Air Chief Marshal Raha to visit Sweden - LCA MK2 aka Gripen IN

[-xXx-]

That is WHAT i was asking. That with MK1 reported to be on par with 4/4+ gen planes, and being the test bed for future technologies for Mk2 (meaning that those are better then the ones on MK1) why the need for "inducting these cutting edge technologies".

So by your logic all 4th gen fighters are same in capabilities? A JF17 can not be made better by F-16 tech, right?

I am now confused if you are unaware or mocking.

Anyway, its useless, i understand that there are no logical answers here, everyone is being driven by patriotism and will jump in to defend every single stupid move that is actually either a lie or a mistake.

Why not you clear your stand if involving Saab is stupid move or a mistake?

Or more probably why not openly say claims on Tejas are lie.

PS: I dont trade in words.

 

[sathya]

Manufacturing technology is what dadachee is talking about..
Not the Gripen.

Most probably for private sectors.

 

[Hellfire]

hmmm so this is more of a political move.

I do agree, it is Indian political posturing. More likely F-18 deal may still materialize ... purely speculative right now as F-414 is what India needs for LCA too and going for gripen ng makes no sense.

LCAs will be inducted over the next decade in significant numbers. But there is also an immediate need to induct aircrafts upto 5 squadrons worth ... so lets see

 

[randomradio]

hmmm so this is more of a political move. But would this effectively kill the LCA project? I mean if you go for a JV from the start then i understand that you can have your inputs and get a lot to learn and gain. But if you go for a mature aircraft that is already being used by different air forces, calling it a JV is merely a cover up. It is more of a procurement if you ask me. Anyway, thanks for your sensible reply.

It won't kill the LCA program. IAF has committed to 120 jets and the navy wants 45 jets, which is no different from the JF-17 numbers. Apart from that there is the possibility of exports because a lot of countries now want to have strategic relations with India, countries like Vietnam, Philippines etc.

Basically the LCA program will continue as is, even if the Mk2 is not inducted by the IAF. And the only thing that can kill LCA is if the project commits suicide. No outside force can kill it, only technical problems can. The funding for the entire program has already been sanctioned, so it can't be stopped by anybody.

And nobody is talking about a JV with Sweden. At best SAAB will be a development partner if Gripen is chosen for MII. And note that what we want from these MRCA countries is primarily manufacturing technologies. We plan on bringing up at least two private sector industries in India that can manufacture aircraft. And having a foreign company holding their hands is a big advantage to have.

The first one is OK. It basically means that we recognise that we cannot produce the Tejas in the quantities needed. We will use the Tejas, whatever we can do, as a MiG21 replacement, and use the Gripen somewhere between that and the MMRCA role.

The Gripens will directly replace the Mig-21 and 27s along with LCA, if purchased.

That would mean that we have four steps, two too many, IMHO, Tejas, Gripen, Rafale and Su 30 MKI.

Tejas, Gripen, Rafale, MKI and Super Hornet. We are guaranteed to buy at least one American fighter.

We have a requirement to buy 550 aircraft by 2027 between the IAF and IN. It is not possible for India to reach that number by manufacturing only Rafale and LCA. At least 3 production lines are necessary.

We are either going to purchase 6 squadrons of SH by sacrificing a large number of Rafale or purchase the F-16 instead of Gripen and LCA. And my money is on the SH.

There's another indigenous aircraft called the LSA in the planning stages. It is a single engine stealth aircraft. If this aircraft is chosen, then we won't need any other aircraft except for a few squadrons of Rafale.

It puts the entire indigenous development drive under threat. It is so, so easy to succumb to foreign technology, whether disguised as a joint venture or blatant, and so difficult to keep moving along an indigenous path.

The imports don't affect the indigenous programs. In fact we plan on going ahead with AMCA, FGFA, IUSAV and all other UAV projects independently. Even LCA is not threatened by the imports now.

 

[Arsalan]

So by your logic all 4th gen fighters are same in capabilities? A JF17 can not be made better by F-16 tech, right?

WHICH logic?
In fact, forget that. If you serious to build a constructive debate here, do bother to answer the first question, one i mentioned in previous post and we can then move from there. I am not in a habit of jumping from one point to another when left clueless. Address that and we can move forward from there or else enjoy your skipping game sir.

I have got my answers anyway, thanks to your fellow country man and my fellow member here on this forum. I do not need to bang my head against the wall anymore.
https://defence.pk/threads/air-chie...-mk2-aka-gripen-in.433861/page-3#post-8362096

I do agree, it is Indian political posturing. More likely F-18 deal may still materialize ... purely speculative right now as F-414 is what India needs for LCA too and going for gripen ng makes no sense.

LCAs will be inducted over the next decade in significant numbers. But there is also an immediate need to induct aircrafts upto 5 squadrons worth ... so lets see

Understood. Thanks for a sane reply.

 

[sathya]

It won't kill the LCA program. IAF has committed to 120 jets and the navy wants 45 jets, which is no different from the JF-17 numbers. Apart from that there is the possibility of exports because a lot of countries now want to have strategic relations with India, countries like Vietnam, Philippines etc.

Basically the LCA program will continue as is, even if the Mk2 is not inducted by the IAF. And the only thing that can kill LCA is if the project commits suicide. No outside force can kill it, only technical problems can. The funding for the entire program has already been sanctioned, so it can't be stopped by anybody.

And nobody is talking about a JV with Sweden. At best SAAB will be a development partner if Gripen is chosen for MII. And note that what we want from these MRCA countries is primarily manufacturing technologies. We plan on bringing up at least two private sector industries in India that can manufacture aircraft. And having a foreign company holding their hands is a big advantage to have.



The Gripens will directly replace the Mig-21 and 27s along with LCA, if purchased.



Tejas, Gripen, Rafale, MKI and Super Hornet. We are guaranteed to buy at least one American fighter.

We have a requirement to buy 550 aircraft by 2027 between the IAF and IN. It is not possible for India to reach that number by manufacturing only Rafale and LCA. At least 3 production lines are necessary.

We are either going to purchase 6 squadrons of SH by sacrificing a large number of Rafale or purchase the F-16 instead of Gripen and LCA. And my money is on the SH.

There's another indigenous aircraft called the LSA in the planning stages. It is a single engine stealth aircraft. If this aircraft is chosen, then we won't need any other aircraft except for a few squadrons of Rafale.



The imports don't affect the indigenous programs. In fact we plan on going ahead with AMCA, FGFA, IUSAV and all other UAV projects independently. Even LCA is not threatened by the imports now.

I believe it's F16, if USA succeeds in getting India in different groups
F18 Boeing wants make on its own, no private sector can benefit.

If USA didn't succeed , no F16

LCA , Rafale, FGFA will do..

 

[randomradio]

I believe it's F16, if USA succeeds in getting India in different groups
F18 Boeing wants make on its own, no private sector can benefit.

If USA didn't succeed , no F16

LCA , Rafale, FGFA will do..

I don't think Boeing's plan will succeed. They will be forced to choose a JV partner.

 

[Joe Shearer]

I should have tagged you in the very first post here, It would have saved me lot of time and i could do better without all this frustration of pointless arguments in my first roza.
Was hoping someone could just step up and speak up about the realities but i understand this is quite difficult in our countries!!

Thanks for the detailed post sir.

You're welcome. It's another light, easy-to-fly bird that pilots love to fly. The Swedes really pulled off a winner. Other competition - the Rafale, the Eurofighter, the current JSF, stuff like that, are complex albeit worthy pieces of machinery.

Ramzan Kareem.

 

[dadeechi]

India would be buying & assembling 1000+ US engines for LCA MK1/1A, MK2 & F16s under DTTI.

 

[OrionHunter]

This news confused me a lot ...Don know what is cooking. ... please someone help me to understand.

1. One side IAF says Gripen is not required. ...And IAF chief visiting Sweden for 5 days...In that visit Gripen production facility visit is largely highlighted.

2. In the same time India is making Tejas MK1-p and MK2 ... Both in progress....

If we are making Tejas MK2 then where is requirement for Gripen...Vice Versa.

Need help to understand those points.

Tejas Mk 2 will also include Gripen NG technology and systems which will be made in India under collaboration with SAAB.

 

[Super Falcon]

And yet it is indigenous

 

[Hellfire]

And yet it is indigenous

Yup ...!!! Nothing in this world is 100% indigenous ... not even citizens nowadays .. so can we not try and derail thread?

 

[Abingdonboy]

Air Chief Marshal Raha to visit Sweden

Air Chief Marshal Arup Raha will embark on a five-day visit to Sweden, starting tomorrow, to take the existing defence cooperation between the armed forces of the two countries to the next level.


During his stay at Sweden, from June 7 to 11, the Chief of the Air Staff (CAS) will be calling on the Swedish Defence Minister Peter Hultqvist and is scheduled to hold bilateral discussion with the Supreme Commander of Swedish Armed Forces and the Chiefs of Staff of Army, Navy and Air Force.

The challenges faced by the Defence Forces of both the countries in the current world scenario, is expected to be discussed during these meetings.


The CAS will also be visiting a flying base of the Swedish Air Force and the production facilities of SAAB, Swedish aerospace and defence company, at Linkoping where Gripen aircraft are manufactured.

The visit assumes greater significance as it is taking place after the Swedish PM Stefan Lofvens February 2016 visit to India to attend the Def Expo-2016 held at Goa.

The Prime Ministers of both India and Sweden had also identified defence as one of the key areas of cooperation between the two countries during the visit

http://www.business-standard.com/ar...shal-raha-to-visit-sweden-116060601181_1.html

Indian Air Force Chief to Visit SAAB Production Facility in Sweden


Amid speculations that a second foreign company would be roped in to manufacture fighter aircraft under the Make in India project, India’s air force chief is preparing to visit production facilities of Swedish manufacturer SAAB.


According to India's Ministry of Defense, Air Chief Marshal Arup Raha, Chief of the Air Staff, will be visiting a flying base of the Swedish Air Force and the production facilities of SAAB at Linkoping where Gripen aircraft are manufactured. SAAB has offered to develop, manufacture and undertake the final assembly of its Gripen fighter jet in India with actual Transfer of Technology under the Make in India project.


Air Chief Marshal Arup Raha is on an official visit to Sweden from June 7. During his stay in Sweden he will be calling on the Swedish Defense Minister Peter Hultqvist and is scheduled to hold bilateral discussions with the Supreme Commander of Swedish Armed Forces and the Chiefs of Staff of the Army, Navy and Air Force.

The visit carries great significance as it is taking place after Swedish PM Stefan Lofven’s visit to India earlier this year in February to attend the Defense Expo-2016 held in Goa in southern India. Both India and Sweden identified defense as one of the key areas of cooperation during the visit.

Last month, in an interview to All India Radio, India's defense minister Manohar Parrikar said, “India will select a good fighter by the end of this fiscal year to be made domestically. It is not yet decided which aircraft it would be. It may be F18, Rafale, Eurofighter or Gripen. The decision in this regard will be taken in this fiscal year.”

Recently, SAAB unveiled the Gripen E advanced fighter aircraft and offered to manufacture it in India. However, apart from SAAB, other global giants like Lockheed Martin and Boeing are also keen on catering to the requirements of the Indian Air Force. Boeing and Lockheed Martin have proposed to manufacture the F/A-18 and F-16 respectively under the Make in India mission.

However, only last month, Defense Minister Parrikar said in Parliament, "The experience of flying against F-16 is what we require as we are not going to induct the F-16, at least; as of now."


http://sputniknews.com/europe/20160606/1040878791/india-air-force-saab.html

Sweden would be one of the key partners for Tejas mk2.....

This news confused me a lot ...Don know what is cooking. ... please someone help me to understand.

1. One side IAF says Gripen is not required. ...And IAF chief visiting Sweden for 5 days...In that visit Gripen production facility visit is largely highlighted.

2. In the same time India is making Tejas MK1-p and MK2 ... Both in progress....

If we are making Tejas MK2 then where is requirement for Gripen...Vice Versa.

Need help to understand those points.

Don't get your panties in a bunch guys. It's a standard visit and ordinarily the host nation will make the arrangments for where their guest will be taken and what they will be shown. The Swedes are stil aggresively marketing the Gripen for India, so what? The IAF has no interest in it and that is for sure. Let them pitch all they like, the IAF is fully commited to the LCA and Rafale.


You guys are starting to sound like those Pakistani members that think their Naval cheif being given a tour of a T-45 destroyer when on a visit to the UK means they are looking to buy one for themselves!

Why not a JV with HAL to build Tejas - MK2. Dassault for sure is not going to partner with HAL for Rafale.

Why would SAAB want to create a credible competitor to their Gripen-NG? The LCA MK.2 is being lined up to be exactly that so SAAB are the last company in the world that HAL/ADA should be tieing up with for that project, it would be counter productive for both sides.

 

[Joe Shearer]

Don't get your panties in a bunch guys. It's a standard visit and ordinarily the host nation will make the arrangments for where their guest will be taken and what they will be shown. The Swedes are stil aggresively marketing the Gripen for India, so what? The IAF has no interest in it and that is for sure. Let them pitch all they like, the IAF is fully commited to the LCA and Rafale.


You guys are starting to sound like those Pakistani members that think their Naval cheif being given a tour of a T-45 destroyer when on a visit to the UK means they are looking to buy one for themselves!


Why would SAAB want to create a credible competitor to their Gripen-NG? The LCA MK.2 is being lined up to be exactly that so SAAB are the last company in the world that HAL/ADA should be tieing up with for that project, it would be counter productive for both sides.

That's the thing. With MK2, the convergence will increase.

 

[Hellfire]

@Abingdonboy Back from your sojourn away? Nice to see you back!!

Yes, LCA and Rafale it is .. but we will be going for another platform if Dassault does not play ball (and it seems it won't). The front runner seems to be F-18. I do not have any indication of Gripen coming in, and am at odds with @dadeechi over his views on Gripen and F-16s for IAF .... not likely.