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Agreement Done Myanmar will buy JF-17... Dunya news

I want to know if China reserves the legal right to sell the aircraft if Pakistan does not want to.

No such information is available in Public Domain, but commonsense dictates that in PARTNERSHIP both partners carry out their business with 'mutual understanding', here I would like to remind one more think that we are equal partners in financial term but not in technological terms JF-17 is our requirement but not of China.
 
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Thank you. I truly appreciate it. Someone just a few months ago, asked me something on a political thread, where I was opposing the violent sit ins and all. He said, you know we hate your posts and you are interfering with our posts and politics, why don't you quit writing. My response was, if ONE person becomes positive (in your case, you and whoever else), and understands the positive attitude brings success and negative people, politics are not needed for Pakistan, my work here is done and my time is well spent. I think you've made me realized that I did do something good.
That Culprit is right infornt of you Sir 8-) and I repent for my Bogymen analysis and fatwas..:( against a living legend. hope you'll bestow me a pardon

It is time for Pakistan and Pakistanis to let go of what they've been taught over the decades, "intolerant", if you don't agree with someone, he or she doesn't have a real mandate, murders and killings happen on disagreements, (MQM as one example and Taliban another one, both have killed thousands of people), political instability on disagreements means attacks on the Parliament, bad mouthing political opponents, attacking public welfare places, getting innocents killed, sit ins and all that result in billions of loss over a few days. ALL THESE need to be a part of black history.
Actually at that time i was following CATALYST approach of ..substance that speed up chemical reaction but wont take part in it, so i was of the view Pressure party will exert Ruling party to have a peek inside in your affairs of Government esp Bureaucrats doings

The economic activity and clock has started to run, its time for Pakistanis to change their future like the Indians did. Opportunity is RIGHT around the corner, only 3 years away. Its time to become tolerant and positive, anyone with negativity about "rigging", "corruption", and other conspiracy theories, without proof, need not to be paid attention to. Heads down, hard work as the opportunity comes and everyone's goal should be, to turn Pakistan into the top 20 economies in the next decade. Its doable, just requires, peace, stability, tolerance and positive worth ethic!
Thats now i understood after a long chase :sick: its time to Head down go to sleep SO that you get up fresh Early in the Morning :enjoy:
 
Katra Katra samandar banata hai.

Azerbaijan, Nigeria, Myanmar and Argentina are very keen on buying the Aircraft.

Securing a total order of 4 squadrons would be a significant boost for Pakistan's aviation industry.
You can add, Egypt, Algeria, Morocco, Sudan, Iraq and KSA as credible future buyers, they have all shown credible interest in the JF-17 platform and most probably they are just waiting on when and how to incorporate it into their air forces. The north African countries might share a line of production, let's say objectively, between Egypt, KSA and Morocco. Bock 2 is most likely to be the one they will produce their own version of. Most other countries will buy a customized FC-1.

The article quotes a Burmese newspaper. It is clear they want to make it under license



Flanker is a NATO codename
JF-17 and FC-1 are lot different. they are not code names
They are synonymous. JF-17 is the Pakistani version, it won't be exported as such, there will be an export version of it called JF-17 too like the F-16 US vs F-16 for export or Migs or any other fighter plane. If bought from China it will be mostly called the FC-1 also known in the media as JF-17.

shhhh

If this deal doesn't go through (it may however), there will be 10 threads on PDF condemning Myanmar and saying "gov't should cut ties with this gov't which is promoting genocide."

It is true that in business, ethics do not matter. Give weapons to Iraq, let them fight Iran, none of US business. But I'd like to hear a story where Muhammad (PBUH) gave swords and men to others so they could fight and hence Medina could profit from it.

Qu'ran tells us to save another human, but when business comes in, oh boy, even interest is permissible. Actually nearly everything is "permissible."

What fellow PDF member are saying is true, but being an Islamic Republic, are we upholding business ethics or humane/religious ethics? If yesterday Syria was gassing its citizens, or some christian African country was exterminating entire muslim population from within its borders, would it be a good idea for Pakistan to sell them jets, weapons or other stuff?


Why are we to complain why US funds "freedom fighters" (who in turn cause destabilization in muslim world, per popular view here) over the world (which is "business") if we're on path to follow same guidelines.


Anyway, this deal should go through if Pakistan can get guarantees from the gov't that it will help stop the genocide. Or it can ensure that such weapons will not be used to target innocent civilians (not just muslms).


Finally, we shouldn't pray for safety of any muslim outside of Pakistan (per views expressed here) or Myanmar if we are going to arm their gov't which in turn doesn't care of muslims being massacred.

Edit: Actually, why do we condemn Hindu aggression or any non-muslim aggression towards muslim minorities? If what Myanmar does is their business, then what India does is her business. We should not complain why US is making deals with a hindu nationalist whose gov't commited muslim genocide or other extremist policies pursued by his gov't. Or why the US makes deals with Israel?


And this, my friends, is the hypocrisy.

Actually this is a bit out of context. Why blame Pakistan when it is China who is selling them to Burma?
Pakistan will benefit and might even help the Burmese Muslim refugees with some of that benefit.
 
Imran Khan has zero managerial experience. he is a disaster in waiting. feel free to make him your PM to find out.

managing a cricket team of 15 professionals is one thing. Dealing with a country of 180 million is another
.

There is some serious advise right here in the two lines above!! So serious that it can alter the future of a country of 200 people called Pakistan. An egoistic guy, without managerial skills or proper business ethic can only grow trees in his backyard, not the economy and certainly not a country's economy plagued with SO many problems.

The people that are at work, want peace, stability and want to grow Pakistan. NO matter what happens in Pakistan, they still suggest peace with India and trade with India. This is that work ethic and sense that needs to come in, not saying that Pakistan needs to surrender to India, but at the same time, Pakistan needs to grow its economy and a peaceful Pakistan and India will only bring more peace and stability to the region. Other high intensity, conflict driven, negative leaders can act like a poison to a growing country which has been through so much, and finally opportunity has been created for it.
 
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There is some serious advise right here in the two lines above!! So serious that it can alter the future of a country of 200 people called Pakistan. A egoistic guy, without managerial skills or proper business ethic can only grow trees in his backyard, not the economy and certainly not a country's economy plagued with SO many problems.

The people that are at work, want peace, stability and want to grow Pakistan. NO matter what happens in Pakistan, they still suggest peace with India and trade with India. This is that work ethic and sense that needs to come in, not saying that Pakistan needs to surrender to India, but at the same time, Pakistan needs to grow its economy and a peaceful Pakistan and India will only bring more peace and stability to the region. Other high intensity, conflict driven, negative leaders can act like a poison to a growing country which has been through so much, and finally opportunity has been created for it.

Hi,

A leader must be honest in his dealing----but he must also be an opportunist working for the country.

Mr Khan biggest blunder was justifying the killing by the terrorists ' revenge killings '---. Next he is against military in fata---also against building cantonments in fata and Baluchistan---not knowing that cantonments bring business opportunity for civilians.

All major cities of the world were one time a Fort / military base----. Now he would be good for interior ministry job---law and order etc but not a prime minister.
 
There is some serious advise right here in the two lines above!! So serious that it can alter the future of a country of 200 people called Pakistan. An egoistic guy, without managerial skills or proper business ethic can only grow trees in his backyard, not the economy and certainly not a country's economy plagued with SO many problems.

The people that are at work, want peace, stability and want to grow Pakistan. NO matter what happens in Pakistan, they still suggest peace with India and trade with India. This is that work ethic and sense that needs to come in, not saying that Pakistan needs to surrender to India, but at the same time, Pakistan needs to grow its economy and a peaceful Pakistan and India will only bring more peace and stability to the region. Other high intensity, conflict driven, negative leaders can act like a poison to a growing country which has been through so much, and finally opportunity has been created for it.

you have choices dealing with India. it is for pakistanis to make. i won't make any suggestions
 
A news item from the last year which might have some indication of the future direction of PAF & Myanmar Airforce cooperation.

PAF, Myanmar air force to enhance co-op
August 28, 2014

ISLAMABAD - Air Chief Marshal Tahir Rafique Butt on Wednesday visited the headquarters of Myanmar Defence Services.

The air chief is visiting Myanmar on the official invitation of Myanmar Air Force. He called on Commander-in-Chief Defence Services of Myanmar, Senior General Min Aung Hlaing. The air chief also called on the Commander-in-Chief (Air) General Khin Aung Myint in his office. According to PAF, during the meetings with the senior military leadership, matters pertaining to mutual professional interest came under discussion. They also expressed satisfaction over the current level of cooperation between the two air forces and agreed to explore new avenues to enhance bilateral professional cooperation.

Later on, Air Chief Marshal Tahir Rafique Butt visited an operational air base of Myanmar Air Force. He was given a comprehensive briefing about the working of the base. The air chief visited various operational and maintenance facilities and appreciated their level of professionalism.

On his arrival, he was presented with the Guard of Honour by a smartly turned out contingent. He was also introduced to the principal staff officers of Myanmar Air Force.

========================

pic of that visit from another forum
PAF chief visit of Myanmar.jpg


& according to the rumors in that forum 34 JF-17 would be delivered to Myanmar within 3 years.
 
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A news item from the last year which might have some indication of the future direction of PAF & Myanmar Airforce cooperation.

PAF, Myanmar air force to enhance co-op
August 28, 2014

ISLAMABAD - Air Chief Marshal Tahir Rafique Butt on Wednesday visited the headquarters of Myanmar Defence Services.

The air chief is visiting Myanmar on the official invitation of Myanmar Air Force. He called on Commander-in-Chief Defence Services of Myanmar, Senior General Min Aung Hlaing. The air chief also called on the Commander-in-Chief (Air) General Khin Aung Myint in his office. According to PAF, during the meetings with the senior military leadership, matters pertaining to mutual professional interest came under discussion. They also expressed satisfaction over the current level of cooperation between the two air forces and agreed to explore new avenues to enhance bilateral professional cooperation.

Later on, Air Chief Marshal Tahir Rafique Butt visited an operational air base of Myanmar Air Force. He was given a comprehensive briefing about the working of the base. The air chief visited various operational and maintenance facilities and appreciated their level of professionalism.

On his arrival, he was presented with the Guard of Honour by a smartly turned out contingent. He was also introduced to the principal staff officers of Myanmar Air Force.

========================

pic of that visit from another forum
View attachment 205133

& according to the rumors in that forum 34 JF-17 would be delivered to Myanmar within 3 years.
:pakistan:
 
you have choices dealing with India. it is for pakistanis to make. i won't make any suggestions

That's not true. I agree with the overall peace approach, but if India is going to fund Talibans and Baluchistani terrorists.....then all bets are off. you can't eff with a country's national security and expect it to sit around take the beating. In this case, the arch rivals.

Also, take a look at the historical context, a few months ago, there were violations by the Indian troops which killed a few Pakistani soldiers. The Pakistani PM wants to go create peace with India, at times, against the will of its own military (which is a good steps). But after so many good gestures, what did India return? More violations, aggressive behavior and dead soldiers. What happened then? The Pakistani PM backed off of the "peace talks", both him and the Army Chief issued statements that "we'll now talk in the language the Indians understand".......result was Washington putting a stick up some rears and brought them to negotiate again or create ceasefire as the Washington knew where Pak Army was headed and it would create a conflict. Result in Modi calling NS and wishing him good luck on the cricket match.

So you can always have "choices" when the Indian side wants to play too. I can put my money on it, out of the violent, Hindu extremist agenda and Modi's push to present India as a world power, which in reality its not, he'll get India in trouble. You should never spend beyond your ability, you should also not try to stick a finger up someone's rear if you don't have the guts to tolerate a full hand in your rear. Simple pain tolerance and human psychiatry.

Back to peace talks, I think at this point, what would make sense, is a no war pact, an economic pact and a no terrorist funding treaty across both the nations. That would be a good start and an agreement will give both sides confidence. When verbal diarrhea and commitments are loosely used, you should do a contract to create confidence between two parties.
 


Myanmar’s Fight With Rebels Creates Refugees and Ill Will With China

By JANE PERLEZMARCH 21, 2015

BEIJING — When rumors spread around the sugar-cane farms in northern Myanmar that the army was advancing, Li Jiapeng and his family packed some clothes, grabbed some cash and joined a long line of people fleeing in cars and on foot. Everyone was heading for safety on the other side of the border in China, just six miles away.

The next day, he could hear the sounds of battle. “We came to the Chinese side early in the morning, and we began to hear gunshots that afternoon from Laogai, our hometown,” Mr. Li, 23, a university student whose family grows walnuts, tea and sugar cane, said by phone from Yunnan Province in southern China.

In the last six weeks, the Myanmar Army has been fighting rebels of the Kokang, a Chinese ethnic group that has lived in the mountains of northern Myanmar for more than 400 years, and keeps strong linguistic, education and trading ties to China.

Myanmar has been afflicted with fighting between its various ethnic groups and the army for decades, but the current battle, fueled by rebels armed with weapons bought with the proceeds of a flourishing drug trade, is potentially more serious because it touches on the country’s sensitive relationship with China.

Lt. Gen. Mya Tun Oo, the head of Myanmar’s military intelligence, said last month that “well-trained Chinese soldiers” were fighting alongside the Kokang guerrillas, known as the Myanmar Nationalities Democratic Alliance Army, who are led by an octogenarian, Peng Jiasheng. General Mya Tun Oo tried to soften his accusation by saying the local Chinese authorities, rather than the central government, were responsible for the deployment of the Chinese soldiers. But still, his statement infuriated China, which strongly denied the charge and demanded that senior Myanmar officials come to Beijing for talks.

Also of concern to China is the Myanmar military’s tactic of stoking widespread anti-Chinese sentiment in Myanmar. China, the biggest foreign investor in Myanmar, has major oil and gas interests there, and is trying to consolidate its economic position amid intense rivalry with the United States. During the rule of the junta, China was an unflinching supporter of the military, and the resentment, now based on China’s power and wealth, still permeates society.

Myanmar has called the war against the guerrillas a righteous cause against an “external threat,” a clear reference to China. The army has publicized the fact that its forces have suffered casualties at the hands of the guerrillas and has welcomed donations from ordinary citizens to pay the families of soldiers killed in the fighting.

The Myanmar military has also used Facebook accounts in a campaign to build opposition to Mr. Peng by linking him to China. Until 1989, the now-defunct Communist Party of Burma, an offshoot of the Chinese Communist Party, provided Mr. Peng his main support. Now, the Kokang are fighting back to protect mineral and forestry resources and the profitable drug trade that has kept them alive and somewhat autonomous from the center.
Continue reading the main story

The nationalist appeal by the Myanmar military has a specific political purpose. It appears intended to gain support from the population before important national elections at the end of 2015, when the dominant political party aligned with the military will go head-to-head with the opposition party led by the democracy icon Daw Aung San Suu Kyi.

Another aggravating factor for China is the presence of as many as 60,000 Kokang refugees in Yunnan Province, particularly around the town of Nansan.

China has always declined assistance from the United Nations refugee agency on the grounds it does not want outside interference in its internal affairs. Beijing has hewed to that policy with the Kokang, and has refused to allow United Nations refugee officials to travel to see the conditions of the refugees in Nansan, United Nations officials said.

In the days after the fighting started on Feb. 9, Nansan was filled with cars with Myanmar license plates, trucks packed with people cradling a few belongings, and even cattle that farmers brought over the porous border, refugees reached by phone said.

The local government has provided free food, blankets, and running water, said Lin Sen, a businessman in Nansan, who has been raising money for the newcomers. There are several government centers for the refugees, and many have squeezed into small hotels or rented houses, or are staying with relatives, he said.

“The refugees have rice, and three kinds of dishes for each meal,” he said. “It’s not that delicious, but good enough for refugees.”

By the middle of this month, the war had spilled into Chinese territory. Five Chinese workers were killed in a sugar-cane field near the city of Lincang by a bomb from a Myanmar Air Force jet. The aircraft was apparently targeting rebels in the Myanmar mountains but misfired, the Chinese news media reported.

In an unusually strong statement, Prime Minister Li Keqiang said China had delivered “stern” warnings to Myanmar. To reassure Chinese citizens that the government was protecting the border, Foreign Minister Wang Yi, who rarely travels inside China, visited Yunnan Province last week to consult with the authorities there.

China has also sent aircraft to patrol the border, and People’s Liberation Army forces equipped with surface-to-air missile systems and radar have been sent too, according to Global Times, a state-run newspaper.

“Since the Chinese military has stepped up its border presence, there is now a real possibility of direct military engagement between the People’s Liberation Army and the Myanmar military,” according to an assessment last week by Stratfor Global Intelligence.

Between bursts of fighting, some Kokang refugees have ventured back to their homes to rescue relatives left behind or to check on their property. Yang Jiacai, 25, a sugar-cane farmer, said that a week after the fighting started, he drove back to Laogai.

The bodies of nine Kokang lay on the outskirts of the town, he said. “I saw people lying on the side of the road,” he said in a telephone interview after returning to Nansan. “I was wondering why they were sleeping there. But when I got closer I realized they had been shot dead. I remember a woman in her 50s, face upward, eyes open. Their luggage — rice bags stuffed with clothes and food — was scattered on the road.”

Mr. Yang said he believed that Myanmar government forces had shot them.

A businessmen who gave his name only as Mr. Zhou said he drove back to Laogai a few days ago to inspect his hotel and three video-game parlors.

“The town was empty,” he said. “No one is on the street. I saw some pickup trucks filled with TVs, electric fans and refrigerators for sale.” A house that had been burned down was still smoldering, he said. But he said his hotel was still intact, and he had hired two guards to protect it.

Others were not so lucky. When Mr. Li, the 23-year-old student, left last month, the family freed several hundred chickens and more than a dozen pigs from their pens so the animals could find food.

His extended family of 20 is now renting a small house, and when he went home several weeks ago, all his animals had disappeared. Myanmar soldiers had taken them, he said. “We have no income, we have lost our walnut trees, our tea trees and everything we grew and raised.”

Wai Moe contributed reporting from Yangon, Myanmar. Yufan Huang contributed research from Beijing.

That's not true. I agree with the overall peace approach, but if India is going to fund Talibans and Baluchistani terrorists.....then all bets are off. you can't eff with a country's national security and expect it to sit around take the beating. In this case, the arch rivals.

Also, take a look at the historical context, a few months ago, there were violations by the Indian troops which killed a few Pakistani soldiers. The Pakistani PM wants to go create peace with India, at times, against the will of its own military (which is a good steps). But after so many good gestures, what did India return? More violations, aggressive behavior and dead soldiers. What happened then? The Pakistani PM backed off of the "peace talks", both him and the Army Chief issued statements that "we'll now talk in the language the Indians understand".......result was Washington putting a stick up some rears and brought them to negotiate again or create ceasefire as the Washington knew where Pak Army was headed and it would create a conflict. Result in Modi calling NS and wishing him good luck on the cricket match.

So you can always have "choices" when the Indian side wants to play too. I can put my money on it, out of the violent, Hindu extremist agenda and Modi's push to present India as a world power, which in reality its not, he'll get India in trouble. You should never spend beyond your ability, you should also not try to stick a finger up someone's rear if you don't have the guts to tolerate a full hand in your rear. Simple pain tolerance and human psychiatry.

Back to peace talks, I think at this point, what would make sense, is a no war pact, an economic pact and a no terrorist funding treaty across both the nations. That would be a good start and an agreement will give both sides confidence. When verbal diarrhea and commitments are loosely used, you should do a contract to create confidence between two parties.

India does not share a Western border with Pakistan. You need to take it up with your Western neighbors.

NS was pretty much forced to halt overtures to India after the political unrest by the PTI/PAT. No brownie points for guessing who backed the PAT/PTI.

India becoming a world power and a violent Hindu extremist agenda are mutually exclusive. India's emphasis is on economic growth. It has been for the past 20 years and will continue for the next 20 years.
 
Let's make some money the biggest Ummah of All is our stomach and we sure are hungary at the moment.
 
India does not share a Western border with Pakistan. You need to take it up with your Western neighbors.

NS was pretty much forced to halt overtures to India after the political unrest by the PTI/PAT
.

India becoming a world power and a violent Hindu extremist agenda are mutually exclusive. India's emphasis is on economic growth. It has been for the past 20 years and will continue for the next 20 years.

You won't change or get mature. To support terrorism, one doesn't need to share a "border" with anyone. You do share 50 "cultural centers" in empty mountains around Afghanistan, on the border where Baluchistan and KPK are super easy access, within some miles.
These are areas where less than 1% people even care to know India is a country close by. These "cultural centers" fund and train people to go into Pakistan all the way to Baluchistan. So learn to call terrorism when the other party lose people to your terrorists too. Its not a one way street where you chose which terrorists you hate, and they are bad, and the ones you support and like (including Hindu terrorists inside India, killing Christians and Muslims), those you chose to ignore conveniently and never call them terrorists.

NS wasn't forced for anything. You can bullsheet all day but the truth is, NS went against his own military's advise and tried to setup some peace with you. You guys, on the other hand, high on nationalism and super India's power (that's not there to a degree in which you believe in insanely), shitted all over NS's good wills. At the end, NS had to hear from his military that "we told you so"!!

India becoming a world power isn't exclusive to a violent Hindu extremist organization. How could you even dream for a seat on the UN's permanent council when inside your OWN country, your own government sponsors terrorism against its minorities.

Ask your PM, how many hundreds of Christians and Muslims, his PEEPS killed and he supported those, kept all the law enforcement agencies on the side step allowing the nationalists to rule the area and murder as many as they wanted to from any minority group they wanted to !!!

The world isn't stupid, from the Pope, to the European Union's heads to the President of the US, EVERYONE has told you to stop murdering your own minorities, in the name of Hinduism / religion!! But here, you'll paint a colorful picture that you guys usually present to the West, as to how colorful life is in India, when your minorities sleep in utter fear every night, not knowing if they'll wake up tomorrow or be killed overnight by the Hindu extremists.
 
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