AH-1Z Viper, 1000 Hellfire II Missiles approved for sale to Pakistan.

[Imran Khan]

1965, 70S, 90S, AND 2016 ... REPEAT ITSELF

Our forces will never learn ever

 

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

It comes down to Engine Manufacturing if we put effort like Turkey has placed in Heilcopter Engine , Fighter Jet Engine we would not be waiting for these expensive toys

 

[ziaulislam]

View attachment 511772

so how much did the GoP paid for these assets

 

[Mugwop]

Let me say this in urdu "Viper pay haath baitha waa hai" "z-10 aur t-129 pay haath nahi baitha wah hai and it takes time to do so"

 

[GriffinsRule]

so how much did the GoP paid for these assets

I dont know but not much. FMS is not our money per say and we stopped making payments hence the non-delivery.

 

[Bilal Khan (Quwa)]

so how much did the GoP paid for these assets

$0.

The AH-1Zs were ordered using FMF and CSF (aid and CT/COIN reimbursement).

When the US cut the aid, Pakistan didn't want to pay for them using its own money.

The US put them in storage until the aid resumes or we change our minds. No sanctions.

As it stands, national funds are going into the T129 from Turkey. Assuming that doesn't crash as a result of US-Turkish issues, then I think the PAA will increase the T129 order (or look to the ATAK 2) if the AH-1Z doesn't come.

Personally, I'd like to see the Rooivalk.

 

[bananarepublic]

$0.

The AH-1Zs were ordered using FMF and CSF (aid and CT/COIN reimbursement).

When the US cut the aid, Pakistan didn't want to pay for them using its own money.

The US put them in storage until the aid resumes or we change our minds. No sanctions.

As it stands, national funds are going into the T129 from Turkey. Assuming that doesn't crash as a result of US-Turkish issues, then I think the PAA will increase the T129 order (or look to the ATAK 2) if the AH-1Z doesn't come.

Personally, I'd like to see the Rooivalk.

personally i would like to see Pakistan and South Africa work on rooivalk 2 with upgraded power plant and internal
the deal might be even better if we get to also produce puma locally paving the way for pakistans non existant helicopter industry
and even more importantly Pakistan needs to diversify its weapon procurement especially from the US by looking for alternatives.

 

[jupiter2007]

$0.

The AH-1Zs were ordered using FMF and CSF (aid and CT/COIN reimbursement).

When the US cut the aid, Pakistan didn't want to pay for them using its own money.

The US put them in storage until the aid resumes or we change our minds. No sanctions.

As it stands, national funds are going into the T129 from Turkey. Assuming that doesn't crash as a result of US-Turkish issues, then I think the PAA will increase the T129 order (or look to the ATAK 2) if the AH-1Z doesn't come.

Personally, I'd like to see the Rooivalk.

Had we approached South Africa back in early 2000 and worked with them on Denel Rooivalk, we wouldn't be discussing this topic. We would have built 4 complete squadron of Roovialk X in Pakistan.
As far as US-Pakistan relationship is concerned, Pakistani corrupt mafia was funding anti-Pakistan lobby in USA, and that funding is slow down a bit. if nothing major happens in Afghanistan from now until March 2019, we should see improvement in relationship, which means, aid package, helicopter and Jordan F-16 coming to Pakistan (if they are still available).

 

[denel]

Had we approached South Africa back in early 2000 and worked with them on Denel Rooivalk, we wouldn't be discussing this topic. We would have built 4 complete squadron of Roovialk X in Pakistan.
As far as US-Pakistan relationship is concerned, Pakistani corrupt mafia was funding anti-Pakistan lobby in USA, and that funding is slow down a bit. if nothing major happens in Afghanistan from now until March 2019, we should see improvement in relationship, which means, aid package, helicopter and Jordan F-16 coming to Pakistan (if they are still available).

That is the early test bed Rooivalk in the picture. The irony is Rooivalk was being offered when Turkey was trying to opt between 129 vs rooivalk; american/Eu pressure made them tilt towards T129. It was one of the worst weeks when we had found at Atlas what actually transpired.

Again I say it; Paks lost huge amount of opportunity on Cheetah C/D conversions; plus Rooivalk complete TOTs not to mention IFVs/artillery not to mention communications which would run circles around Harris.

 

[Path-Finder]

The Rooivalk discussion goes back to 2004/5 I remember it very well it was being sought as a complete replacement for the Cobra. Considering how lame duck those Cobra were, absolutely restricted in their mission capability.

I guess it's not too late to revisit Rooivalk again.

 

[ziaulislam]

Had we approached South Africa back in early 2000 and worked with them on Denel Rooivalk, we wouldn't be discussing this topic. We would have built 4 complete squadron of Roovialk X in Pakistan.
As far as US-Pakistan relationship is concerned, Pakistani corrupt mafia was funding anti-Pakistan lobby in USA, and that funding is slow down a bit. if nothing major happens in Afghanistan from now until March 2019, we should see improvement in relationship, which means, aid package, helicopter and Jordan F-16 coming to Pakistan (if they are still available).

no, the point is USA knows it can squeez pakistan through other means, the carrot is gone, its only going to be stick. pakistan ignored the USA congress while india lobbied for years, any aid, weapons will be strictly frowned by pro indian group which has strong roots in congress and whole indian community is united against pakistan here. you cant send a cent down to pakistan without the indian lobby crying ..how can you think about other weapon systems

things will only chnage if USA realizes it cannot squeez us(Econmical mis management is over), if pakistn polcy is straigth forward and if we are potical strong

That is the early test bed Rooivalk in the picture. The irony is Rooivalk was being offered when Turkey was trying to opt between 129 vs rooivalk; american/Eu pressure made them tilt towards T129. It was one of the worst weeks when we had found at Atlas what actually transpired.

Again I say it; Paks lost huge amount of opportunity on Cheetah C/D conversions; plus Rooivalk complete TOTs not to mention IFVs/artillery not to mention communications which would run circles around Harris.

pakistan needs to focus not only on their immediate needs but also slowly builidng up defense industry with TOT, i think south africa is one avenue that was not explored, especially in choppers, Air to Air missles, SAM and artillery sector

 

[jupiter2007]

no, the point is USA knows it can squeez pakistan through other means, the carrot is gone, its only going to be stick. pakistan ignored the USA congress while india lobbied for years, any aid, weapons will be strictly frowned by pro indian group which has strong roots in congress and whole indian community is united against pakistan here. you cant send a cent down to pakistan without the indian lobby crying ..how can you think about other weapon systems

things will only chnage if USA realizes it cannot squeez us(Econmical mis management is over), if pakistn polcy is straigth forward and if we are potical strong


pakistan needs to focus not only on their immediate needs but also slowly builidng up defense industry with TOT, i think south africa is one avenue that was not explored, especially in choppers, Air to Air missles, SAM and artillery sector

Government and institutions are not the only thing corrupt in Pakistan, our army is also corrupt.
Army general/s children are studying in top universities in USA where yearly tuitions is over 100,000 dollars. Where is this money is coming from?
Our army general are corrupt, their wives do thousands of dollars of shopping on USA visit. Where does this money come from? Instead of kick back defence vendors buy expensive gifts for general’s wife.... Gifts are loaded in c-130 and taken to Islamabad.

If you want to eliminate corrupt and corruption, it has to be done correctly and for everyone. Why so much land/plots are allotted to higher ranking officers? Why they travel in business class instead of economy class? Why army thinks they are better than everyone? Army and agencies need to stop experimenting with Pakistan.

I am not saying that whole army is corrupt but there are few bad apples who are abusing their power and army needs to bring proper checks and balances. They also need to address grievances of Pashtuns in the Army, Airforce and Navy. Pashtuns feel that Pakistani army doctrine changed and it will NOT allow a non-Punjabi to reach higher ranking. If this not fixed now, foreign agencies can take advantage of just like they did before 1971 in Dhaka.

 

[BATMAN]

When Pakistan fail to react strongly.. US will continue to ridicule Pakistan in same way.
Now is time to put a fullstop on free transit aid, Imran Khan should take the bold decision and start charging $10'000 from each American container landing at Pakistan ports.

 

[denel]

no, the point is USA knows it can squeez pakistan through other means, the carrot is gone, its only going to be stick. pakistan ignored the USA congress while india lobbied for years, any aid, weapons will be strictly frowned by pro indian group which has strong roots in congress and whole indian community is united against pakistan here. you cant send a cent down to pakistan without the indian lobby crying ..how can you think about other weapon systems

things will only chnage if USA realizes it cannot squeez us(Econmical mis management is over), if pakistn polcy is straigth forward and if we are potical strong


pakistan needs to focus not only on their immediate needs but also slowly builidng up defense industry with TOT, i think south africa is one avenue that was not explored, especially in choppers, Air to Air missles, SAM and artillery sector

Correct. Unfortunately, Paks had their own interests which were not even aligned with the true patriotic duties for long term internal growth but who paid highest commission and other vested interests. Indeed it is sad in a way of what could have been a hugely profitable partnership.

 

[ziaulislam]

When Pakistan fail to react strongly.. US will continue to ridicule Pakistan in same way.
Now is time to put a fullstop on free transit aid, Imran Khan should take the bold decision and start charging $10'000 from each American container landing at Pakistan ports.

unfortunately now is not the time, we are broke, we need mulitlateral donor organization to start, it s time to build up the country, decade of democracy has destroyed the country fundamentals..debt that at the beginning of 2006 stood at 50% of gdp has gone back up to 76% nearly doubled in last 10 years..we are in the same position as we were in 1998