Agartala Conspiracy confession, what does it mean for our history

[anilindia]

A simple question to @kalu_miah ..
Are u happy with Agartala Conspiracy if it resulted in Bangladesh independence...

 

[Md Akmal]

A simple question to @kalu_miah ..
Are u happy with Agartala Conspiracy if it resulted in Bangladesh independence...

@ It is not the question who is happy and who is not. It is the question of historical truth. Once it is clear then everything will be crystal clear.

 

[jaibi]

Although it would threaten to get things off topic but I am quite tempted to reply here.

My single penny says that even if we apologise nothing would come out of it. Anti-Pakistanism is what AL thrives on, its their polity. As long as they keep coming to power they'll keep coming up with some anti-Pakistani reason & prevent at all cost any attempt to forge strong friendly & brotherly BD-Pakistan relations. BNP's polity however appears to be exact opposite. What is surprising is that Mujib did not appear as hostile to Pakistan post BD separation as Hasina does. But what do you expect of a popular leader & a popular puppet?

On the other hand, I don't know if our BD brothers know or not, there is a speech by ZA Bhutto post BD separation saying (paraphrasing) that they (Bangalis) are our brothers and we must accept their independence. Those who don't agree are children of pigs & can go to hell. Subsequently the first elected parliament accepted BD as a separate country in a constitutional amendment. Every state is an egoistic entity & for Pakistan this measure was a huge one that put darts right at the heart of its ego. It was a tacit apology. Asking for anything more is really pushing it.

Agreed. The basic premise behind the apology is to blame everything solely on Pakistan which has been the narrative of India and some political entities in Bangladesh. There needs to be a widening of prespective, yes, Pakistanis were no angels but the whole episode was the outcome of an historical process. We should be sorry for the lives lost or damaged (Pakistani/Indian/Bangladeshi). Not as a political entity for that bears fruit to a political agenda and no spirit of cooperation.

That is a good spirit, all of us should work for a better future.

We are revisiting history because some people in our country still do not know real picture and track record of this party called AL and their history of cooperation with the intelligence agency of a neighbor country.



If Chittagong natives plan a secret armed rebellion with India's help to secede from Bangladesh, then it should be ok in your opinion?

History is not a collection of facts but an interpretation of it. History would keep on evolving expressing the dilemas of one era or another yet it is up to us to progress not because of it but despite it.

 

[kalu_miah]

Here is your proof.

On the above quote you clearly try to justify the action of Pakistani army's action in 1971.

That is your opinion and you are entitled to it. I would never try to justify Pakistan Army's actions and atrocities. My post was about Agartala case and how it fit with India's overall plan.

 

[kalu_miah]

A simple question to @kalu_miah ..
Are u happy with Agartala Conspiracy if it resulted in Bangladesh independence...

Let me put it this way, I would be happier if 1947 partition did not happen, I do not like small states, secession and partitions, specially if it is not in the long term geopolitical interest of the people. Once Radcliffe borders were drawn, separation of the two wings was only a matter of time. Lord Mountbatten gave it 25 years and 1971 March 26 was 24 years and 7 months after 1947 Independence.

If it was up to me, I would like to have seen a separation of two wings of Pakistan in an amicable divorce, not in a bitter war where India meddled and engineered the separation for its own geopolitical interest using its agents and "useful idiot" and a lot of people lost their lives, as a result.

And I am not sure how we can call it independence in 1971. We gained our independence from British colonial rulers in 1947. Did West Pakistan become our colonial ruler some where along the line betweeen 1947 and 1971? I know there was military rule and both wings were under military rule and this military was West Pakistan dominated. But democracy would have flourished eventually. So secession and separation are more dignified expressions in my opinion. Independence implies that West Pakistan somehow was our colonial ruler.

For those of you who are not familiar with the term "useful idiot":

Useful idiot - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

In political jargon, useful idiot is a pejorative term for people perceived as propagandists for a cause whose goals they do not understand, and who are used cynically by the leaders of the cause.
The term has been used to refer to Soviet sympathizers in Western countries. The implication was that, although the people in question naïvely thought of themselves as an ally of the Soviet Union, they were actually held in contempt and were being cynically used. The use of the term in political discourse has since been extended to other propagandists, especially those who are seen to unwittingly support a malignant cause which they naïvely believe to be a force for good.[1]
Despite often being attributed to Lenin,[2][3][4] in 1987, Grant Harris, senior reference librarian at the Library of Congress, declared that "We have not been able to identify this phrase among [Lenin's] published works."[5][6]
A New York Times article from 1948, on contemporary Italian politics, documented usage of the term in an article from the social-democratic Italian paper L'Umanita.[7] The French equivalent, "idiots utiles", was used in a newspaper article title as early as 1946.[8]
An earlier usage (1947) of a similar term, useful innocents, appears in Austrian-American economist Ludwig von Mises' "Planned Chaos". Von Mises claims the term was used by communists for liberals that von Mises describes as "confused and misguided sympathizers".[9] The term useful innocents also appears in a Readers Digest article (1946) titled "Yugoslavia's Tragic Lesson to the World", an excerpt from a, at the time, forthcoming book (no title printed) authored by Bogdan Raditsa (Bogdan Radica), a "high ranking official of the Yugoslav Government". Raditsa says: "In the Serbo-Croat language the communists have a phrase for true democrats who consent to collaborate with them for 'democracy.' It is Koristne Budale, or Useful Innocents."[10] Although Raditsa translates the phrase as "Useful Innocents", the word budala (plural: budale) actually translates as "fool" and synonyms thereof.
A 2010 BBC radio documentary titled Useful Idiots listed among "useful idiots" of Joseph Stalin several prominent British writers including H. G. Wells and Doris Lessing, the Irish writer George Bernard Shaw, the American journalist Walter Duranty, Bono and the singer Paul Robeson.[11]

 

[Moander]

That is your opinion and you are entitled to it. I would never try to justify Pakistan Army's actions and atrocities. My post was about Agartala case and how it fit with India's overall plan.

You are also entitled to your opinion. But your attempt to expose India's overall plan is unintentionally justifying Pakistan Army's actions in 1971. May be you are blinded by hatred towards Awami & India that's why you don't see it. I don't have anything against you but what you are doing like nizer nak kata aracjoner jatra vongo cora.

 

[anilindia]

Let me put it this way, I would be happier if 1947 partition did not happen, I do not like small states, secession and partitions, specially if it is not in the long term geopolitical interest of the people. Once Radcliffe borders were drawn, separation of the two wings was only a matter of time. Lord Mountbatten gave it 25 years and 1971 March 26 was 24 years and 7 months after 1947 Independence.

If it was up to me, I would like to have seen a separation of two wings of Pakistan in an amicable divorce, not in a bitter war where India meddled and engineered the separation for its own geopolitical interest using its agents and "useful idiot" and a lot of people lost their lives, as a result.

And I am not sure how we can call it independence in 1971. We gained our independence from British colonial rulers in 1947. Did West Pakistan become our colonial ruler some where along the line betweeen 1947 and 1971? I know there was military rule and both wings were under military rule and this military was West Pakistan dominated. But democracy would have flourished eventually. So secession and separation are more dignified expressions in my opinion. Independence implies that West Pakistan somehow was our colonial ruler.

West Pakistan was not ready for this amicable divorce. Even they are not ready for PM from east pakistan to run whole pakistan even if he won election.

East pakistan has not got their due even they have more population. Mujib won election but was denied power. West Pakistan was not ready to give power to any non punjabi..

Now its upto you decide whether this is independence or separation.

 

[rubyjackass]

History becomes a victim of propaganda and politics. It is our responsibility as human beings to find the facts and set history straight. Why is it important, because nations, just like people stumble and fall and make mistakes. In order to learn from these mistakes we need to know history as close to the facts on the ground as possible. A nation and people that does not know its own correct history, is bound to make the same mistakes twice.

Wow kalu_miah!! After going through your new world order planning, I can't believe you wrote such a sensible comment.

In my opinion it does not mean jack. Separation was inevitable due to west pakistans misguided sense of superiority and entitlement. It was only a matter of time. Agartola is irrelevant.

But it is important to study the roots of the movement. We should know, understand and teach history so that our next generations will not repeat the mistakes.

I agree that there were enough precursors even without the army action. Which other country would reject a language spoken by more than a half of the population and choose a language which is not local to any of its province as official language?!
The language movements threatened other provinces of Pakistan and even the Indian Union.
Even the man who brought Sindh into Pakistan went against the federation over the language and One Unit issue. It would seem that even other parts of Pakistan were on the trajectory of East Pakistan.

Anyway we have to find out if Mujib was involved in the 'conspiracy', what were his motives? If he was not involved, what were the motives of the people involved? Why were there so many people involved in the 'conspiracy'(If 35 people are involved, why is it amusingly called conspiracy? It should be something like a morcha. Later more than thousand people would be arrested for this plot) without the common people knowing about it? Or was it that common people knew about it. What was the deal with India exactly, it there was one? Why did India not provide help immediately?

There are many such interesting questions and you don't want to know?!

That is a good spirit, all of us should work for a better future.

We are revisiting history because some people in our country still do not know real picture and track record of this party called AL and their history of cooperation with the intelligence agency of a neighbor country.

The question is do Bangladeshis vote for AL just because they are still grateful for independence? Or it is becuase they have better administration and offer more secular politics.

 

[kalu_miah]

You are also entitled to your opinion. But your attempt to expose India's overall plan is unintentionally justifying Pakistan Army's actions in 1971. May be you are blinded by hatred towards Awami & India that's why you don't see it. I don't have anything against you but what you are doing like nizer nak kata aracjoner jatra vongo cora.

I have no intention to justify actions of "Hanadar" army. My only intention is to do justice to history. If that feels uncomfortable and feels like justification for others actions, that is not my problem.

 

[kalu_miah]

Wow kalu_miah!! After going through your new world order planning, I can't believe you wrote such a sensible comment.

But it is important to study the roots of the movement. We should know, understand and teach history so that our next generations will not repeat the mistakes.

I agree that there were enough precursors even without the army action. Which other country would reject a language spoken by more than a half of the population and choose a language which is not local to any of its province as official language?!
The language movements threatened other provinces of Pakistan and even the Indian Union.
Even the man who brought Sindh into Pakistan went against the federation over the language and One Unit issue. It would seem that even other parts of Pakistan were on the trajectory of East Pakistan.

Anyway we have to find out if Mujib was involved in the 'conspiracy', what were his motives? If he was not involved, what were the motives of the people involved? Why were there so many people involved in the 'conspiracy'(If 35 people are involved, why is it amusingly called conspiracy? It should be something like a morcha. Later more than thousand people would be arrested for this plot) without the common people knowing about it? Or was it that common people knew about it. What was the deal with India exactly, it there was one? Why did India not provide help immediately?

There are many such interesting questions and you don't want to know?!

The question is do Bangladeshis vote for AL just because they are still grateful for independence? Or it is becuase they have better administration and offer more secular politics.

Thanks for your show of support about historical truth.

AL is ruining India Bangladesh relations. I will tell you the reasons:

- AL uses Indian resources to get to power
- AL uses Hindu vote bank
- AL people like other politicians make money from their position, but the extent is worse than BNP
- AL engage in terrorizing the opposition much more than BNP
- AL puts their people in many layers of admin so they can do vote rigging and come back to power

This leaves majority of Bangladeshi's resentful of AL and their association with India. Eventually I think BNP will bring in Chinese as an ally to defeat AL-India combine, if BNP survives. But lets see how many years it takes for China to become interested in Bangladesh internal politics.

 

[Pakistanisage]

India is Bangladesh's Enemy?? and who says this.... You, Kalu Miah & few PDF members??
We have no issues with Bangladesh except Illegal Immigration cases.

Welcome to Reality, here things are exactly opposite than you & few members dream about.

Oh yes there is this huge Problem of ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION as you so delicately put it. First off, most of the illegal immigration is to Provinces and Districts that should have gone to East Pakistan anyway because Muslims had a majority in that province, but you deviously carved out West Bengal from United Bengal.

And then there is the Problem of those pesky DAMS that you keep building on Bangladeshi Water.

And then again there is a problem of your Border Guards keep shooting and killing innocent Bangladeshi Citizens and stealing their property.

And then of course this Problem of your country wanting to violate their Sovereignty by wanting free access through Bangladesh to reach your other Provinces.

And then again there is this issue of your Government trying to bribe the disgraceful Awami League to get whatever you want and Bangladeshi citizens are not consulted.

And then again there is this problem of your country wanting to bully little Bangladeshis into submission.

Looks like there are plenty of issues and more keep adding to the list.

Talk to an average Bangladeshi and he hates BHARTIS.

 

[neutral_person]

Oh yes there is this huge Problem of ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION as you so delicately put it. First off, most of the illegal immigration is to Provinces and Districts that should have gone to East Pakistan anyway because Muslims had a majority in that province, but you deviously carved out West Bengal from United Bengal.

And then there is the Problem of those pesky DAMS that you keep building on Bangladeshi Water.

And then again there is a problem of your Border Guards keep shooting and killing innocent Bangladeshi Citizens.

And then of course this Problem of your country wanting to violate their Sovereignty by wanting free access through Bangladesh to reach your other Provinces.

And then again there is this issue of your Government trying to bribe the disgraceful Awami League to get whatever you want and Bangladeshi citizens are not consulted.

And then again there is this problem of your country wanting to bully little Bangladeshis into submission.

Looks like there are plenty of issues and more keep adding to the list.

Talk to an average Bangladeshi and he hates BHARTIS.

All of that combined is still not even 1% of what Pak did to BD

 

[Pakistanisage]

All of that combined is still not even 1% of what Pak did to BD

And yet 3 million of our Bangladeshi Brothers live in my hometown KARACHI.

And I for one welcome each and everyone of them.

 

[kalu_miah]

All of that combined is still not even 1% of what Pak did to BD

But that is now more than 40 year old history, we have now minimal relations with Pakistan as it is 1200 miles away and we are dealing with India today and in perpetuity on all three sides of our border.

 

[neutral_person]

But that is now more than 40 year old history, we have now minimal relations with Pakistan as it is 1200 miles away and we are dealing with India today and in perpetuity on all three sides of our border.

Likewise, we also have to deal with issues you create...