Ahmadinejad to visit Pakistan next week/further talks on Gas pipeline

[Kaniska]

Okay let me understand this.

Riyadh is mute on IndoUS nuclear deal that discriminates Pakistan.

Riyadh has refused to gurantee energy security to Pakistan in the event of an Indian invasion.

Riyadh is not forthcoming, with ANY cheaper and more viable alternative to IPP.

What does Riyadh want, makes zero sense. instead of echoing Washington's line through Riyadh to FORCE Pakistan to back off from IPP.

We DONT want, TAPI for political and, security reasons just yet. It would have been, better if Riyadh had realized our energy starved economy needs IPP.

IPP will be operational, even with all regional and international power politics because of the final destinaton on IPP which is called China.

@Aeronaut : I like your post...But sometimes you start your post with rational reasoning but then you start putting the logic based on the emotions rather than the facts.

1- GCC nations never betrayed Pakistan nor will also betray pakistan in future. I feel Pakistan SA/GCC relationship is independent of India SA relationship. So donot unnecessary club yourself by fighting with your friends when it is not needed at at all.

2- SA influencing about backing off the IP pipe deal has to deal with SA Iran rivalry that has been played in Pakistan since long time in Pakistan....Forget even your country...even in pdf i can see that your countrymen even don't have complete knowledge about the pipleline still then they mix the pipeline deal with respect to sectarian issue....A classic example is that in this same thread one peroson @darksin has incomplete information about the deal still then he is proposing to go for IP pipeline based on incorrect facts.

3-The most important fact...IP can not be extended to China...I know you can not believe it...but you donot try to believe it...But the reason for it is the economic cost of transportation through pipeline is not beneficial. Ultimately the future of IP is India will join later on and it may be extended to BD or other nations who are interested.

4- The most crucial aspect for Pakistan is that you should choose IP pipeline not because certain group of people want shia Iran to be partner of you rather than sunni SA....Rather it is a fact that Pakistan has to leave with Iran as he is your neighour.....Iran and India are your neighour...You may hate India or some section of your nation may dislike Iran but your trade should always preferred with them first...That makes a lot of economical sense to each business deal.

5- Final point, recently i was getting the news that SA is offering comparatively cheaper oil than Iran if India wish to duck Iran oil for switching to SAoil. And of course India may not like to put all the eggs in SA basket as INDIA feel more comfortable with Iran that going with SA, but again India needs to renegotiate with Iran about pricing of oil. Simillarly, Pakistan too can take the offer from SA and find out the cheaper option from both IP and SA offer and whatever is cheap just go for it...Donot mix your political and sect concept while dealing with the trade...There is no reason to mix it...Your economy needs cheap oil you just go for anyone whoever will provide it..

And please donot propagate the your top secret information that in case of a event of war SA will not provide energy security to you...Neither INDIA and Pakistan is going for war not SA will ditch you......If you pay money even your arch enemy India will also export the products that can be traded...So money talks and SA is not an exception..

 

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

Simple transaction

 

[r3alist]

Okay let me understand this.

Riyadh is mute on IndoUS nuclear deal that discriminates Pakistan.

Riyadh has refused to gurantee energy security to Pakistan in the event of an Indian invasion.

Riyadh is not forthcoming, with ANY cheaper and more viable alternative to IPP.

What does Riyadh want, makes zero sense. instead of echoing Washington's line through Riyadh to FORCE Pakistan to back off from IPP.

We DONT want, TAPI for political and, security reasons just yet. It would have been, better if Riyadh had realized our energy starved economy needs IPP.

IPP will be operational, even with all regional and international power politics because of the final destinaton on IPP which is called China.

its such a shame that pakistan cannot even do a simple thing like build a pipe line with its energy rich neighbour to overcome a massive problem.

it just goes to show that there are so many vested interests who pull the strings in pakistan, this time its the zionists and the arabs (same thing maybe?), oligarchy of all forms must be destroyed.

 

[darkinsky]

I didn't talk cheap,I'm saying the truth.you can not afford an underwater pipeline,do you even know what it means?
It's much much more cheaper for you to buy gas from Iran.
You can't transport natural gas with ships,unless you turn it in to LNG,and considering the amount of gas Pakistan needs,it's not beneficial for both sides at any means.



Yes,Iran has completed the pipeline on its side,it's only up to Pakistan to build the pipeline in its territory.

pakistan cant afford the IP line too my dear, pakistan would let arabs built the underwater line and all the costs together will make the gas cheaper w.r.t iranian pipeline

im against the iranian deal because i know iranians will double cross us at some time

 

[KingMamba]

It is as if some Iranian pummeled Darkinsky when he was a child and broke his heart.

 

[Kompromat]

@Aeronaut : I like your post...But sometimes you start your post with rational reasoning but then you start putting the logic based on the emotions rather than the facts.

I, like to speak through my heart.

1- GCC nations never betrayed Pakistan nor will also betray pakistan in future.

Not entirely true, with the exception of Saudi Arabia, almost all other GCC countries are actively supporting terrorist proxies in Balochistan as we speak, so never say never.

I feel Pakistan SA/GCC relationship is independent of India SA relationship. So donot unnecessary club yourself by fighting with your friends when it is not needed at at all.

Saudi stance on Pakistan will shift, as their business interests with India grow, which is understandable and i have nothing against it. All i say is that Pakistan should follow its business interests too where it comes in conflict with Saudi strategic interests if they can do so why not Pakistan? -

2- SA influencing about backing off the IP pipe deal has to deal with SA Iran rivalry that has been played in Pakistan since long time in Pakistan.

Well i am sick of this, because both countries proxies have spilled Pakistani blood for decades. I have had enough, i don't want to see anymore turf wars between two countries. If they hate each other so much, they should go and bomb each other, why ruin my country for their interests-?

Forget even your country...even in pdf i can see that your countrymen even don't have complete knowledge about the pipleline still then they mix the pipeline deal with respect to sectarian issue....A classic example is that in this same thread one peroson @darksin has incomplete information about the deal still then he is proposing to go for IP pipeline based on incorrect facts.

That is a dilemma we are facing with some of these ignorants .There are Pakistanis that are pro saudi and there are Pakistanis that are pro Iran, just because of their religious affiliations. The day they learn to be Pro-Pakistan, we will become a nation state.

3-The most important fact...IP can not be extended to China...I know you can not believe it...but you donot try to believe it...But the reason for it is the economic cost of transportation through pipeline is not beneficial.

AFAIK, it will be. Its a long debate for some other time.

Ultimately the future of IP is India will join later on and it may be extended to BD or other nations who are interested.

Not, until there is mutual trust... now start counting. I am in favor of India and BD, joining IPP, it will create more peace by creating something to loose. But i don't have my hopes up, just yet.

4- The most crucial aspect for Pakistan is that you should choose IP pipeline not because certain group of people want shia Iran to be partner of you rather than sunni SA....Rather it is a fact that Pakistan has to leave with Iran as he is your neighour.....Iran and India are your neighour...You may hate India or some section of your nation may dislike Iran but your trade should always preferred with them first...That makes a lot of economical sense to each business deal.

Try, telling some of my countrymen to think like that and they will slap you right in the face. They just don't know how a nation state thinks. If, we did-- and carried on our economical boom of 60s, Today we would be one of the most powerful nations on earth... the very fact we are not is because we don't simply trust ourselves enough and don't think like a nation state. I, can bet my life on this, go ahead and start a poll on PDF, and ask a question that how many Pakistanis actually believe that Saudi Arabia will send its Air Force to Pakistan [Even when they know that we can do it well and truly by ourselves], in case of a war with India. You will be astonished by the level of "optimism". [They are in for a nasty shock]

5- Final point, recently i was getting the news that SA is offering comparatively cheaper oil than Iran if India wish to duck Iran oil for switching to SAoil. And of course India may not like to put all the eggs in SA basket as INDIA feel more comfortable with Iran that going with SA, but again India needs to renegotiate with Iran about pricing of oil. Simillarly, Pakistan too can take the offer from SA and find out the cheaper option from both IP and SA offer and whatever is cheap just go for it...Donot mix your political and sect concept while dealing with the trade...There is no reason to mix it...Your economy needs cheap oil you just go for anyone whoever will provide it..

I am not pro Iran, and i have my biases against them. But i do however, feel the need for a very close relationship with them just because they are our neighbors and our closest gateway to Turkey. Reaching up to close ties with Ankara is one of our unfinished agendas.

And please donot propagate the your top secret information that in case of a event of war SA will not provide energy security to you...Neither INDIA and Pakistan is going for war not SA will ditch you...

.

I, am the last member on this forum who would want a war with anyone. And, i have sources which have confirmed what i stated before.

If you pay money even your arch enemy India will also export the products that can be traded...So money talks and SA is not an exception..

This is another important lesson my countrymen need to learn.


Great posting...

 

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

Pipeline is a matter of Energy needs for Pakistan National Interest of Pakistan need to come first

For security needs for Pakistan we should also sell JF17 thunders to Iran we can sell 400-500 orders generate 30-40 billion dollarsfor Pakistan's own economy

** USA sells weapons to Tiwan ... gets 10-30 billion dollars
** USA sells weapons to Qater UAE , SAM missiles gets 10-30 billion dollars
** USA sells weapons to Saudia Arabia gets 10-30 billion dollars
** USA sells weapons to Japan again gets 10-30 billion dollars

So ... they clearly have no morals they will sell weapons to make money !!!

Who is really destabalizing world peace ?? Iran by selling Gas to Pakistan or USA by selling weapons?

So why do we have to abide by no weapon's sales to Iran or any country ???

Not sure why we have to listen to advice from UN when USA sells 80-90 jets to any nation it wants and makes money or france sells india jets 125 jets ..

My stance is based on rationaly , what is logical

Pakistan's neighbour is iran and we have had traditionally been allies for Centuries , so just because USA decides to put sanctions on a country we should leave centuries old relations and be part of nonesense is irresponsible and it has nothing to do with religion from my prespective


The way I see is , a stable iran means , power for Paksitan for our economy and stability in Pakistan, long term stability for Pakistani economy and people


If we wag the tail and do what US wants , after iran we will be next as US will try to dearm Pakistan


Culturally Pakistan - Iran are close
We even have iranian language and also Arab text part of our own language so we are not biased

The point is

Pakistan NEEDS energy , and we should not be part of any Sanctions on IRAN ...
because today its IRAN tomorrow Sanctions will be on Pakistan ...

The real issue is not Pakistan + Iran or Pakistan + GCC Arabs
The real issue is we do not want "irrational Sanctions on neighbour country"
we want USA out of Gulf and mind its own business in its own continent

Its time to SAY NO TO SANCTIONS and send a clear message

Enough of US dada giri .. and time time be a responsible nation they need to calm down take a Xentax Anxiety pill and mind their own business in their own continent and stop playing police world wide


Iran has support of Russia
Iran has support of China
Iran is also Morally supported by Pakistan

I think any nation has right to have nuclear research and no sanctions if they have not started any wars

 

[somebozo]

Pipeline is a matter of Energy needs for Pakistan National Interest of Pakistan need to come first

For security needs for Pakistan we should also sell JF17 thunders to Iran we can sell 400-500 orders generate 30-40 billion dollars
for Pakistan's own economy

Not sure why we have to listen to advice from UN when USA sells 80-90 jets to any nation it wants and makes money or france sells india jets 125 jets ..

My stance is based on rationaly , what is logical

Pakistan's neighbour is iran and we have had traditionally been allies for Centuries , so just because USA decides to put sanctions on a country we should leave centuries old relations and be part of nonesense is irresponsible and it has nothing to do with religion from my prespective


The way I see is , a stable iran means , power for Paksitan for our economy and stability in Pakistan

If we wag the tail and do what US wants , after iran we will be next as US will try to dearm Pakistan


Culturally Pakistan - Iran are close
We even have iranian language and also Arab text part of our own language so we are not biased

The point is

Pakistan NEEDS energy , and we should not be part of any Sanctions on IRAN ...
because today its IRAN tomorrow Sanctions will be on Pakistan ...

Its time to SAY NO TO SANCTIONS and send a clear message

Enough of US dada giri .. and time time be a responsible nation they need to calm down take a Xentax Anxiety pill and mind their own business in their own continent and stop playing police world wide

Great post but the current regime of Iran is too dangerous to ignore the risk. They will start funding and arming terrorist proxies in Pakistan to square of their rivalry with Saudi Arabia - which will only create more bloodshed of Pakistani's

 

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

Well at present the only Proxy funding is being done from with in Pakistan , US embassy so Pakistan military is kept busy and not focus on Afghanistan from where Terrorist have launched chaos and not to mention drone attacks being done

We should

a) Close down US embassy
b) Move in soliders into Afghanistan
c) Cleanse out any proxies , and take out any illegal flying machines in air with Anza Missiles

Clean house , and put the trash in Nimitz class carrier and send it back where the trash came from

Its crazy that only Pakistan has these "Taliban bombings" why because we have the US embassy open in our country , same use to happen in Beirut , bombings and international terrorism orchestrated by Agents from overseas ...

This mess in Pakistan is a result of "Not realizing friend vs foe and continuing to kiss the venomous cobra hoping that this tiem around it will not bite you and instead give you a blessing"

Unfortunately USA is a country we cannot trust - should not trust , and we should make a bold stance I mean they are doing petetions and rulings , to help seperatist in Pakistan

Is that country an Ally ? I don't think so ...

I think its Pakistan's National Interest to continue to fix its economy and get gas from Iran
Get oil from Iran , sell anything it needs to sell to Iran (Food , weapons, medicine etc )

 

[Serpentine]

Great post but the current regime of Iran is too dangerous to ignore the risk. They will start funding and arming terrorist proxies in Pakistan to square of their rivalry with Saudi Arabia - which will only create more bloodshed of Pakistani's

Cut the crap please,what terrorist group has Iran supported in Pakistan?Any proof?
Why do you have a habit of blaming your inabilities on others?
Why do you always come up with the most stupid comments possible?

 

[somebozo]

Cut the crap please,what terrorist group has Iran supported in Pakistan?Any proof?
Why do you have a habit of blaming your inabilities on others?
Why do you always come up with the most stupid comments possible?

Thank you but we don't want extensions of Hamas and Hizbollah in Pakistan.
Take your rubbish else where!

 

[Kaniska]

I, like to speak through my heart.



Not entirely true, with the exception of Saudi Arabia, almost all other GCC countries are actively supporting terrorist proxies in Balochistan as we speak, so never say never.



Saudi stance on Pakistan will shift, as their business interests with India grow, which is understandable and i have nothing against it. All i say is that Pakistan should follow its business interests too where it comes in conflict with Saudi strategic interests if they can do so why not Pakistan? -



Well i am sick of this, because both countries proxies have spilled Pakistani blood for decades. I have had enough, i don't want to see anymore turf wars between two countries. If they hate each other so much, they should go and bomb each other, why ruin my country for their interests-?


That is a dilemma we are facing with some of these ignorants .There are Pakistanis that are pro saudi and there are Pakistanis that are pro Iran, just because of their religious affiliations. The day they learn to be Pro-Pakistan, we will become a nation state.


AFAIK, it will be. Its a long debate for some other time.



Not, until there is mutual trust... now start counting. I am in favor of India and BD, joining IPP, it will create more peace by creating something to loose. But i don't have my hopes up, just yet.



Try, telling some of my countrymen to think like that and they will slap you right in the face. They just don't know how a nation state thinks. If, we did-- and carried on our economical boom of 60s, Today we would be one of the most powerful nations on earth... the very fact we are not is because we don't simply trust ourselves enough and don't think like a nation state. I, can bet my life on this, go ahead and start a poll on PDF, and ask a question that how many Pakistanis actually believe that Saudi Arabia will send its Air Force to Pakistan [Even when they know that we can do it well and truly by ourselves], in case of a war with India. You will be astonished by the level of "optimism". [They are in for a nasty shock]


I am not pro Iran, and i have my biases against them. But i do however, feel the need for a very close relationship with them just because they are our neighbors and our closest gateway to Turkey. Reaching up to close ties with Ankara is one of our unfinished agendas.

.

I, am the last member on this forum who would want a war with anyone. And, i have sources which have confirmed what i stated before.



This is another important lesson my countrymen need to learn.


Great posting...

I really enjoyed with your sensible response and i appreciate you for your post.

 

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

See the problem we face is that we are led to believe that we have a terorism problem however one thing that noone can answer is

a) Who is supplying weapons to these internal creatures
b) Who is provinding abundance of Money

For example the KAMRA airbase attack , where did they get abundance of money and we are talking Millions of Dollars in account
in a would be terrorist living in streets of ruins along Afghanistan

Is that a credible story

Or a credible story is , that US embassy brought in cash in containers unchecked , goes in black van , and then these agents distributted money via local channels in parties that were willing to sell services in return for favour

Definition of favours
When time comes USA will help liberate you or call you as freedom fighters
When time comes USA will sell you heavey weaponry
When time come USA will call you independent nation

So USA has history of luring in people , with Money and slogans of freedom as bait

They first thing they do after job is done , cut ties with the party and pretend as if they never knew them and so on and so on

Iran has to my knowledge never has a dispute with Pakistan only issue they ever raised were some border crossing by a party who was funded by USA who was going into Iran and killing nuclear scientist , a proper complaint no doubt

The bigger problem however we have is USA funneling in cash and buying out reporters, doctors, lawyers , politicians and buying favors inside , and building a network and fueling mistrust and biggest clue of US hand in disturbances in Pakistan is


Look : Iran borders Afghanistan do they have Taliban problem ? no why don't the taliban go bomb in Iran simple because
they do not have US embassies


Pakistani Taliban is group funded and nurtured by USA to submit Pakistan to its will , when ever pakistan wants to do something , the local group gets a call from USA and intelligence to carry out a "defiant Operation"


Example:
Operation in India blaming it on Pakistan a ramdom act of unjustifiable cause or reason
The bombing inside mosques , I mean what kind of religious fanatic bombs a mosque of his faith ?
The crazy attacks on Naval Base
The outrageous attempt to take over the Airforce facility


The biggest danger to Pakistan is from US money going into hands of these wana be , hired soliders who tend to operate and get intelligence

US embassy closes and we control and protect our own airspace and take out drones our problems are solved

 

[Kompromat]

Great post but the current regime of Iran is too dangerous to ignore the risk.

Yes, but business is business. They have something we need, this is what should matter.

They will start funding and arming terrorist proxies in Pakistan to square of their rivalry with Saudi Arabia - which will only create more bloodshed of Pakistani's

They already tried to do it, in 80s and 90s while Saudis funded Taliban, Lashkar e Jhangvi etc. They will pay heavily, if they repeat, we specialize in proxy warfare, its a well known fact.

 

[somebozo]

Yes, but business is business. They have something we need, this is what should matter.



They already tried to do it, in 80s and 90s while Saudis funded Taliban, Lashkar e Jhangvi etc. They will pay heavily, if they repeat, we specialize in proxy warfare, its a well known fact.

Conspiring with a foreign power or propelling an agenda on behalf of foreign power or government should be considered equivalent of treason and the accused tried under military court and sentenced to death if proven guilty. Because this nuisance of Arabs vs Persian is going to last for eternity and it is important for us to balance the relationship at both end.