Ajai Shukla: Making the Tejas fly

[sancho]

I agree that he is not an authority on aerospace matters. But look at the post I was responding to. He is more of an informed defense journo than most defense journos in India, and the suggestion that he shouldn't report on defense was the explicit part I was responding to. (Someone said he should report on kim kardashian than on defense.)

Yes, I know that his pitching of the F-35 was absurd. But he is still a decent defense JOURNALIST on all defense matters. Maybe not an expert, but good enough for a journo even on defence in general.

The point is, it doesn't matter if you are an ex military, or a part time journalist like Shiv Aroor, both are just bloggers and often point out only their opinions. The important point however is the reliability of the infos given and Ajay Shukla proved himself too often to be a fake, EJ 200 wins engine competition for LCA was another example.

 

[sms]

He means to say that Over the years, one of the main reasons behind the slow progress of Tejastest program has been HALs slow rate of production of LCA LSPs. Test program is totally dependent on the number of planes available for flights. HAL has been very slow in churning out LSPs and busy in other projects like IJT etc.

I disagree with your assessment. He is losing focus and not being able to deliver any message. He is confused between design and manufacturing. ADA and HAL are two different commercial entities and both have different R&R. Being a manufacturing company HAL is not obliged to invest on any thing unless it's funded by ADA or HAL have adequate orders to recover the cost. In Tejas case none of above happening.

Additionally he gloating about the Tejas excellent flight and safety record and still accusing HAL for bad quality product. Excellent safety record and bad quality are contradicting.

I'd say that he is a blogger with good links in defense establishments/ Industry but a little knowledge of industrial/ manufacturing processes.

 

[Alfa-Fighter]

I disagree with your assessment. He is losing focus and not being able to deliver any message. He is confused between design and manufacturing. ADA and HAL are two different commercial entities and both have different R&R. Being a manufacturing company HAL is not obliged to invest on any thing unless it's funded by ADA or HAL have adequate orders to recover the cost. In Tejas case none of above happening.

Additionally he gloating about the Tejas excellent flight and safety record and still accusing HAL for bad quality product. Excellent safety record and bad quality are contradicting.

I'd say that he is a blogger with good links in defense establishments/ Industry but a little knowledge of industrial/ manufacturing processes.

The Quality can be judge by the fact from guns supplied to the army and deficiencies found in Arjun Mark-1

But the question asked is about the Assembly line , If fact BAE also point out the Assembly line issue of HAL in past.

BMEL (Tarta) is the perfect example,

 

[zaxcolix]

..... He is losing focus and not being able to deliver any message. He is confused between design and manufacturing. ADA and HAL are two different commercial entities and both have different R&R.

He has clearly differentiated between ADA and HAL and shows no confusion. Are you sure its him who is confused ?

Being a manufacturing company HAL is not obliged to invest on any thing unless it's funded by ADA or HAL have adequate orders to recover the cost. In Tejas case none of above happening.

Wrong. Once HAL has accepted an order placed by the MoD they have an obligation to do the necessary investment and deliver what they have promised to deliver. They cannot do an INS Vikramaditya to IAF.

Additionally he gloating about the Tejas excellent flight and safety record and still accusing HAL for bad quality product. Excellent safety record and bad quality are contradicting.

Accusation against HAL is for questionable quality which has been observed for the last 40-50 years. Tejas excellent design is credited for flight uncharacteristic. Limited amount of Tejas produced under the eagle eyes of the R&D folk's is credited for its Safety record. No contradiction here.

 

[sms]

The Quality can be judge by the fact from guns supplied to the army and deficiencies found in Arjun Mark-1

It's irrelevant, Arjun and guns are not produced by HAL.

But the question asked is about the Assembly line , If fact BAE also point out the Assembly line issue of HAL in past.

It confirms deficiencies in knowledge transfer process and/ or there were issues in tools, jigs and sub system or spec supplied by BAE. They are/were responsible to help setup up production line in HAL as part of contract. There is buzz word in aerospace industry called "copy exact" that implies and makes mandatory for BAE and HAL to setup exact replica of production line and manufacturing process. Again, even if BAE complaint about production facility how does it prove that Tejas produced were sub standard products as highlighted by Mr. Sukla. The excellent safety record tells another story.

BMEL (Tarta) is the perfect example,

Again, It's irrelevant. I'm not able to understand how does quality of product supplied impact Tejas quality.

 

[zaxcolix]

Again, It's irrelevant, BEML is a private company. I'm not able to understand how does quality of trucks supplied impact Tejas quality.

BEML is a private company ? BEML LIMITED, Public Sector Undertaking of Government of India, Ministry of Defence

 

[sms]

^^ I've mixed up with something else. Corrected my post!

 

[Abingdonboy]

You still cant take out the fact that Shukla is a complete numbskull on defense matter whenever it involves Pakistan or China.
There is little realistic threat assessment, just jingoism.

Somewhat agree. On a personal level I like him but as his past job was an IA officer he still seems to carry much f this mindset with him and coming from an army background his knowledge on the air force or navy can be sketchy some times. It is all understandable when you factor in his background his life experiences, his training etc.

Ajai Shukla at his best:

http://www.ndtv.com/video/player/th...-father-s-fight-for-justice/256292?v_also_see


Just tears into the Pakistani army spokesman!

The point is, it doesn't matter if you are an ex military, or a part time journalist like Shiv Aroor, both are just bloggers and often point out only their opinions. The important point however is the reliability of the infos given and Ajay Shukla proved himself too often to be a fake, EJ 200 wins engine competition for LCA was another example.

Shiv Aroor might be a "part-time" journalist but he is a full time idiot IMHO.

 

[zaxcolix]

..thought so ..no problem

 

[SQ8]

What is jingoistic about this? All I can see are criticisms of our only major aerospace unit. How is that jingoism?

When its unrealistic, when the tone is condescending..plain for any one to see.. it is .
Shulka's experience in fighting in T-72's is not a testament to his intelligence or fairness.
In comparison .. some of the best works on India and Pakistan's capabilities have come out of civilian studies who separate fact from fiction when dealing with sources like Shukla.

The contention that he spent 27 years and so that is his qualification to be accepted well should then also not have people critiquing two competing politicians and saying each deserves equal attention because they all did 27 years in the field...

There are many such officers who serve for a long time as "Yes men" and eventually end up making suggestions that the T-90MS has levitation abilities and the MKI will be outfought by the LCA.

I would trust those who are objective and not derailing the subject when talking about defense matters.
Not only is Shukla trying to prove the LCA in regards to the JF-17 in an effort to wash over the programs failures.. he is also discrediting it by doing so in not shining a light on the aircraft itself and spending half the article talking about the JF-17's imagined fallacies.

 

[janon]

When its unrealistic, when the tone is condescending..plain for any one to see.. it is .

1)Shulka's experience in fighting in T-72's is not a testament to his intelligence or fairness.

2) In comparison .. some of the best works on India and Pakistan's capabilities have come out of civilian studies who separate fact from fiction when dealing with sources like Shukla.

The contention that he spent 27 years and so that is his qualification to be accepted well should then also not have people critiquing two competing politicians and saying each deserves equal attention because they all did 27 years in the field...

3) There are many such officers who serve for a long time as "Yes men" and eventually end up making suggestions that the T-90MS has levitation abilities and the MKI will be outfought by the LCA.

I would trust those who are objective and not derailing the subject when talking about defense matters.

4) Not only is Shukla trying to prove the LCA in regards to the JF-17 in an effort to wash over the programs failures.. he is also discrediting it by doing so in not shining a light on the aircraft itself and spending half the article talking about the JF-17's imagined fallacies.

1) True, but as I explained to 'Sancho' earlier, I only brought that up to mention that he does have SOME credibility as a defence journalist. Not saying that that makes him infallible.

2) Could you mention a few? Asking out of academic interest only. Also, what did Shukla make up that is fictional?

3) If you are talking about ajai shukla in particular, he has rooted for the Arjun. Or maybe you are making a different point that I'm missing.

4) I didn't initially read that part, as the OP did not paste that here. I saw the original article now, and I agree that all the references to the JF-17 are unnecessary and pointless. And probably jingoistic.

 

[SQ8]

1) True, but as I explained to 'Sancho' earlier, I only brought that up to mention that he does have SOME credibility as a defence journalist. Not saying that that makes him infallible.

2) Could you mention a few? Asking out of academic interest only. Also, what did Shukla make up that is fictional?

3) If you are talking about ajai shukla in particular, he has rooted for the Arjun. Or maybe you are making a different point that I'm missing.

4) I didn't initially read that part, as the OP did not paste that here. I saw the original article now, and I agree that all the references to the JF-17 are unnecessary and pointless. And probably jingoistic.

2) for eg.. in a historical context.. the book "Indo-Pak air war of 65" by Jagan Mohan and Samir Chopra is one of the most accurate accounts of the war.

3)I am referring to many military officers(and other bloggers) who have unrealistic assessments and expectations due their generally long term but limited exposure. A certain serving colonel in the PA for eg.. was convince that our F-7's were enough to knock MKI's out of the sky.

 

[Abingdonboy]

3) A certain serving colonel in the PA for eg.. was convince that our F-7's were enough to knock MKI's out of the sky.

Sir who was this? I've never heard of this.

 

[SQ8]

Sir who was this? I've never heard of this.

This was somebody I knew who I was to explain a new locally developed SDR to that had AES.. and was left wondering what I was doing with my life.

 

[Kloitra]

What is jingoistic about this? All I can see are criticisms of our only major aerospace unit. How is that jingoism?

You have not read the complete article. There was one para, which I removed. But that para was enough to reveal author's credentials.
I did like his (extreme) criticism for HAL, which, I must admit, was not totally objective on my part. Having an experience working closely in a govt research facility, I have a (I will use a mild term) dislike for working of govt facilities. I have seen how the hard work of a dedicated researcher is wasted by the incompetence of staff not directly involved in research, paperwork etc.

This is the only reason that I liked this otherwise 'not so good' article.