize that the greek / macedonian army ran out of the punjab arena as if its tail was on fire---and chose the water route to escape---which was the SAFEST ROUTE and the fastest route for a defeated military---. As if they had suffered a catastrophic loss---and that loss was of the death of Alexander after his defeat at the hands of Porus---.

The thing is---any invading force coming from north and conquering Punjab had only flat lands in front of it to conquer where all the booty---loot and plunder was---.

So---why did this greek / macedonian army literally ran out of the arena---because its leader was dead and they had been defeated at Jhelum---.

I wonder what stopped Porus from executing Alexander after defeating him; either Porus was the world's greatest idiot [or] your account is utter rubbish.

Alexander's generals were absolutely fatigued after years of warfare, and they advised him to return to Macedonia to create a new army to subjugate the entire subcontinent. Alexander was also injured and needed to take a break.

 

[M. Sarmad]

I would wish if you could tell us what you are driving at? There is nothing exceptional in any of what we are saying. Any questions or doubts you raise can be applied to Egypt, Greece etc.

The disingenuous and precarious assertion that Pakistanis, most of them, do not share common ancestry with Indians cannot be admitted.

 

[MastanKhan]

I wonder what stopped Porus from executing Alexander after defeating him; either Porus was the world's greatest idiot [or] your account is utter rubbish.

Alexander's generals were absolutely fatigued by this time, and they advised him to return to Macedonia to create a new army to subjugate the entire subcontinent. Alexander was also injured and needed to take a break.

Hi,

Your sarcasm is showing a lack of intellect---.
That was a very 'stupid' comment---. Many a commanders generals have escaped in their defeat and so did Alexander with his army---.

He took to the water ways---because that was the fasest way to get out---.

Unlucky for him---a Siraiki---hiding in the reeds---targeted him with his bow and arrow at Tulamba---and let one fly that ended up as a fatal wound for Alexander---.

What a bunch of 'bullcrap' to go back and create a new army---and then do the conquest againn---.

Right there lay the whole of the sub continent for the taking and Alexander let it go---really---.

All excuses---.

 

[Indus Pakistan]

The disingenuous and precarious assertion that Pakistanis, most of them, do not share common ancestry with Indians cannot be admitted.

• Nobody has said Pakistani's are a people unto themselves
• No people are a species. All humans have common ancestry.
• Pakistanis are related to Afghans, Iranians, Central Asians, Indians etc
• No country is made up of population isolate but are blends.
• Are you Indian or from what is today India?
• Pakistani's are unique [be they Sindhi, punjabi, Pakhtuns, Baloch] from Indians as much as English, French, German's, Italians are unique from each other.

 

[LeGenD]

Hi,

Your sarcasm is showing a lack of intellect---.
That was a very 'stupid' comment---. Many a commanders generals have escaped in their defeat and so did Alexander with his army---.

He took to the water ways---because that was the fasest way to get out---.

Unluck for him---a Siraiki---hiding in the reeds---targeted him with his bow and arrow at Tulamba---and let one fly that ended up as a fatal wound for Alexander---.

What a bunch of 'bullcrap' to go back and create a new army---and then do the conquest againn---.

Right there lay the whole of the sub continent for the taking and Alexander let it go---really---.

All excuses---.

Sir, your sheer ignorance is glittering.

Alexander absolutely defeated Porus in the Battle of Hydaspes (no ifs and buts in this case) and his forces continued to advance further; they traversed the rivers Chenab and Ravi and invaded the principality of the Kathaioi (Kathas) next; Alexander's forces slaughtered 17,000 people and took a huge number of captives from this sector alone. As the news of this massacre spread around; another regional King Saubhuti submitted to Alexander without offering resistance. Alexander eventually set his sights on the powerful Nanda Empire but Alexander's generals were absolutely fatigued by this time and advised him to take a break from his relentless conquest spree, return to Macedonia, and create a new army. Therefore, Alexander had to change course and decided to exit from the region (Pakistan) by following the Indus river. However, this retreating maneuver was also mostly on foot and many of his subjects perished in the harsh desert conditions along the way; it took him a year to exit from Pakistan since the Battle of Hydaspes in 325 BC.

Kindly do your homework (read history in proper depth) before questioning somebody else's intellect.

Porus defeating Alexander in the Battle of Hydaspes is REVISIONIST FICTION just like Bollywood's fairytale Padmaavat; come back to your senses and do your homework.

 

[Pakistani E]

There is also a great deal of convergence on the famous language mystery.

That's news to me. Have they found the Rosetta stone for IVC language?

 

[M. Sarmad]

• Pakistani's are unique [be they Sindhi, punjabi, Pakhtuns, Baloch] from Indians as much as English, French, German's, Italians are unique from each other.

You are right
English, French and German languages are mutually intelligible !!

• No people are a species. All humans have common ancestry.
• Pakistanis are related to Afghans, Iranians, Central Asians, Indians etc
• No country is made up of population isolate but are blends.

Agreed
Pakistanis are related to Indians

• Nobody has said Pakistani's are a people unto themselves

Maybe you didn't

 

[Indus Pakistan]

English, French and German languages are mutually intelligible

And fuckin-

• Pashto, Punjabi [asides the Indian Punjab], Sindhi, Baloch are intelligible with 99% of India?
• The Dravidian language of India is more distant then English and German [both are Anglo-Saxon share]
• Irish can't understand English. Dutch can't understand german. Poles can't understand Slovakian etc?

And I ask again are you Indian or of Indian extraction?

Pakistanis are related to Indians

I know you have a hard on for India but Pakistani's are also related to Iranians, Afghans etc.

 

[M. Sarmad]

And fuckin-

• Pashto, Punjabi [asides the Indian Punjab], Sindhi, Baloch are intelligible with 99% of India?
• The Dravidian language of India is more distant then English and German [both are Anglo-Saxon share]
• Irish can't understand English. Dutch can't understand german. Poles can't understand Slovakian etc?

.

Hindi and Urdu are mutually intelligible, Indus

 

[Indus Pakistan]

I actually only recently found out that Poles can understand Slovaks, Serbs and even to a degree Russians. Dutch can pick up German and Danish. Norwegians can pick up Swedish. English can easily talk with Irish, leave alone Yanks, Canadians, Black Jamaicans, Australians etc. French can pick up Waloons in Belguim. Germans, Italians, French can talk to various iterations of Swiss.

Hindi and Urdu are mutually intelligible, Indus

Yes. And these have been imposed on most of the population in Pakistan and India. You do know good chunk of people across the globe speak English? Right?

In fact it just hit me now. There must be dozens of nationalties on PDF from across the globe. Guess what? We all use English. Wonders eh?

 

[M. Sarmad]

Yes. And these have been imposed on most of the population in Pakistan and India. You do know good chunk of people across the globe speak English? Right?

Give it a rest, Indus
seriously