AH-1Z Viper, 1000 Hellfire II Missiles approved for sale to Pakistan.

[imadul]

Did Pakistan pay commercial price or reduced price packaged under DoD FMS?
@Bilal Khan (Quwa) @Bilal Khan 777 @fatman17 @Windjammer @Zarvan
Thank you, folks.

 

[RIP Pak LAW]

they are not coming now

 

[ZedZeeshan]

Did Pakistan pay commercial price or reduced price packaged under DoD FMS?
@Bilal Khan (Quwa) @Bilal Khan 777 @fatman17 @Windjammer @Zarvan
Thank you, folks.

Commercial Price not reduce price..

 

[RIP Pak LAW]

partial FMS.

Also in late 80s and early 90s we paid commercial prices for the F16s but later on many were stopped

 

[SQ8]

Worst case scenario these Zulus will be requisitioned back by thr USMC as they are of fairly similar configuration.

However, it would seem that with backdoor channels these aircraft will arrive but only the number ordered and their status will be toys at best in the east and overkill in the internal front.

 

[ziaulislam]

if commercial price was paid one must ask why, especially the current trend of relations and abundance of other options
i understand the f-16s given its previous use with PAF but not the zulus

 

[SQ8]

if commercial price was paid one must ask why, especially the current trend of relations and abundance of other options
i understand the f-16s given its previous use with PAF but not the zulus

The zulus offer a lot of common handling in the air and provide a proven platform and supplier experience to build on.

Simple analogy, you don’t know geely— you know mercedes and would prefer it if you could. Now if the relationship went sour because our non-existant leadership could not see what team the orange buffoon was brining with him; that is their fault and not the man who thinks we live in a fecalpit.

 

[Zarvan]

they are not coming now

Right now news of USA stopping them. I think USA will give them USA establishment is trying to calm down our leadership and saying they want to remain partners and all that. So Viper most likely will come

 

[Bilal Khan (Quwa)]

Worst case scenario these Zulus will be requisitioned back by thr USMC as they are of fairly similar configuration.

However, it would seem that with backdoor channels these aircraft will arrive but only the number ordered and their status will be toys at best in the east and overkill in the internal front.

There are no embargoes in place. I guess the issue would be the possibility that the AH-1Zs were paid in part (or all) using FMF. However, the U.S. froze future payments, I don't know what it can do to retroactively suspend, that would just be punitive and a genuine sign of collapsing US-Pakistan defence ties (like the 1990s). However, the US DoD and DoS have been forthright about maintaining ties. The fact that the DoD is not worried about supply line closures is a clear sign that they're engaged with Pakistan. Finally, while political sides in Pakistan and the US are fuming, the bureaucrats and armed forces are trying to manage things.

The transfer of these birds, FMF and CSF is contingent on the DoD certifying Pakistan's work, so it's his word against Trump's fuming. It seems the DoD wants to sign-off, but he has to deal with Trump basically dismissing any real gains with a selfish tweet. If it's apparent that Trump is an unstable individual, then the DoD can bide its time and try to link Pakistan up via 3rd parties (e.g. Turkey/T129) to achieve strategic aims until Trump is out. Remember, in Carter's time the US had offered to link Pakistan up to financing sources in Europe for the purchase of Mirage 2000s instead of F-16s. If the AH-1Zs are canned then it's a matter of the US helping Turkey increase the loan to $2 bn so that Pakistan can get 45 T129 instead of 30. Remember, this is about aid money, not embargoes - so the LHTEC engines should, technically, be a go.

 

[HannibalBarca]

Someone is happy at TAI...

There are no embargoes in place. I guess the issue would be the possibility that the AH-1Zs were paid in part (or all) using FMF. However, the U.S. froze future payments, I don't know what it can do to retroactively suspend, that would just be punitive and a genuine sign of collapsing US-Pakistan defence ties (like the 1990s). However, the US DoD and DoS have been forthright about maintaining ties. The fact that the DoD is not worried about supply line closures is a clear sign that they're engaged with Pakistan. Finally, while political sides in Pakistan and the US are fuming, the bureaucrats and armed forces are trying to manage things.

The transfer of these birds, FMF and CSF is contingent on the DoD certifying Pakistan's work, so it's his word against Trump's fuming. It seems the DoD wants to sign-off, but he has to deal with Trump basically dismissing any real gains with a selfish tweet. If it's apparent that Trump is an unstable individual, then the DoD can bide its time and try to link Pakistan up via 3rd parties (e.g. Turkey/T129) to achieve strategic aims until Trump is out. Remember, in Carter's time the US had offered to link Pakistan up to financing sources in Europe for the purchase of Mirage 2000s instead of F-16s. If the AH-1Zs are canned then it's a matter of the US helping Turkey increase the loan to $2 bn so that Pakistan can get 45 T129 instead of 30. Remember, this is about aid money, not embargoes - so the LHTEC engines should, technically, be a go.

But you get more T129 for the price of 15xAH?

 

[Bilal Khan (Quwa)]

Someone is happy at TAI...

IMO this is all on Trump. The US has maintained a foreign policy of steering Pakistan to focus on COIN/CT since Obama and the trend had been to gradually focus all military aid to Pakistan on that basis. But with his penchant to tweet whatever's on his mind, Trump has made it difficult for the DoD and DoS to execute that task at the original pace. Moreover, as much as it won't admit it publicly, the U.S. knows the situation in Afghanistan has its inherent issues (unrelated to Pakistan) and no amount of blaming Pakistan will change them. It's one thing to jab Pakistan for "do more" but wire the aid, but then to cut the aid, condemn Pakistan and then put Pakistan under pressure to close the supply lines if not more (e.g. PTI wants the US presence in Pakistan curtailed), this is on Trump.

But you get more T129 for the price of 15xAH?

Upfront it's around the same, but the TAI offset package does reduce the net-foreign-currency outflow.

 

[fatman17]

Worst case scenario these Zulus will be requisitioned back by thr USMC as they are of fairly similar configuration.

However, it would seem that with backdoor channels these aircraft will arrive but only the number ordered and their status will be toys at best in the east and overkill in the internal front.

Very optimistic view

 

[SQ8]

Very optimistic view

Probably, with the rest of the nation crumbling away: 12 semi useful helicopters are the least of problems.

 

[Bilal Khan 777]

Did Pakistan pay commercial price or reduced price packaged under DoD FMS?
@Bilal Khan (Quwa) @Bilal Khan 777 @fatman17 @Windjammer @Zarvan
Thank you, folks.

this is a FMS case.

There are no embargoes in place. I guess the issue would be the possibility that the AH-1Zs were paid in part (or all) using FMF. However, the U.S. froze future payments, I don't know what it can do to retroactively suspend, that would just be punitive and a genuine sign of collapsing US-Pakistan defence ties (like the 1990s). However, the US DoD and DoS have been forthright about maintaining ties. The fact that the DoD is not worried about supply line closures is a clear sign that they're engaged with Pakistan. Finally, while political sides in Pakistan and the US are fuming, the bureaucrats and armed forces are trying to manage things.

The transfer of these birds, FMF and CSF is contingent on the DoD certifying Pakistan's work, so it's his word against Trump's fuming. It seems the DoD wants to sign-off, but he has to deal with Trump basically dismissing any real gains with a selfish tweet. If it's apparent that Trump is an unstable individual, then the DoD can bide its time and try to link Pakistan up via 3rd parties (e.g. Turkey/T129) to achieve strategic aims until Trump is out. Remember, in Carter's time the US had offered to link Pakistan up to financing sources in Europe for the purchase of Mirage 2000s instead of F-16s. If the AH-1Zs are canned then it's a matter of the US helping Turkey increase the loan to $2 bn so that Pakistan can get 45 T129 instead of 30. Remember, this is about aid money, not embargoes - so the LHTEC engines should, technically, be a go.

Weapons are a tool of policy and relationship. They will always be used to enforce the dilly dally.

 

[Ahmet Pasha]

I had thought we were gonna assemble T129s in PAC???

IMO this is all on Trump. The US has maintained a foreign policy of steering Pakistan to focus on COIN/CT since Obama and the trend had been to gradually focus all military aid to Pakistan on that basis. But with his penchant to tweet whatever's on his mind, Trump has made it difficult for the DoD and DoS to execute that task at the original pace. Moreover, as much as it won't admit it publicly, the U.S. knows the situation in Afghanistan has its inherent issues (unrelated to Pakistan) and no amount of blaming Pakistan will change them. It's one thing to jab Pakistan for "do more" but wire the aid, but then to cut the aid, condemn Pakistan and then put Pakistan under pressure to close the supply lines if not more (e.g. PTI wants the US presence in Pakistan curtailed), this is on Trump.


Upfront it's around the same, but the TAI offset package does reduce the net-foreign-currency outflow.