Ah memories! :D

[MastanKhan]

Vcheng,

The management does not realize that in order to move forward---you must have some kind of descent amongst your people---some diversity---. Otherwise the things lay stale-----.

Management----the things that you take as personal must not be the reason to keep the talent down----if you do that as you do---then what makes you different than the current pakistani politicians and their corrupt ways---you chose to start this board---with a different mindset and a different vision---but when it comes down to managing the leadership roles----you are more concerned about your personal vanity and ego rather than the national issues----.

Is that any way to get ahead at the national level----. Have you lately noticed the number opf members on this board---almost 40000----how about number of visitors on this board on a given day during a major crisis or news day----close to 49000---.

You have a third rate chairman---who can only steal articles from magazines and posts them here---is that what it is all about.

This is the place that can make some difference if managed and articulated properly----and you people have bogged it down with petty issues like 'I don't like your attitude' or I don't like the way you approached me'---or something similiar----.

It should be a matter of shame when a member of the calibre of VCHENG cannot be entered into the THINK TANK without any prejudice---..

Give me example of one member of think tank who has started up a thread with an original article of his own to propagate and progress the image of pakistan in either a positive or a negative manner and run with it right to the end----in the last one year.

You guys need to get out of this personal like and dislike issue----.

Why do you people want to stay ordinary when you have the oppurtunioty to be extraordinary----.

You know this thing is extremely fascinating and brings about such a big difference in your personality and ideology when you promote those who may not go along with your thinking or do not kowtow to you----that is the difference between the ordinary and the extra ordinary visionary----.

The nation who want to win---have more extra ordinary visionaries---where do you stand.

Why would you need someone to lead as docile as a cow to be your chairman.

 

[Bratva]

As Long as fatman 17 is chairman of TT---it will sink----I am surprised how he has kept his place----that man has not posted a single original article of his own for the years he has been here----.

Even Vice chairman Araz---a very good person----hardly ever participates----so many other think tank members have no original posts --- why are they there----.

Webby----Asim,

You complain about how pakistan is run---how incompetent the politicians are----you want them fired---well how about this board-----the THINK TANK ---- you have created something that does nothing----has no leadership role from any single TT member---what are you guys thinking----.

You have only two people with real corporate experience NIAZ / PSHAMIM---but they retired a long time ago----who do you have here that has any management or coroprate experience abroad---in europe or in usa.

Is there any diversity in the TT anymore since I left----or brown nosing the chairman is the only way to go----. Secondly---why was the chairman re-elcted after 2 years---he served his 2 year term---why was a chance not given to someone else to lead----my men---you can't even lead this board---you can't even take the intiative to fix leadership issues on this forum----and you complain about fixing the nation. You had the oppurtunity to seek new ideas and you scre-wed it up again.

I would like to see one post---an original article----from either the Chairman or the Vice Chairman on this board.


Araz----you really disappointed me----by taking this position----you have done nothing to progress this board---was it a matter of ego to portray yourself as vice chairperson of this board----you feel good now for doing nothing----.

VCHENG-----if I was in there---you would have had my vote and I would have fought for you---.

There were some classical fights between you and fatman17 earlier. Zan Zar aur Zameen is the principal motive behind every classical or novice feuds

---------- Post added at 01:44 AM ---------- Previous post was at 01:41 AM ----------

Vcheng,

The management does not realize that in order to move forward---you must have some kind of descent amongst your people---some diversity---. Otherwise the things lay stale-----.

Management----the things that you take as personal must not be the reason to keep the talent down----if you do that as you do---then what makes you different than the current pakistani politicians and their corrupt ways---you chose to start this board---with a different mindset and a different vision---but when it comes down to managing the leadership roles----you are more concerned about your personal vanity and ego rather than the national issues----.

Is that any way to get ahead at the national level----. Have you lately noticed the number opf members on this board---almost 40000----how about number of visitors on this board on a given day during a major crisis or news day----close to 49000---.

You have a third rate chairman---who can only steal articles from magazines and posts them here---is that what it is all about.

This is the place that can make some difference if managed and articulated properly----and you people have bogged it down with petty issues like 'I don't like your attitude' or I don't like the way you approached me'---or something similiar----.

It should be a matter of shame when a member of the calibre of VCHENG cannot be entered into the THINK TANK without any prejudice---..

Give me example of one member of think tank who has started up a thread with an original article of his own to propagate and progress the image of pakistan in either a positive or a negative manner and run with it right to the end----in the last one year.

You guys need to get out of this personal like and dislike issue----.

Why do you people want to stay ordinary when you have the oppurtunioty to be extraordinary----.

You know this thing is extremely fascinating and brings about such a big difference in your personality and ideology when you promote those who may not go along with your thinking or do not kowtow to you----that is the difference between the ordinary and the extra ordinary visionary----.

The nation who want to win---have more extra ordinary visionaries---where do you stand.

Why would you need someone to lead as docile as a cow to be your chairman.

Forget Vcheng, you sound more forceful and convincing then him. We will make you TT

 

[Abu Zolfiqar]

 

[VelocuR]

^^

 

[pak-marine]

Thank you, but I am only one member of a huge forum. We ALL have to pitch in if we want to see it improve. Plus, what this forum is in my absence would not be my problem, now would it?
I am not sure yet whether I want to continue my little (and belittled) efforts beyond February. Let's see, but I am not very hopeful!

you are taking all the credit sir .. lol .. ! no its not just you there are few others as well on this forum check your thank list you may notice them! in your absence they do take care a little , you along with them make a huge impact .. hope u can continue giving anti stupid dose to this naton until you are here ..

 

[VCheng]

Look guys: I do not mean to start a fight over things that happened before my time.

 

[MastanKhan]

There were some classical fights between you and fatman17 earlier. Zan Zar aur Zameen is the principal motive behind every classical or novice feuds

---------- Post added at 01:44 AM ---------- Previous post was at 01:41 AM ----------



Forget Vcheng, you sound more forceful and convincing then him. We will make you TT

Hi,

It is not about zan zar aur zamin---it is about pakistan---. This board is delightfully democratic in approach and practise but there is a problem with the TT providing any leadership role or taking the lead in giving the direction.

And also after the Osama raid---the temperature of some of the managing members has come down quite a bit.

You joined in 2010---I was in the TT before that---and resigned due to difference of practises and role of TT in management.

As a matter of fact---all this animosity that I created between myself and the mods and some TT members over the 5 years I have been here----I was proved right about what I assessed how the u s would react after a certain time and how pakistan millitary will fail in the face of american intrusion-----the Osama Bin Laden scenario vindicated my stance---and proved few senior mods and a few in the TT wrong---.

It is not something to brag about----but I was talking out of my experience and knowledge about the way the u s operates---its capabilities and what kind of shortcomings pakistan has---.

Vcheng is a great asset---just because you don't like his point of view is no reason to keep him down----.

I don't agree with him on many an issue----vehemently opposed to many of his post---but whatever he writes---it is quality material----it is professional grade.

Tell me one TT member who has written about different issues on a continuous basis in the last one year and lead from the front.


None---is that right----. Some of the thinkers my man like taimikhan and santro have been made into policemen---. That is a travesty---so instead of coming up with their intelligent ideas---they are wasting time directing traffic----. Wallah---special forces grade troops have been turned into traffic poliocemen.

 

[MastanKhan]

Look guys: I do not mean to start a fight over things that happened before my time.

It is not a fight---it is to bring to the attention of management that they have fallen back on their old habbits---. When they do things wrong and nobody tells them that they are wrong---then they start believing that they are right---that is all to it.

 

[Abu Zolfiqar]

Ching Chong Cheng-Gyun Kim.....in the end, it's a forum.

in the end, it's just the internet.

 

[MastanKhan]

Ching Chong Cheng-Gyun Kim.....in the end, it's a forum.

in the end, it's just the internet.

Abou,

My good man---you are in error----it is just not the internet---IT IS A WEAPON---you use it right and I will bring about a revolution in pakistan. I am surprised that you would say that.

 

[Developereo]

At the end of the day, most of us agree broadly on the core issues facing Pakistan. Where we may disagree is the road to redemption. Some people tend to have a more cynical style, which may put off others and come across as condescending. Others write patronizingly, like a know-it-all grandpa shaking a stick at unruly youngsters. That, too, does not engender respect for the poster.

This is a forum and ideas are ultimately judged both on the content and presentation. It is not perfect -- few things are -- but it is only as good as we make it.

As for this debate about the 'think tank', it is a tempest in a teapot. I, for one, do not judge people's posts by labels. There is nothing stopping anyone -- think thank or no think tank -- from starting a thread to conduct a thoughtful debate on any issue.

 

[Pfpilot]

At the end of the day, most of us agree broadly on the core issues facing Pakistan. Where we may disagree is the road to redemption. Some people tend to have a more cynical style, which may put off others and come across as condescending. Others write patronizingly, like a know-it-all grandpa shaking a stick at unruly youngsters. That, too, does not engender respect for the poster.

This is a forum and ideas are ultimately judged both on the content and presentation. It is not perfect -- few things are -- but it is only as good as we make it.

As for this debate about the 'think tank', it is a tempest in a teapot. I, for one, do not judge people's posts by labels. There is nothing stopping anyone -- think thank or no think tank -- from starting a thread to conduct a thoughtful debate on any issue.

With all due respect, what you see you as cynicism and patronizing is a necessity for our nation. People such as Mr. VCheng and Mr. Mastan Khan say what most of us would rather not hear, but their harsh critique jolts many Pakistanis into awakening from their denial and facing the sad future our nation faces.
Many people claim to understand the problems Pakistan faces, but their means to fixing them show that they do not understand at all. We face extremism and illiteracy in volumes unimaginable, isnt it logical to use the best and brightest to counter this movement. Harsh though it may be, we need to face reality whichever way it is required. Because it has become obvious over the last decade as our nation has crashed to ever new lows, Pakistanis are just not seeing the reality on their own...we need these members to show us the way, because we just aren't seeing it.

 

[Awesome]

As Long as fatman 17 is chairman of TT---it will sink----I am surprised how he has kept his place----that man has not posted a single original article of his own for the years he has been here----.

Even Vice chairman Araz---a very good person----hardly ever participates----so many other think tank members have no original posts --- why are they there----.

Webby----Asim,

You complain about how pakistan is run---how incompetent the politicians are----you want them fired---well how about this board-----the THINK TANK ---- you have created something that does nothing----has no leadership role from any single TT member---what are you guys thinking----.

You have only two people with real corporate experience NIAZ / PSHAMIM---but they retired a long time ago----who do you have here that has any management or coroprate experience abroad---in europe or in usa.

Is there any diversity in the TT anymore since I left----or brown nosing the chairman is the only way to go----. Secondly---why was the chairman re-elcted after 2 years---he served his 2 year term---why was a chance not given to someone else to lead----my men---you can't even lead this board---you can't even take the intiative to fix leadership issues on this forum----and you complain about fixing the nation. You had the oppurtunity to seek new ideas and you scre-wed it up again.

I would like to see one post---an original article----from either the Chairman or the Vice Chairman on this board.


Araz----you really disappointed me----by taking this position----you have done nothing to progress this board---was it a matter of ego to portray yourself as vice chairperson of this board----you feel good now for doing nothing----.

VCHENG-----if I was in there---you would have had my vote and I would have fought for you---.

You always keep taking shots at Fatman in the public domain - I don't think the gentleman as ever granted you the favor in kind. Khair he has a leadership position, and a public office brings critique as well.

The TT is run democratically. It has its elections, its voting on selection, its own constitutions. I have my own complains against TT for its inactivity too, but I like to support the democratic process too, and ultimately given enough time democracy will settle this issue as well. If they are Pakistani leaders, you're Pakistani awaam in this analogy. Pehle khudi vote dia, phir coup coup coup ki awazein.

About inactivity, thats life. People who have time today won't have any tomorrow. Even I don't have time to be on this forum as much I would like to. It happens. The problem should be mitigated but not by compromising on the set democratic procedures.

 

[RazPaK]

I have been a long time follower of the forum, even when the current mods sounded like children while posting garbage. To be honest, a lot of Pakistani posters here don't make sense, think tanks, mods, or researchers alike. Having had family members in the government, and in the defense forces, I've heard nothing but politics my entire life. When I see crap threads by fellow Pakistanis, all I can do out of respect is to ignore them. Although I hate Vcheng, probably 30% of his posts I did/do like. The approach he takes towards Pakistan is not relevant to our country at all, but I admire his efforts. What I have realized is that perhaps, I should become a whistle blower as well, however my thoughts are just a grain of sand in this desert of confusion.

 

[Awesome]

For those who are still curious for whatever reason, here is one of my old PMs, with only a few details removed:



What was the result?

I lost the TT election UNANIMOUSLY.

Personally I wouldn't have told you about the election result - I wouldn't have told you there was an election in the first place. It's never our intent to hurt people's sentiments, but since clearly you have raised the issue and are seeking an explanation, I can comment upon my own actions, where I did not vote - as per rules of the TT, however I did debate strongly against your inclusion.

My primary reasoning has always been a severe lack of trust that you would have Pakistan's best interest. You have the capability to help Pakistan, no doubt, but there is a lack of demonstration on your intent to help Pakistan. Its not your critique of any of the institutions that perpetuates this - heck I have strongly spoken out against our leaders (military and civilian).

There are many other bigger critiques of Pakistan than you. Let's take Mastan - there has never been a doubt about him and his allegiance to Pakistan.

Flip through all the big issues that Pakistan has faced in recent months, any intelligent observer would observe some key red flags you raise. Your positions have always been against whatever Pakistan has been struggling for.

At times you've argued - "Koi fada nahi, just give in" type arguments.
At times you've argued - "It's wrong, but America did it so its fine"

Most of the times the tune is the same. Not on a single issue have you been with Pakistan.

Shikway ka koi base bhi hona chahiye. We all NRP have done some sort of betrayal with Pak by leaving it. Deep down I think 99% of us somehow always try to undo the wrongs we have done to Pak. But we have never given the impression ke hum Pakistan ko dillon se chorh chukay hain.

Even when Iqbal argued with Allah, he reminded Allah about the deep passion for loyalty Muslims still keep buried in their hearts.

Tujhko chora ke rasool-e-arabi ko chora
Buth gari pesha kiya, buth shikani ko chora

Ishq ko ishq ki aashufta-sari ko chora
Rasm-e-salman-o-owais-e-qarani ko chora

Aag takbeer ki seenon mein dabi rakhte hain
Zindagi misl-e-bilal-e-habshi rakhte hain


Ishq ki khair, who pehli si ada bhi na sahi,
Jaada paimayi-e-taslim-o-raza bhi na sahi,

Mujhtarib dil sifat-e-qibla numa bhi na sahi
Aur pabandi-e-Aaeen-e-wafa bhi na sahi

Kabhi hum se, kabhi ghairon se shanasaai hai,
Baat kehne ki nahin, tu bhi to harjaai hai.