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Franklin Lamb, an international lawyer and director of Americans Concerned for Middle East Peace from Beirut, has joined Press TV’s Debate to discuss the gains and losses of US policies in 2013.
Video:PressTV - ‘Al-Qaeda could also target Israel’
Below is an approximate transcription of the interview.
Press TV: Well, Franklin Lamb let us look at some facts here. As the United States has occupied Afghanistan and formally Iraq, there was a combined population that they had over 60 million, total suicide attacks worldwide to have risen dramatically; we are looking at about 300 from the years 1980 to 2003 to 1800 from 2004 to 2009, not including the past three years and further over 90 percent of these suicide attacks worldwide have become anti-American.
What is your reading into this stat?
Lamb: Well, in a sense I am not surprised by it but just to clarify or offer another view of the analyses from our colleague in London, first of all can we accept this idea of war on terror when we do not even and cannot often even define what terror means?
The primary source of terror in this region is the Zionist occupation of Palestine and when we say that al-Qaeda, that certain governments can never deal with al-Qaeda, that is not accurate, is it?
For example the capture of Majid al-Majid, supposedly of Abdullah Azam Brigade, he was directly sponsored; most analysts who are knowledgeable on the subject say, by Bandar Bin Sultan and the Saudi Intelligence. so certainly governments get involved and manipulate these things as best that they can but I think that it is unfortunate that we use this terror, terror, terror idea.
What is happening is, it is a fact, as your report says, that as a result of misinterpreted events and misapplied policies and the slaughter and frankly, the 15 years of criminal wars, largely..., by Bush and to some extent by Clinton and even Obama administrations in some respects; this is the cause of this current uprising that we are seeing spreading, spreading, spreading, by al-Qaeda.
This organization is opportunistic, if the temperature is right, the humidity is right, there is an opportunity as they have found it in Syria, which is arguably now the world’s center of the so-called Jihadists theater, it is because you give them an opportunity through injustice or a corrupt government and then they spread.
But I think that we are not seeing the withdrawal of the American hegemony; they are taking a different form; I do not accept that there is a break, a profound break, between the Washington and Riyadh, I think that there is just a posturing on that, they need each other. For 40 years here in Lebanon, who was the America and the CIA and William Casey using? It was Saudi Intelligence.
So I think that it is a mistake to say that things are changing in that respect, Americans are becoming back and they have learned a lesson. No! They have not learned a lesson. The things change, the complexion change, the tactics change but the fact of the matter is that there is still a competition.
This region is crossroads, in the crosshairs, of a competition, now between Tehran and Washington and the relationship between those two countries in the coming days is the key, the key to the resolution, not the nuclear file; that is much overplayed but of the crisis in Syria and where it is headed and to many other regional problems.
So some talk about a new Sykes-Picot, it is too early to say that, but the key is, I think, the relations between the Washington and Tehran in the coming days.
Press TV: Franklin Lamb, do you have reaction there? And I am looking at the most recent development of which the US wants to talk to the Islamic Front of which before they deemed them to be terrorist but this idea or this notion of US supporting terrorists and fighting the terrorists and then wanting to talk to them is nothing new; we can talk about the Taliban. But your reaction there, to what Nigel West said?
Lamb: Well, interesting. You know , war for the cause of freedom; and I am not sure that that anybody is claiming these days that the goal of America is to achieve... hegemony.
No! I think that they are not trying to do that; they are trying to recover from sever miscalculations and I think that they are leaning toward the position, or at least Obama administration seems to be, of the Iranians. So that is, Look! come and deal with us on the basis of mutual respect and you will be surprised what the outcome is.
But of course we have supported terrorism and you mentioned Afghanistan and everyone knows about that, the fact of the matter is, we got burned and were got burned again and badly burned and now the American people, among others, have had enough and they want to come home and rebuild America. But I have to, sort of, take an exception to our colleague in London on this point that al-Qaeda has had no spectacular victories recently, the imams are not supporting them, I disagree with that; they have had spectacular victories, the slaughters, the headlines for them, this is a victory. Why? Not because they are interested in displeasing Nigel West or myself but because it is a recruitment tool.
The fact of the matter is that al-Qaeda is growing. For years and years the commentators, many in London, have said ... al-Qaeda is finished, [but] al-Qaeda is not finished, al-Qaeda has never had the kind of opportunity ever that it has got in Syria and it is growing by the hour. So I disagree with that and as far as and as far as the imams, no [dis]respect intended in anyway but you can hire an imam in an hour to say yay or nay among some of these groups.
You know, it is true, they change their position but there is one constant, there seems to be..., with at least some of the groups, and following the subject, one thing that these supposed 10,000 militia would all agree on, and that is the sacredness and the need to liberate al-Quds and the Israelis are making jokes on their websites and all these think tanks but the fact of the matter is the coming focus is going to be Palestine.
And then there is going to be the obligation and opportunity for the Americans to learn from the past, which they have not yet, but there have been some adjustments in the American policy but the big issue looms and the big issue for 2014 is going to be US around militias, it is going to be Syria and it is going to be Palestine and increasingly Palestine, because how the Zionists can have, you know, 1000 or 2000 nuclear weapons, how they are going to stop these people? Plus the support of the international community which is growing plus the support of the local population.
I am not saying that all that is going on is a good thing, no! it is an unimaginable crime almost every day going on but the long-term impacts, not the al-Qaeda is going to contained and go away, they are going to branch, they are going to merge and they are going to develop with other groups..., and I think that Mr. West might agree with this, maybe not, the fundamental cause of the conflict in this region is not American presence, that is a contributing factor, but the fundamental cause was UN General Assembly resolution 194 and the deprivation of inevitable rights of the Palestinian people in the Zionist colony that still exist after some 65 years, the last 19 century colonial enterprise still in existence and its days are numbered. So I see that all of this carnage and slaughter and brutality and crimes going on, it is going to reshape and I believe is going to move on the colony in Palestine.
Press TV: Franklin Lamb in 30 seconds tell us, one of the reasons terrorism has increased is because of the US wars against states that do not pose a threat to America’s national security. Do you agree that some of the operations of the US in countries like Pakistan, through its drone operations, has increased terrorism?
Lamb: I think there is no question about that. I think that that is even acknowledged by many government officials, by the 16-member intelligence community in the US and importantly, increasingly by the American people, as people look at this issue in this region and I disagree with our friend about Palestine.
I think that Palestine is issue, will remain the issue and there are going to be some changes sooner or later but absolutely your statement is correct and the American government, I think, is, to some extent, a small extent, trying to figure out the way out of this. But the way out is, mutual respect and dealing with people on a fair basis and give up these notions that they are going to dominate the region.
The American people do not want to dominate the region and I think that the government is slowly and slowly learning that they have got to have a new model of international relations.
Video:PressTV - ‘Al-Qaeda could also target Israel’
Below is an approximate transcription of the interview.
Press TV: Well, Franklin Lamb let us look at some facts here. As the United States has occupied Afghanistan and formally Iraq, there was a combined population that they had over 60 million, total suicide attacks worldwide to have risen dramatically; we are looking at about 300 from the years 1980 to 2003 to 1800 from 2004 to 2009, not including the past three years and further over 90 percent of these suicide attacks worldwide have become anti-American.
What is your reading into this stat?
Lamb: Well, in a sense I am not surprised by it but just to clarify or offer another view of the analyses from our colleague in London, first of all can we accept this idea of war on terror when we do not even and cannot often even define what terror means?
The primary source of terror in this region is the Zionist occupation of Palestine and when we say that al-Qaeda, that certain governments can never deal with al-Qaeda, that is not accurate, is it?
For example the capture of Majid al-Majid, supposedly of Abdullah Azam Brigade, he was directly sponsored; most analysts who are knowledgeable on the subject say, by Bandar Bin Sultan and the Saudi Intelligence. so certainly governments get involved and manipulate these things as best that they can but I think that it is unfortunate that we use this terror, terror, terror idea.
What is happening is, it is a fact, as your report says, that as a result of misinterpreted events and misapplied policies and the slaughter and frankly, the 15 years of criminal wars, largely..., by Bush and to some extent by Clinton and even Obama administrations in some respects; this is the cause of this current uprising that we are seeing spreading, spreading, spreading, by al-Qaeda.
This organization is opportunistic, if the temperature is right, the humidity is right, there is an opportunity as they have found it in Syria, which is arguably now the world’s center of the so-called Jihadists theater, it is because you give them an opportunity through injustice or a corrupt government and then they spread.
But I think that we are not seeing the withdrawal of the American hegemony; they are taking a different form; I do not accept that there is a break, a profound break, between the Washington and Riyadh, I think that there is just a posturing on that, they need each other. For 40 years here in Lebanon, who was the America and the CIA and William Casey using? It was Saudi Intelligence.
So I think that it is a mistake to say that things are changing in that respect, Americans are becoming back and they have learned a lesson. No! They have not learned a lesson. The things change, the complexion change, the tactics change but the fact of the matter is that there is still a competition.
This region is crossroads, in the crosshairs, of a competition, now between Tehran and Washington and the relationship between those two countries in the coming days is the key, the key to the resolution, not the nuclear file; that is much overplayed but of the crisis in Syria and where it is headed and to many other regional problems.
So some talk about a new Sykes-Picot, it is too early to say that, but the key is, I think, the relations between the Washington and Tehran in the coming days.
Press TV: Franklin Lamb, do you have reaction there? And I am looking at the most recent development of which the US wants to talk to the Islamic Front of which before they deemed them to be terrorist but this idea or this notion of US supporting terrorists and fighting the terrorists and then wanting to talk to them is nothing new; we can talk about the Taliban. But your reaction there, to what Nigel West said?
Lamb: Well, interesting. You know , war for the cause of freedom; and I am not sure that that anybody is claiming these days that the goal of America is to achieve... hegemony.
No! I think that they are not trying to do that; they are trying to recover from sever miscalculations and I think that they are leaning toward the position, or at least Obama administration seems to be, of the Iranians. So that is, Look! come and deal with us on the basis of mutual respect and you will be surprised what the outcome is.
But of course we have supported terrorism and you mentioned Afghanistan and everyone knows about that, the fact of the matter is, we got burned and were got burned again and badly burned and now the American people, among others, have had enough and they want to come home and rebuild America. But I have to, sort of, take an exception to our colleague in London on this point that al-Qaeda has had no spectacular victories recently, the imams are not supporting them, I disagree with that; they have had spectacular victories, the slaughters, the headlines for them, this is a victory. Why? Not because they are interested in displeasing Nigel West or myself but because it is a recruitment tool.
The fact of the matter is that al-Qaeda is growing. For years and years the commentators, many in London, have said ... al-Qaeda is finished, [but] al-Qaeda is not finished, al-Qaeda has never had the kind of opportunity ever that it has got in Syria and it is growing by the hour. So I disagree with that and as far as and as far as the imams, no [dis]respect intended in anyway but you can hire an imam in an hour to say yay or nay among some of these groups.
You know, it is true, they change their position but there is one constant, there seems to be..., with at least some of the groups, and following the subject, one thing that these supposed 10,000 militia would all agree on, and that is the sacredness and the need to liberate al-Quds and the Israelis are making jokes on their websites and all these think tanks but the fact of the matter is the coming focus is going to be Palestine.
And then there is going to be the obligation and opportunity for the Americans to learn from the past, which they have not yet, but there have been some adjustments in the American policy but the big issue looms and the big issue for 2014 is going to be US around militias, it is going to be Syria and it is going to be Palestine and increasingly Palestine, because how the Zionists can have, you know, 1000 or 2000 nuclear weapons, how they are going to stop these people? Plus the support of the international community which is growing plus the support of the local population.
I am not saying that all that is going on is a good thing, no! it is an unimaginable crime almost every day going on but the long-term impacts, not the al-Qaeda is going to contained and go away, they are going to branch, they are going to merge and they are going to develop with other groups..., and I think that Mr. West might agree with this, maybe not, the fundamental cause of the conflict in this region is not American presence, that is a contributing factor, but the fundamental cause was UN General Assembly resolution 194 and the deprivation of inevitable rights of the Palestinian people in the Zionist colony that still exist after some 65 years, the last 19 century colonial enterprise still in existence and its days are numbered. So I see that all of this carnage and slaughter and brutality and crimes going on, it is going to reshape and I believe is going to move on the colony in Palestine.
Press TV: Franklin Lamb in 30 seconds tell us, one of the reasons terrorism has increased is because of the US wars against states that do not pose a threat to America’s national security. Do you agree that some of the operations of the US in countries like Pakistan, through its drone operations, has increased terrorism?
Lamb: I think there is no question about that. I think that that is even acknowledged by many government officials, by the 16-member intelligence community in the US and importantly, increasingly by the American people, as people look at this issue in this region and I disagree with our friend about Palestine.
I think that Palestine is issue, will remain the issue and there are going to be some changes sooner or later but absolutely your statement is correct and the American government, I think, is, to some extent, a small extent, trying to figure out the way out of this. But the way out is, mutual respect and dealing with people on a fair basis and give up these notions that they are going to dominate the region.
The American people do not want to dominate the region and I think that the government is slowly and slowly learning that they have got to have a new model of international relations.
