Aircraft carrier Liaoning vs Vikramaditya

[Anonymous_CryptoSpy]

It's better if China's growth not affect to others.
Despite of not so good long history, recently the relationship between China and Vietnam are friendship for most of the time, during WW2, during Indochina conflict, and officially right now.

We appreciate the friendship growth of China.

About equipments and training, could you point out when the last real combat China army, air force join ? in Korean war for army ???

For Vietnam army and air force, they face to face to the biggest until now air force and have many winning before the enemy equipped even much better than China with most advance ACCs in comparing to even Russia. FYI, US navy used at least 2 ACC at the same time against very limited ability Vietnam navy and air force.


Vietnamese pilots have rich experience in real combat with US pilots well-equipped and they turn to ACE by shot down from 5-9 US aircrafts each pilot.
FYI, North Korean pilots cannot compete the performance of Vietnamese pilots, even Russian pilots can't.
At the war time, Vietnam has support from China for anti-aircraft operated by Chinese personnel, but to be frank, it's low performance and many losses for equipment and personnel, can't last for long in a war like Vietnam war.

At this time, Vietnam has very friendship relation with India as I know.
Better if China could know that friendship with most of neighbors is better than to be the enemy of everyone.

I reminded that in every war, Vietnam consider the success of their defence is winning.
so the target is difference from China's target. China consider the more occupation is the win.
So you all know that should not attack Vietnam and occupy our land and sea, we make no damage to anyone unless we are under attacked.

well said

 

[Beast]

This is nothing new, IN Kashtan-M CIWS guns have ROF of 10000 RPM,while goalkeeper has low 4200.
KP is not as great as u think kashtan has KP of .99.Does that mean u could defend any ship with a few kashtans?Lol NO.
KASHTAN-M is still superior system as it uses combination of gun and point defence missile system which is more effective than just gun.

PLAN aren't even impressed with Kashtan system. They are fitted on the last 2 sov destroyer delivered to PLAN and after that PLAN never going to order that system again.

A domestic version for land CWIS named LD-2000 same concept as Kashtan is made.

But the navy do not buy that idea and even the LD-2000 enter very limited service for PLA.

Clearly in the photo , both RAM and CWIS is present onboard CV-16 Liaoning. But currently only Type1130 CWIS is the only few rare system able to handle incoming Mach 4 missile.

 

[AUSTERLITZ]

PLAN aren't even impressed with Kashtan system. They are fitted on the last 2 sov destroyer delivered to PLAN and after that PLAN never going to order that system again.

A domestic version for land CWIS named LD-2000 same concept as Kashtan is made.

But the navy do not buy that idea and even the LD-2000 enter very limited service for PLA.

Clearly in the photo , both RAM and CWIS is present onboard CV-16 Liaoning. But currently only Type1130 CWIS is the only few rare system able to handle incoming Mach 4 missile.

PLAN may want to use indigeneous system,but kashtan-m has been a succesful weapons system for quite a while now.
IN prefers the combination of barak-1/AK-630 upgraded guns[used in kashtan as well] as CIWS.

 

[Beast]

PLAN may want to use indigeneous system,but kashtan-m has been a succesful weapons system for quite a while now.
IN prefers the combination of barak-1/AK-630 upgraded guns[used in kashtan as well] as CIWS.

It's not about indigeneous or not. The best system will win PLAN favour. Obvious, our experience with Kashtan is not a very good one. If its good. You will see it fitted onboard many of our ship but its not happening. Russian has no problem selling this system to us.

 

[AUSTERLITZ]

It's not about indigeneous or not. The best system will win PLAN favour. Obvious, our experience with Kashtan is not a very good one. If its good. You will see it fitted onboard many of our ship but its not happening. Russian has no problem selling this system to us.

Perhaps this is because the missile of the kashtan CIWS has problems with engagement envelope.In tests with barak-1.This was why kashtan was fitted only on russian built talwars,all others were retrofitted with ak-630 guns/barak.Delhi class/rajput clas,kolkata class,brahmaputra class/shivalik class all have barak-1 and ak-630.
'' The visiting IN/DRDO delegation thereafter discovered that the Kashtan-M’s 9M311 missile was unable to engage sea-skimming targets at a distance below 1.5km (as opposed to the Barak-1’s 500 metres) and its warhead weight was only 9kg, as opposed to the Barak-1’s 22kg. Vice Admiral Vishnu Bhagwat, the then Deputy Chief of Naval Staff, later confirmed the Barak-1’s superiority in an evaluation report prepared for Navy HQ.''

 

[Anony]

From chief designer that admit, it has tested against Mach 4 drone. You Indian properly can't accept Chinese advancement due to your impotent.

Then may I know what Indian CWIS can made besides using money to buy? None.

Do you have link for your tall claims And moreover what drone PLA/N/AF has which can fly at Mach 4.

 

[Beast]

Do you have link for your tall claims And moreover what drone PLA/N/AF has which can fly at Mach 4.

CM-400AKG

 

[kurup]

This is good news as far as we are concerned .

It shows that even a powerfull CIWS is capable of shooting down CM-400AKG

 

[BoQ77]

Delusion is with you. Type1130 is not even copy of goalkeeper. It's performance has even surpassed it. 11000rounds per minute. From chief designer that admit, it has tested against Mach 4 drone. You Indian properly can't accept Chinese advancement due to your impotent.

Then may I know what Indian CWIS can made besides using money to buy? None.

Hey beast, could you advise me, whether a 1130 could shot down 2 incoming missiles at once or not?
the performance rate of it shown from an unknown, so let another trust test proves it.

Yeah, I agree with Austerliz about Kashtan-M system ... our Gepards armed with Palma SU system

SOSNA-R
Air defense System /

For protection of smaller missile boats and corvettes against air attacks, Russia is offering the new Palma turret, which incorporates the same close-in air defense system used with the Tunguska (SA-19 Grison). Palma uses eight SOSNA-R missiles and two 30mm six-barrel AO-18KD gatling guns, which have a cyclic rate of fire of 10,000 rounds per minute. Each gun is provided with 1,500 ready-use rounds. Palma provides fully automatic close-in protection for naval ships and, unlike most Russian systems, uses combined input from radar, laser and IR systems, reportedly making it immune to electronic countermeasures.

The SOSNA-R 9M337 (SA-24) hyper-velocity beam rider missile is a two-stage missile designed for interception of fired wing aircraft and helicopters, as well as guided weapons and cruise missiles. This missile type is also capable of engaging light armored vehicles. The missile uses radar-guidance for boost phase, transitioning to laser beam guidance for mid-course corrections and the terminal phase. The 28 kg missile can sustain maximum dynamic loads of 40Gs, cruises at a speed of 570 m/sec and has a top speed of 920 m/sec. The missile is equipped with a fragmentation charge activated at close proximity flyby, or a rod penetrator, which is used when a direct hit can be achieved. The missile uses a selective proximity/impact fuse with continuous circular pattern scan and adaptive burst rate in order to support both kill mechanisms. SOSNA-R missiles are designed to engage targets at ranges of 1 – 10 km and altitudes of 6 – 15,000 feet.

 

[BoQ77]

CM-400AKG

from strategypage
January 29, 2013: Last November China announced that it had its first export customer (Pakistan) for its new CM-400AKG supersonic cruise missile. This is the export version of the YJ-12, which was supposed to have entered service a decade ago but has not actually been seen until recently. The YJ-12 was known to be in development in the late 1990s. It entered service in small numbers a decade ago and then disappeared. The YJ-12 was to be used on the navy land-based JH-7 bombers. This missile is also meant for use on ships and mobile ground launchers.

With a max range of 250 kilometers and a guidance system that includes GPS, onboard radar, and an image recognition system that can identify a specific target, the YJ-12/CM-400AKG uses its high speed to evade defenses on ships. In all these respects the CM-400AKG is very similar to the Indo-Russian BrahMos. One major difference between the two missiles is that the CM-400AKG still appears to be in development and there is no evidence of tests. This “sale” may be a ploy by the Chinese manufacturer to determine if it will be worth the huge expense to actually make this missile work. The YJ-12 itself appears to have finally entered service. At least there are now photos of several YJ-12s in what appears to be an air base. In addition there are the sales efforts for the export version and the announcement that Pakistan was the first customer. Meanwhile, China relies on a number of slower anti-ship missiles.

 

[BoQ77]

This is good news as far as we are concerned .

It shows that even a powerfull CIWS is capable of shooting down CM-400AKG

That means YJ-12 ( Cm-400AKG ) low performance and easy to be shot down.
Even speed of YJ-12 unsures to be Mach 3

As I know Yakhont / Brahmos is very smart missiles

Maybe the reason to claim 1130 can shoot missile Mach 4? as highlighted, poor missile ?

Limitations of gun systems

Short range: The maximum effective range of 20-mm gun systems is about 4500 m; systems with lighter projectiles have even shorter range. The expected real-world kill-distance of an incoming anti-ship missile is about 500 m or less, [3] still close enough to possibly cause damage to the ship's sensor or communication arrays, or to wound or even kill exposed personnel. This also makes the timeframe for interception relatively short; for supersonic missiles moving at 1500 m/s it is approximately one-third of a second.
Limited kill probability: even if the missile is hit and damaged, this may not be enough to destroy it entirely or to alter its course enough to prevent the missile, or fragments from it, from hitting its intended target, particularly as the interception distance is short. This is especially true if the gun fires kinetic-energy-only projectiles.
Guns can only fire at one target at a time; switching targets may take up to one second to re-train the gun.
A gun must predict the target's course and aim at the predicted position. Modern anti-ship missiles make intentional erratic moves before impact, reducing the probability of being hit by unguided projectiles.

 

[satishkumarcsc]

This is good news as far as we are concerned .

It shows that even a powerfull CIWS is capable of shooting down CM-400AKG

Yes because the flight behaviour of the CM 400AKG is going to be like the KH 15 Raduga(Basically 1960s tech) and the CIWS can shoot it down 90% of the time.

 

[BoQ77]

Yes because the flight behaviour of the CM 400AKG is going to be like the KH 15 Raduga(Basically 1960s tech) and the CIWS can shoot it down 90% of the time.

No, as I know CM400AKG is big size KH-31 missile ( Mach 2.7-3.5), but China failed to copy it because of low tech in manufacturing engine.
Currently China still import KH-31 from Russia because their copy as YJ91 and yJ93 are low performance

 

[satishkumarcsc]

No, as I know CM400AKG is big size KH-31 missile ( Mach 2.7-3.5), but China failed to copy it because of low tech in manufacturing engine.
Currently China still import KH-31 from Russia because their copy as YJ91 and yJ93 are low performance

CM 400 AKG is based on the principle of the KH 15 but with a lesser warhead. the X-31 is a Ramjet propelled missile.

 

[BoQ77]

CM 400 AKG is based on the principle of the KH 15 but with a lesser warhead. the X-31 is a Ramjet propelled missile.

Yeah I am wrong, because keep thinking CM 400 AKG same as YJ-12 ( but engine different )
If China supply Pakistan CM-400 AKG to threaten India aircraft carrier, then India could provide Vietnam Brahmos ( air launch ) missile for threaten Chinese Liaoning ...

Brahmos ( upgraded ) could fit many to Vietnam :
1. Air : Su30MK2
2. Submarine : 636
3. Floating warship
4. Ground : Vietnam has Bastion systems with Yakhont missile already