AH-1Z Viper, 1000 Hellfire II Missiles approved for sale to Pakistan.

[Winchester]

AH-1Z Viper • Close Air Support

 

[C130]

Get them but do not drop the Chinese/Turkish options. In an eventuality, US will drop Pakistan like a hot potato and we'll be embargoed in no time.

maybe is Pakistan going to be a bad boy to get those sanctions??


I think we are under the impression that these helis and missile will used solely for counter terrorists ops

 

[airmarshal]

Yeah for sure in 2 billion we are getting 22 block3 apache's with 500 hellfire & 15 chinooks

For paying half, 1 billion$ You are getting 15 ah-1z viper with 1000 missiles.

Compare both deals operationally

I dont think the deal is final. Usually there will be some negotiation. Also, the first purchase is a little expensive as it comes with experts, training in the country and abroad.

AH-1Z is quite capable platform. If not better than Apache, then as good.

To further finish the argument and leave a reference in case another Cha from across the border comes along with another copy paste.

The latest Hellfire variant is the AGM-114R multi–purpose Hellfire II missile, (aka Hellfire Romeo). According to the U.S. Army, the AGM-114R will replace all other Hellfire II missile configurations (K/N/M/P). The AGM-114R consolidates the capabilities of all previous Hellfire missile variants. It is equipped with semi–active laser (SAL) seekers into a single missile capable of defeating a broad range of targets. The AGM-114R can be launched from multiple air, sea and ground platforms, autonomously or with remote designation. From pre-launch to detonation, the AGM-114R employs a range of technological improvements that boost its effectiveness and utility. The AGM-114R features a three–axis inertial measurement unit, which enables properly equipped launch platforms to engage targets to the side and behind without maneuvering into position. The AGM-114R can be launched from higher altitudes than previous variants due to its enhanced guidance system and improved navigation capabilities. A new multi–purpose warhead enables the missile to defeat hard, soft and enclosed targets, which allows pilots to engage many targets with a single Hellfire loadout.

Good one @Oscar. Some good info as well as reprimand for a sidekick

 

[syedali73]

maybe is Pakistan going to be a bad boy to get those sanctions??


I think we are under the impression that these helis and missile will used solely for counter terrorists ops

It is not about being a bad boy, it is about not submitting one's selves completely to US or aligning one's policies with those of US. There will always be instances when we'll try to do things that would be in our best national interest but not attuned with US interests.

I am not sure but the money going to be spent on these embargo -prone items from US could better be spent in JV projects with China. At this concluding stage of war against TTP, do we really need these helicopters? How long will it take to get those? @Oscar

 

[SQ8]

maybe is Pakistan going to be a bad boy to get those sanctions??


I think we are under the impression that these helis and missile will used solely for counter terrorists ops

These Helis will be used as they wish regardless of what story is spun.
Really doesnt matter though, techically we maintain a balance between two Squabblers.. Keep India "Balanced", keep Pakistan "Balanced"(if there is any word for that country).. and Keep China from having total monopoly in Pakistan.. and make some money along the way.. Win Win!.

What most people in their anger forget, that when FMF is given out and US equipment is purchased.. technically that is money back in the coffer of the United States treasury and keeps keeps hundreds if not thousands of US families in employment. Call it a subsidy if you wish.

It is not about being a bad boy, it is about not submitting one's selves completely to US or aligning one's policies with those of US. There will always be instances when we'll try to do things that would be in our best national interest but not attuned with US interests.

I am not sure but the money going to be spent on these embargo -prone items from US could better be spent in JV projects with China. At this concluding stage of war against TTP, do we really need these helicopters? How long will it take to get those? @Oscar

Depends upon the program office managing it but three years probably.

 

[C130]

These Helis will be used as they wish regardless of what story is spun.
Really doesnt matter though, techically we maintain a balance between two Squabblers.. Keep India "Balanced", keep Pakistan "Balanced"(if there is any word for that country).. and Keep China from having total monopoly in Pakistan.. and make some money along the way.. Win Win!.

What most people in their anger forget, that when FMF is given out and US equipment is purchased.. technically that is money back in the coffer of the United States treasury and keeps keeps hundreds if not thousands of US families in employment. Call it a subsidy if you wish.

if I was a socialist I would just say take that billion and give 1,000 familes $10,000 or a tax break.

Pakistan can do what she likes, but I think we all suspect U.S military aid and equipment to be used against Pakistan homegrown and foreign terrorists and not India or other neighbors.

but it doesn't tip the balance either way

 

[alikazmi007]

Pretty Cool Optics:

Did some research on AN/AAQ-30 Target Sight Systems. We're suppose to be getting 17 of these;

The most significant AH-1Z enhancement is the Lockheed Martin AAQ-30 Hawkeye target sight system (TSS). It comprises a colour TV, laser rangefinder/designator, laser spot tracker and a mid-wave FLIR, which the USMC claims offers twice the detection, recognition and identification range of second generation systems. The TSS has four fields of view and extended range (XR) mode, which with image processing provides another 60% range increase. The TSS more than adequately meets the Hellfire II's 9km range and keeps the AH-1Z beyond the reach of most man portable surface-to-air missiles.

 

[Path-Finder]

if I was a socialist I would just say take that billion and give 1,000 familes $10,000 or a tax break.

Pakistan can do what she likes, but I think we all suspect U.S military aid and equipment to be used against Pakistan homegrown and foreign terrorists and not India or other neighbors.

but it doesn't tip the balance either way

Yeah well does it work the other way as well if you scrutinize one side and allow the allow the other to have a open hand then you truly are kidding your self. Hypocrisy!!!

 

[C130]

is also used by the KC-130 Harvest Hawk.

Yeah well does it work the other way as well if you scrutinize one side and allow the allow the other to have a open hand then you truly are kidding your self. Hypocrisy!!!

aye I want both sides to have peace. I honestly think terrorism is the biggest threat to both countries.

and I believe that's the target these two systems will face in the coming decades.

 

[MastanKhan]

@MastanKhan

Hopefully, Multan will have new AH-1Zs soon.

The cobras fly right close to my house. I can walk upto the fence of the runway on the north side.

 

[alikazmi007]

Here's the info on the Top Owl, AN/AAQ-30 Target Sight Systems;
We're suppose to be getting 32 of these systems.

 

[Path-Finder]

Here's the info on the Top Owl, AN/AAQ-30 Target Sight Systems;
We're suppose to be getting 32 of these systems.

View attachment 212945

Let me take a stab in the Dark. 15 helos? 2 Crew per helo? 15 x 2 = 30 + 2 Top Owl, AN/AAQ-30 Target Sight Systems!!

 

[alikazmi007]

Let me take a stab in the Dark. 15 helos? 2 Crew per helo? 15 x 2 = 30 + 2 Top Owl, AN/AAQ-30 Target Sight Systems!!

got that right!!!

Just one extra pair as a reserve, doesn't make good sense.
We should have at least three more pairs, just in case, a bird goes down and the ones already used by the crew are not recoverable (God forbids).......

1 Billion$ for just 15 Helos, whose soul are forfeiting to get this 'magnificent deal'?

 

[Saifullah Sani]

State Dept. OKs $952M Pakistan Helo Deal

The US State Department has cleared a $952 million sale to Pakistan that includes 15 AH-1Z Viper attack helicopters and 1,000 Hellfire II missiles, according to a Defense Security Cooperation Agency (DSCA) announcement.
The sale is intended to support Pakistan's counterterrorism and counterinsurgency operations with a precision-strike, enhanced-survivability aircraft that can operate at high-altitudes, according to DSCA's Monday announcement. Pakistan would use the gear in operations in the North Waziristan Agency, the Federally Administered Tribal Areas and other remote and mountainous areas in all-weather, day-and-night environments.
"This proposed sale will contribute to the foreign policy and national security of the United States by helping to improve the security of a country vital to U.S. foreign policy and national security goals in South Asia," the announcement says.
The local Bell representatives in Pakistan, Access Zone, did not respond to queries regarding when they expected delivery should the deal be approved, or if they hoped more would be acquired to fully replace the approximately 48 Cobras currently in service.
Analysts in Pakistan expressed surprise at the announcement. Though the Viper had long been suggested as a replacement for the current fleet of AH-1F/S helicopter gunships, US congressional opposition seemed to make acquisition of further US equipment unlikely.
Analyst, author and former Australian defense attache to Islamabad, Brian Cloughley, says he was "absolutely certain that the US would not supply any more attack helicopters."
But he welcomes the announcement.
"This is very good news for Pakistan on two counts: First, the Army is getting one of the most sophisticated attack helicopters in the world; second, it shows that the US has not abandoned Pakistan, as so many people thought it had," he said.
"It does require the assent of Congress," said Cloughley, "but if Congress were to block it this would send a negative message concerning its determination to keep up the war on terror."
This is not to say that unrestricted arms sales will resume as "it seems that the main criterion is that US-supplied materiel must be COIN [counterinsurgency] specific. There would be difficulty in providing systems that are obviously intended for general warfare, i.e. against India," Cloughley says.
Claude Rakisits, nonresident senior fellow at the Atlantic Council's South Asia Center, said that "in its deliberations about whether to approve such a sale to Pakistan, the fact that the provision of this new capability will not alter the military balance between the two nuclear-armed states – Pakistan and India – will make it easier for the lawmakers to agree to this sale."
The announcement comes at a time when multiple types of helicopters are being pursued, both to replace the Cobras, and potentially support paramilitary and special forces operations.
Analyst Haris Khan of the Pakistan Military Consortium think tank said that even though it is a small number, the Vipers could replace at least some of the Cobras and it comes at a time when China has supplied three WZ-10 gunships, and Russia may be close to supplying approximately 20 Mi-35 Hinds
Agence France-Press reported Friday that Pakistan has in recent weeks focused its fight against the Taliban on the Tirah Valley, a Federally Administered Tribal Area, with a series of air strikes and ground assaults. Though the area, with steep valleys and dense woods, is inaccessible, Pakistan's military has claimed it has taken control of key terrain there.
Pakistan had sought new helicopter gunships for the best part of a decade to replace the Cobras, which have been fast wearing out due to the pace of operations against the Pakistani Taliban and its allies in and around the tribal areas bordering Afghanistan. In November, it appeared Pakistan was closing a deal for Mi-35 Hind heavy attack helicopters, based on a Pakistani radio interview with Russia's ambassador.
The US sale includes 32 T-700 GE 401C engines; 36 H-1 technical refresh mission computers; 17 AN/AAQ-30 target sight systems; 30 629F-23 ultra high frequency/very high frequency communication systems; 19 H-764 embedded global positioning system/inertial navigation systems; 32 helmet mounted display/optimized top owl; 17 APX-117A identification friend or foe; 17 AN/AAR-47 missile warning systems; 17 AN/ALE-47 countermeasure dispenser sets; 18 AN/APR-39C(V)2 radar warning receivers; 15 joint mission planning systems; and 17 M197 20mm gun systems.
Bell Helicopter, Textron, General Electric, Boeing and Lockheed Martin will be the principal contractors.
State Dept. OKs $952M Pakistan Helo Deal

 

[SQ8]

if I was a socialist I would just say take that billion and give 1,000 familes $10,000 or a tax break.

Pakistan can do what she likes, but I think we all suspect U.S military aid and equipment to be used against Pakistan homegrown and foreign terrorists and not India or other neighbors.

but it doesn't tip the balance either way

It always will be. And you cant really keep it that way. The US military rotates units and equipment(we dont leave the F-16s of one sq in Bagram so the pilots of an A-10 unit come into fly it), so the does PakMil.