Air Force Question Thread

[shehbazi2001]

Murad,

You are correct. Hypoxia maybe compared to carbonmonoxide poisioning. When you go to sleep, there is no coming out of it.

I think PAF should be very clear on not growing facial hair---regardless air or ground crew---there is no place for a beard in the armed forces.

I completey disagree with this idea. This shall deeply hurt or even force the concerned personnel to quit PAF.

PAF should only concentrate on its professional matters of technical progress, flying skill and build-up.

Stalin had to face immense destruction and defeat in the start of Operation Barbarossa due to purges he had done on personal like and dislike basis.

If we are muslims, we should never pass an order which contradicts Allah and his prophet's teachings. I personally know very talented and precious men who quit PAF academy due to beard issues even in aeronautical engineering.

PAF may get punished by God for this.....and this is not a joke......The No.14 squadron pilots who fired at bangalis faced an ultimate insult a human being can possibly suffer......leave alone a pilot.....surrender and at the top of this, the Sabres were taken in flying form by Indians......only some sabres were fired at by machine guns by our crew.

PAF should concentrate on learning about Electronic warfare. No expert has answered till now on my post of jammer pods. What is this level?

It is a pilot's headache to choose a correct helmet for himself. He shall surely trim his beard if he faces difficulty in wearing it or with oxygen mask.

what punishment we may get for actions like mentioned above ....and what the world powers are thinking about Pakistan.....what planning has already being done........shall tell u somewhat in my next posts.

 

[blain2]

PAF should concentrate on learning about Electronic warfare. No expert has answered till now on my post of jammer pods. What is this level?

What jamming pods are you referring to? The ones in use by the PAF are ALQ-131s (the same stuff as in use by the NATO air forces flying F-16s). PAF has ordered additional ALQ-131/ALQ-184 pods for existing F-16s (blk 15s) as well as 18 ALQ-178s for the blk 52s.

The Mirages and F-7s are equipped with Self Protection capability with RWR/Chaff/Flares. Fairly rudimentary but effective for self-protection.

For actual electronic warfare and jamming, I believe F-16s currently are the only ones with this capability with the above mentioned ALQ-131 pods.

 

[shehbazi2001]

Blain, I referred to my thread in Militray Aviation head with title "Main Funtions of a Jammer Pod".

I dont want the equipment details of PAF. Its a knowledge related question, on the use of a jammer pod.

I may also send a post on the wrong decisions made by PAF for its selection of high-altitude HQ-2B SAMs in the past.

I did not want to post it, but that beard issue is forcing me to fully show the importance of concentrating on professional matters and not on the enmity with islam.

 

[x_man]

I completey disagree with this idea. This shall deeply hurt or even force the concerned personnel to quit PAF.

PAF should only concentrate on its professional matters of technical progress, flying skill and build-up.

Stalin had to face immense destruction and defeat in the start of Operation Barbarossa due to purges he had done on personal like and dislike basis.

If we are muslims, we should never pass an order which contradicts Allah and his prophet's teachings. I personally know very talented and precious men who quit PAF academy due to beard issues even in aeronautical engineering.

PAF may get punished by God for this........

Punishment for What ? For telling people to follow rules .....??

I think you are unnecessarily boiling your blood over an issue which is not even an issue…PAF personal had been keeping beards and will continue to do so….No one is stopping anyone from beard, the only thing that Airforce is asking them, is to keep the beard according to the existing rules...…

Airforce has rules/regulations for everything and has a complete set of instructions on the DRESS CODE .This manual also contains instructions’ about the length / dimensions of beard , shape/ size of moustaches , haircut, sideburns etc etc…all serving members have to abide by the dress code prescribed in the Manual…

If I want to grow beard today, I will have to take permission from AHQ and in my application, I will confirm that my beard will be according to the Dress code Manual. I haven’t come across a single soul, who applied for keeping the beard and his application was turned down….so if anyone is telling you that he wasn’t given permission or dispelled from Airforce because of beard, he is just bluffing….

What was happening over the years that people started to have longer beards than they were allowed….and when finally Airforce asked them to shorten their beards according to dress regulations, many people back lashed. They assumed that they are being asked something which is contrary to Islam and plainly refused to shorten their beards….Now the problem starts here……things came in media…people started to assume that PAF has become some evil anti-beard cult….or its asking people to completely shave off the beards……to gain the sympathies of masses, the defaulters portray a total wrong picture to the outside world and the things became a big mess….. everyone started to blame the force and finally the Airforce had to come back tough on the defaulters…..

Meray bhai, the only thing PAF asked them was to keep the beard according to rules….no one was asked to shave it off completely…...I hope I am able to remove some of your doubts about the issue...

 

[Keysersoze]

I completey disagree with this idea. This shall deeply hurt or even force the concerned personnel to quit PAF.

PAF should only concentrate on its professional matters of technical progress, flying skill and build-up.

Stalin had to face immense destruction and defeat in the start of Operation Barbarossa due to purges he had done on personal like and dislike basis.

If we are muslims, we should never pass an order which contradicts Allah and his prophet's teachings. I personally know very talented and precious men who quit PAF academy due to beard issues even in aeronautical engineering.

PAF may get punished by God for this.....and this is not a joke......The No.14 squadron pilots who fired at bangalis faced an ultimate insult a human being can possibly suffer......leave alone a pilot.....surrender and at the top of this, the Sabres were taken in flying form by Indians......only some sabres were fired at by machine guns by our crew.

PAF should concentrate on learning about Electronic warfare. No expert has answered till now on my post of jammer pods. What is this level?

It is a pilot's headache to choose a correct helmet for himself. He shall surely trim his beard if he faces difficulty in wearing it or with oxygen mask.

what punishment we may get for actions like mentioned above ....and what the world powers are thinking about Pakistan.....what planning has already being done........shall tell u somewhat in my next posts.

X-man has been polite about this....I am going to be a bit more rude. If you are seriously saying that GOD makes people lose wars because of their lack of beards then I would say that you need serious psychiatric help.

The simple fact as I have stated is that if God punishes people without beards, I would love to know why he has not punished the British army which has not allowed beards for hundreds of years (for the sake of field hygiene) and has not lost a war in that time.

If a pilot chooses to grow a long beard that causes him to crash a plane then he is committing suicide. Is that allowed? Maybe then people with beards should show God loves them by not using oxygen at all?

Why use Jammer pods? why not use their beards to stop incoming missiles?

It makes my blood boil hearing people spout such rubbish!
GOD HELPS THOSE WHO HELP THEMSELVES.

 

[fatman17]

What jamming pods are you referring to? The ones in use by the PAF are ALQ-131s (the same stuff as in use by the NATO air forces flying F-16s). PAF has ordered additional ALQ-131/ALQ-184 pods for existing F-16s (blk 15s) as well as 18 ALQ-178s for the blk 52s.

The Mirages and F-7s are equipped with Self Protection capability with RWR/Chaff/Flares. Fairly rudimentary but effective for self-protection.

For actual electronic warfare and jamming, I believe F-16s currently are the only ones with this capability with the above mentioned ALQ-131 pods.

Blain2-what about the Falcon-20s with the PAF.arn't they also used for ECM and jamming.?

 

[niaz]

I completey disagree with this idea. This shall deeply hurt or even force the concerned personnel to quit PAF.

PAF should only concentrate on its professional matters of technical progress, flying skill and build-up.

Stalin had to face immense destruction and defeat in the start of Operation Barbarossa due to purges he had done on personal like and dislike basis.

If we are muslims, we should never pass an order which contradicts Allah and his prophet's teachings. I personally know very talented and precious men who quit PAF academy due to beard issues even in aeronautical engineering.

PAF may get punished by God for this.....and this is not a joke......The No.14 squadron pilots who fired at bangalis faced an ultimate insult a human being can possibly suffer......leave alone a pilot.....surrender and at the top of this, the Sabres were taken in flying form by Indians......only some sabres were fired at by machine guns by our crew.

PAF should concentrate on learning about Electronic warfare. No expert has answered till now on my post of jammer pods. What is this level?

It is a pilot's headache to choose a correct helmet for himself. He shall surely trim his beard if he faces difficulty in wearing it or with oxygen mask.

what punishment we may get for actions like mentioned above ....and what the world powers are thinking about Pakistan.....what planning has already being done........shall tell u somewhat in my next posts.

Unlike in Sikhism, where there is a clear order to keep long hair, there is no mention in the holy Quran that keeping a beard is a must. No country is more orthodox than Saudi Arabia. Just go there and see how many people are clean shaven. In Kuwait I have even offered prayers behind an Imam who had very slight beard. Keeping the fist size beard is a "SUNNAT" not a "FARZ". If you can follow the sunnat it is indeed very good and
commendable. But not a must.

Even in the time of the holy Prophet ( PBUH); sehabas had different lenght beards. For example it is a fact that Hazrat Ali ( RA) had very slight beard, very common in the Arabs these days. On the other hand Hazrat Osman( RA) had a long beard. How can you than say that it is the order of Allah and PAF will be punished??? It is the misinterpretation of the religion in the extreme.

Besides, if life is at the stake, even "Haram" food is allowed. If you care to read Islamic history closely, once during the time of a famine in Medina, Hazrat Omer ( RA) repealed the ban on many haram things so that people dont die of hunger.

It is this idiotic interpretation of a ISLAM by semi literate mullah's that Islam gets a bad name. Life is the most precious gift of Allah and one must do all one can to safeguard it.

 

[shehbazi2001]

Mr Keyser...the promise of reward and warning of punishment is only for muslims........dont drag british in this issue.....u were right in saying that ur post is going to be rude, yes it was really rude.

Even with that situation, the BRITISH had an insulting and memorable defeat at the hands of TRIBAL PATHANS. The GREAT BRITISH EMPIRE failed to get their hands on the dead body of a SINGLE pathan. They saw the blood track going into mountians, but a british mother had not given birth to a son who could follow those blood tracks....

People like you cant even understand it. Once an afghan child was drinking the dirty water of a pond, and a british saw him...he started count down that child would be dead within minutes.....that child would become a warrior with a superior immunity system to the normal human beings.....

in this regard,you should watch the "The light Horsemen". This film is set in the First World War theatre of Palestin and is about the role of an Australlian cavalry unit that participated in war against Turks alongwith Allies.

u shall find Australlian army men enjoying the off-duty time in NUDE at the seaside of Gaza Strip. That unit then defeated the turkish positions. Now should we do the same thing for being victorious?

The reason of defeat was the lack of reinforcements because Anwar Pasha had opened yet another front on the Russian side. Logic must never be forgotten but dont enforce something which may be sacred for someone.

Now the islamic details of whether sunnah is must or not and Hazrat Ali had a short beard.....my dear many arabs naturally dont have dense hair....it is not that they trimmed it.....its not only sunnah of our Prophet (PBUH), every prophet did it......

however presenting these details does not seem a good idea because there exist difference of opinion and yet another thing is the THRESH HOLD level of every person. Everyone has set separate limits for himself as acceptable and not acceptable.

Therefore its better not to touch these issues and not to pass orders in these issues.We can be muslims but we are not momins. Untill u follow islam 100%, u cant be a complete muslim or momin and promises of heavenly support are with momins.

As for the armed forces, they should focus on their professional excellence, especially the technical progress.

 

[blain2]

Blain2-what about the Falcon-20s with the PAF.arn't they also used for ECM and jamming.?

Yes you are right DA-20 as well. I was specifically referring to combat aircraft.
However I believe the DA-20 has additional ELINT capabilities as well where it can actually detect and gather various threat signatures (builds out the signature library from the detected radar frequencies). F-16s would require DRFM to do the same. In the absence of DRFM, the F-16 would use threat libraries from other platforms such as the DA-20 and inshallah Erieye in the future.

 

[x_man]

Yes you are right DA-20 as well. I was specifically referring to combat aircraft.
However I believe the DA-20 has additional ELINT capabilities as well where it can actually detect and gather various threat signatures (builds out the signature library from the detected radar frequencies). F-16s would require DRFM to do the same. In the absence of DRFM, the F-16 would use threat libraries from other platforms such as the DA-20 and inshallah Erieye in the future.

Very Well said...

DA-20 has both capabilities, i.e. COMINT and ELINT....It can also carry out effective ECM .

It provides an excellent value for the money as far as the training of pilots/controllers in ECM environments is concerned.

PAF is working and there is lot of awareness towards the field of Electronic warfare....I hope Erieye will prove its worth and will take care of many shortcoming that DA-20 had and will prove a very effective force multiplier.

 

[shehbazi2001]

what about the establishement of an Electronic Warfare Range like POLYGON in Europe on the border of France and Germany I think.

There they do all the experiments related to EW.

 

[x_man]

Electronic Warfare Test and Training Range (EWTTR) has been procured from Turkey...A lot needs to be done in terms of establishing data links especially and integration of various components of range with each other, its full potential is yet to be explored in many ways...PAF has also tailored made it according to her own requirements/needs and its great to have it......

 

[shehbazi2001]

I had said in one of my previous mails to mention some of the planning that the world powers seem to have done

against Pakistan. Unfortunately, we have access only to media and bringing the real inside-stories is the jobs of

professionals of the agencies, who are busy in politics.....

Journal Name : Science et Vie, Special Issue, Aviation 2007
Title of article : "Rafale at the heart of Inter-force manouvers"
Author: Jean-Patrick Gaviard, Consultant at Centre for Strategic Intelligence Studies

Page-67,

"An external operation in 2025. The french army is engaged in Balochistan for bringing peace to the very troubled region. Army finds itself confronted with the (problem) of separation of a major city of the country (Pakistan), that has fallen into the hands of terrorists. The reconquest into federation is decided. The air superiority task is given to French Air Force....."

That gives a glimpse of the planning and in this context, we can understand the situation in Pakistan. Govt of Pakistan should stop all its military operation in NWFP and Balochistan, so that no one can enter Pakistan on the pretext of bringing peace to the region.

To deprive Pakistan of its nuclear arsenal, very strange schemes may be in preparation and we need to be careful.

 

[blain2]

Electronic Warfare Test and Training Range (EWTTR) has been procured from Turkey...A lot needs to be done in terms of establishing data links especially and integration of various components of range with each other, its full potential is yet to be explored in many ways...PAF has also tailored made it according to her own requirements/needs and its great to have it......

I was just looking at this yesterday. Have had it bookmarked for quite a while. I think PAF purchased this system a year or two ago.
Electronic Warfare Test and Training Range (EWTTR)

 

[shehbazi2001]

When I read in PAF histroy book about 1962 grand firing demonstration at Jamrud during my college time, I decided to visit the range with two of my friends.

As we reached there, we introduced ourselves as students of Islmia College Peshawar and told that we want to see the live firing. The airmen informed us that a formation of F-7s is coming within minutes for practice strafing on ground targets. The targets were in front of us.

The airmen gave each of us a cup of tea. We started taking sips of tea and in the meanwhile the F-7s started to roar in the skies above. Before this we had never seen or heard live firing of fighters. An F-7 came in a dive and fired its guns. We were standing close and the sounds were like little thunders, we could hardly hold our cups of tea.

Then I had a chat with the range officer, perhaps a Fl Lt and after some time when I saw that officer in PTV drama "Shahpar", the memories came to my mind again.

However then I heard that Jamrud range has been put out of use. I dont know that the squadrons of peshawar and kamra use which range for practice now.