Ah memories! :D

[Jango]

Not meaning to be rude or anything, but speaking of TT, where is muse nowadays?

 

[Developereo]

With all due respect, what you see you as cynicism and patronizing is a necessity for our nation.

No, sir. Cynicism and patronizing are never acceptable in any civilized discussion. Perhaps you are confusing them with satire. The latter is an art form and, when used by talented individuals, can do wonders to open people's eyes. The former is just laziness on the part of someone to formulate their thoughts in a civilized manner.

People such as Mr. VCheng and Mr. Mastan Khan say what most of us would rather not hear, but their harsh critique jolts many Pakistanis into awakening from their denial and facing the sad future our nation faces.
Many people claim to understand the problems Pakistan faces, but their means to fixing them show that they do not understand at all. We face extremism and illiteracy in volumes unimaginable, isnt it logical to use the best and brightest to counter this movement. Harsh though it may be, we need to face reality whichever way it is required. Because it has become obvious over the last decade as our nation has crashed to ever new lows, Pakistanis are just not seeing the reality on their own...we need these members to show us the way, because we just aren't seeing it.

I am not taking potshots at any individual. I actually agree with much of what VCheng and MastanKhan say, though not necessarily the manner in which it is said.

And, contrary to your claim, most of do indeed acknowledge the problems facing Pakistan. All I am saying is that people should try to conduct discussions with less cynicism and more respect. Like I wrote, both content and presentation matter.

 

[Awesome]

I think the concern arises when you mistake dissent for disloyalty and disloyalty for dissent.

Again IMO

Dissent - Speaking up against the government for supporting Americans
Disloyalty - Suicide Bombing in Pakistan for supporting the Americans

Dissent - Speaking up against Extremism in Pakistan
Disloyalty - Supporting bombing through drones and raids against extremists

The nuances do not escape the intelligent observers and opinions are formed based upon such actions.

 

[RazPaK]

This forum used to be full of life and I really did enjoy moments here. There were insightful discussions, tolerable trolling, and quality posts. At the moment pdf is a troll factory, current mods have ego problems, and there are no intriguing threads. When I first came to the site I wanted to click each and every thread, and read every article and post in depth. Now I cringe at thread titles, and share my dead weight to contributing to troll posts. A lot of members that had meaningful posts are today inactive. I feel like I'm just being dragged throughout the times. I should have stopped posting when Jana stopped. I really did appreciate Jana's posts. I'm seriously considering for the WebMaster to ban my account. Maybe it's time for me to move on.

 

[Raja.Pakistani]

Some Pakistani including Mr Vcheng( I also thought he is american ) need to change his negativity towards Pakistan. There is a clear difference between insult and criticism. Criticism for sake of criticism only demoralize a nation.

 

[Abu Zolfiqar]

he's one tadpole in the ocean; one guy's post wont demoralize anything.

there's constructive criticism, and then there's useless banter. There is a fine distinction between the 2.

 

[Vinod2070]

Since I am more scientifically inclined, Ill quote Albert Einstein here: "Great spirits have always found violent opposition from mediocrities. The latter cannot understand it when a man does not thoughtlessly submit to hereditary."

Golden words. And true for most of the East I guess, not only a specific country.

The mediocrity tries to shout down the excellence. It wants only the comfort of the conformance.

 

[Raja.Pakistani]

he's one tadpole in the ocean; one guy's post wont demoralize anything.

there's constructive criticism, and then there's useless banter. There is a fine distinction between the 2.

Sure i dont mind constructive criticism as its a wake up call for peoples to let them know that there is somthing wrong which need to be correct but you dont have to do it in every single posts. we have our indian members to let us know our shortcomings. we need pakistani with positive thinking and optimist approach

 

[MastanKhan]

You always keep taking shots at Fatman in the public domain - I don't think the gentleman as ever granted you the favor in kind. Khair he has a leadership position, and a public office brings critique as well.

The TT is run democratically. It has its elections, its voting on selection, its own constitutions. I have my own complains against TT for its inactivity too, but I like to support the democratic process too, and ultimately given enough time democracy will settle this issue as well. If they are Pakistani leaders, you're Pakistani awaam in this analogy. Pehle khudi vote dia, phir coup coup coup ki awazein.

About inactivity, thats life. People who have time today won't have any tomorrow. Even I don't have time to be on this forum as much I would like to. It happens. The problem should be mitigated but not by compromising on the set democratic procedures.

Asim,

You complain about their in-activity------then what are you waiting for----fire them----did you complain about Ijaz Butt----you wanted him fired----Zardari let him be till the pak team was destroyed----pakistan railways----the issues should have been addressed sooner----Zardari let the status quo be----it is totally broken down now---PIA----should I continue----. Every issue with the govt----we are mad at them for continuing the status quo-----. How about our General Kiyani----how about your comments about Kiyani---what he should do---take action---am I saying anything different to you. Take action----TT have become totally inept----do something.

And then----look at your logo----you want to change all that----you want to change the incompetent govt----but where you have control---you are doing nothing----. Asim---that part is distrubing----I am not going on a wild tangent today out of the blue---I see the comment on your avatar---then from your post of yesterday or day before yesterday---you ask what you are going to tell your son about a certain issue----.

Now---if you are threatened by the state of pakistan or pak intel agencies---I can understand that---but what do you think the concern I live under---have anyone of you dare written about the u s as I have living in the united states----I put my life on the limb for some of the stuff I have written---some in pakistan want to take me out----.

Asim---my thing is---that I am only doing this because you aksed me to do it---I am totally supporting you through your avatar title--and your comments from your post---so make us proud---and start the cleansing at home----.

This board needs a millitary take over for a change---being a millitary forum----you are practicing democracy in the TT at the wrong place---. We need a millitary solution---we need a millitary style take over. We need a coupe---.

People must not under estimate the powers of this web site---if managed and run properly---this could be the shining star that pakistan needs----those who are saying that this is just an internet website---they are totally wrong---. The potential that this website has-----if unleashed properly in unision can do wonders for pakistan----.

Make the ' Red ' one--- make us proud of you---not that we are not.

 

[Elmo]

Come to think about it - where is Jana? She's been MIA for so long. Any news? Is she dead or alive?

 

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

I thought V Cheng was a Asian American from viet nam who came to USA after vietnam war with his papa and mam working on rice fields in vietnam rescued by church more or less kidnapped by chuch as the soliders left the island

 

[Abu Zolfiqar]

Jana is a strong girl, Mashallah.....She's surely alive and doing well, just busy with work!

her blog is still being regularly updated...


as for Cheng-Gyun Kim, yea we definitely don't see eye to eye on some things; definitely have a different approach towards debate......but he's still a good guy to have here. Dissent is never a bad thing, we are civilized people.

we even allow hindustanys to flood this forum anyways, so why not him?

 

[Trucker]

i have never seen a neutral pakistani like vcheng

 

[Raja.Pakistani]

i have never seen a neutral pakistani like vcheng

i know indian definition of neutral pakistani lol

Have you ever seen any neutral indian ? :p

 

[JonAsad]

i have never seen a neutral pakistani like vcheng

He presents amrikan point of view which inherently becomes your point of you- thus you like him- its natural- If Mastankhan is positive and negative about Pakistan- VCheng is just Negative-

Personally i want to see VCheng as TT and MastanKhan back on TT- i want to see TT fight (arguments)- This might resurrect the old sleeping TT Gaints -

---------- Post added at 08:14 AM ---------- Previous post was at 08:12 AM ----------

i know indian definition of neutral pakistani lol

Have you ever seen any neutral indian ? :p

Nope their neutral or any one with difference of opinion- immediately becomes a false flagger Pakistani- Vary sensitive lot-