After Vote, Pakistan’s Strongest Ally Should Be India

[ares]

Yes i know n now as u have said that let me give u reasons why!

As early as upto 2008 we were the 2nd fastest growing economy in Asia our growth rate was 8% back then that u had achieved in around 2010!!!!

We have rules that every country who invests in Pak can get 100% profit back unlike u n China as they have just 20% rest should be reinvested.

and also in yr country (i maybe wrong) a company can do business up to just 20 years and with in the first 6 months of investment it is bound to replace its staff with indian n use local material to produce their good n also they need to sell those goods in yr market first n left overs can be exported n then u have got another rule that after sometime she has to transfer its tech n know how into India. + u have all those tariff barriers. So the margin of Profit becomes very less in these tough conditions to invest from a revealingly smaller country then india ie if Pak does.

So in this environment investment in 1.2 billion market for us in the hope to pass our testing times is not practical!!!

As early as upto 2008 we were the 2nd fastest growing economy in Asia our growth rate was 8% back then that u had achieved in around 2010!!!!

We in the other-hand had no such tough conditions in our country so after 2008 the War on terror had increased all the investment started running off from pak n we were left high n dry in a very short interval.


That was the problem....

We believe we can achieve economic boom without india like we did in 60s n 2000s.
So here nobody really takes yr saying as ''India will be strongest ally of us'' by just trade n FDI in Pak, well nobody really buys this statement in our Country.

OK time for a lessons in economic history.

One you were never second fastest growing economy in Asia... at least not in last decade. Year on year China was the fastest growing economy followed by India.

Entire 90s and uptill 2002 -2003 your growth rates were as abysmal, as they are now. So what changed, that caused sudden increase in your growth rate...was it the Musharraf factor ?..But Musharraf had been in power since 1999. (btw he was still in power 2007-2008 when your economy nosedived.)

No, it was your entry into WOT..Most Pakistani blame WOT for the marred state of their economy, but they forget about the great boom years, that began as soon as you joined WOT.

So what were economic benefits of WOT?

First and foremost the American sanctions(both Pressler amendments and Nuclear sanctions), which had been there since early 90s, were lifted.

Secondly all most all your foreign debt was either cancelled or rescheduled( courtesy you know who)..lifting a huge load off your budget..the money which now could be invested in your economy.

Thirdly, suddenly your economy was injected with substantial amount of foreign investment and foreign aid.

Musharraf introduced creative accounting techniques into your economy...numbers were fudged and your economy was projected stronger and more resilient than it actually was.

An economic growth bubble was created..which neither had roots in 'substantial exports' nor sustained domestic consumption ..it burst at first signs of distress.

As soon as global economy began do slow down, oil prices sky rocketed, political and security environment in your country deteriorated (consequentially investment dried up) ..your economy tanked.

Situation as of now is ..

1) Foreign investment in Pakistan is negligible.
2) Domestic investors are picking up shop and moving to countries like Bangladesh...rest who remain are cutting their work force by half.
3) Have huge infrastructure bottlenecks..Power outages can go upto 18 hours a day.
4) American aid is there but your WOT losses considerably outweigh them.
5) Political environment is relatively stable but nowhere as stable as it is in military rule. In Pakistan, when ever there is an elected representative ..their is good chance, he will be overthrown the next day.
6) Security environment wrt foreign investment is as unstable as it ever was.

These things will take a long time to dissipate...your medium term growth forecast is b/w 4-5%..from 3% right now.

 

[Umair Nawaz]

OK time for a lessons in economic history.

One you were never second fastest growing economy in Asia... at least not in last decade. Year on year China was the fastest growing economy followed by India.

time for little education.


Here is something i found its of 2005.

Pakistan has become one of Asia's fastest growing economies

Economy of Pakistan - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[Armstrong]

@Armstrong

Politically, speaking. Dominating Pakistani economy by cheap goods and by creating a huge trade imbalance in favour of India,has been the long held unfinished agenda of the Indian policy makers.

Let,them assume that we are stupid and will accept that. While we should work on ending the energy deficit,restarting our industry and creating domestic competetion by encouraging SMEs.


Indian produce should be 'catogarized' and 'restricted' to only those low ticket items we don't produce. India must also be made to pay transit duty for C.Asian market access and for the pipelined they want from us,both IPI and TAPI.

Yaraa India can't dump anything in our market ! The Chinese are far....far better at that & even they couldn't destroy us our economy - Woh tou hamneiii khud Zardari naaam kiii eik Cyanide Capsule khaaa liii thiiii warnaaa you can't imagine the brilliance of our cottage industry & some of the established brands in Pakistan.

In addition to that we also made some seriously foOked decisions like opening a car manufacturing plant in Pakistan without ever building the supporting industries - Eik spark plug bhi tou China se import karnaa partaaa haiii !

Mansha has a very good idea that has worked all over the world - Go the Telecom Industry way with all these white elephants & then see how well everyone from PIA to Sui can perform.

And yes of course charge them & anyone else who uses our land routes - Thats a given !

 

[Trisonics]

@Kaniska

Chinese onion seller to Pakistani buyer.

"hey buy a KG for 20 rupee"

Indian onion seller to Pakistani consumer.

"(Fuk that Chinese) buy my onion for 12 Rupee"

Pakistani onion seller.

"wtf am i supposed to do it costs me 10 rupee per kg to grow"

If it costs 10 Rupees to grow, it make no sense to grow it!
Contrary to your views, its actually very good to have competition since it fosters innovation. Otherwise companies are happy to provide consumers sub standard products. It will also close doors for the incompetent ones.

The one main thing that always drives business is low cost. If trade trumps between India and Pak and, if production costs in Pak is cheaper than in India, the same Indian companies will set up shops in Pak providing numerous jobs.

I do agree..it needs to be slow and gradual.

 

[Umair Nawaz]

Ok that makes sense....so rather that putting reason that cheap Indian product will floor your market, you should mention that due to enemity with India, you do not want to do any bussiness with us...

U have made yrself into this position against us. Who said u to attack us in 71 destroyed us and divided our Nation?
Who said u to invade Siachin in 84 knowingly that it lies within boundary of pak n just a demarcation line was not drawn?

If u ask me
I really dont believe that its because of enemity of India but is because of the advantage u will take from this against us in the times of WAR!!!!!!!!!
We cant afford to depend on u as we have seen u stopping JF-17 deal with France. Asking World Bank not to give us loan to make dams in Azad Kashmir!!!!!
Burring a terrorist as a hero!!!

This attitude my friend is not ideal to have any kind of relations with u.

 

[agamdilawari]

U have made yrself into this position against us. Who said u to attack us in 71 destroyed us and divided our Nation?
Who said u to invade Siachin in 84 knowingly that it lies within boundary of pak n just a demarcation line was not drawn?

Does Operation Gibraltar(1965) rings any bell ? Doesn't Kargil(1999) just after Lahore visit by ABVP reminds u abt somethin ? We have a history drenched in blood my friend. Either it can be corrected slowly and gradually or it can be escalated to a larger level by making more mistakes(irrespective which side takes the initiative in such case). Status Quo suits India at present but doesn't eliminate the trust gap btw our countries one bit.

 

[Joe Shearer]

Do you really think your media don't spew any hatred??? Do that not translate in to indoctrinated masses??? My point is very well stated, when your media even on smaller things starts beating war drums and your politicians follows the suites and influence govt. decisions than how you expect a stronger trade relations? No businessman is idiot to invest under these circumstances but you will not get it as you always see posts with green tag from saffron glasses.

And let's not go per-partition era where again you don't want to see other side of story but believe in universal truth of Nehru & Patel company.

And i am sure, you know very well that MAJ was in congress.

Baffling.

I point out that Pakistanis 'on this thread' are over-reacting, and you retort that our media spews out hatred. Where is the connection?

You think that Indian media sensationalises even small issues, the pols follow (follow suit, I think you meant, rather than following the suites) and influence government decisions, and trade relations are impossible. Do you seriously think that things happen this way?

Then, you tell me, a professional manager now on the thirty-ninth year of his working career, what businessmen will and will not do. Do I need to pull in Mukesh Ambani to tell you that businessmen will go anywhere, do anything if that helps them to make better profits than normal circumstances do?

I will not get it, as I always see posts with green tags through saffron glasses. I? Saffron glasses?? Perhaps this was the unkindest cut of all?

Of course, the sacred history of pre-partition days is not to be mentioned; it is written in The Book and therefore beyond questioning. I suppose it would not help matters to point out that I am not inclined to believe in anything peddled by Nehru or Patel in the past, that my conclusions are my own?

MAJ was in Congress. What a discovery! I am hit by a thunderbolt at the awesomeness of the thing. Do you know what non sequitur means?

 

[ares]

time for little education.


Here is something i found its of 2005.

Pakistan has become one of Asia's fastest growing economies

Economy of Pakistan - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I say what I say because, I am sure of it..and I don't like to repeat my self.

Here are economic growth rates of both Indian and Pakistan from 2000-2010.

India ( 2005) 9.3 %

Pakistan ( 2005) 6.2%



http://www.un.org/en/development/desa/policy/wesp/wesp_archive/2010annex.pdf

China was the only economy faster than India... automatically making India the second fastest economy.

 

[Umair Nawaz]

Does Operation Gibraltar(1965) rings any bell ? Doesn't Kargil(1999) just after Lahore visit by ABVP reminds u abt somethin ? We have a history drenched in blood my friend. Either it can be corrected slowly and gradually or it can be escalated to a larger level by making more mistakes(irrespective which side takes the initiative in such case). Status Quo suits India at present but doesn't eliminate the trust gap btw our countries one bit.

Kid read some history in the other post u were giving me economic lectures.

There is NO PROF of any op. etc etc in 65 its just an excuse by Indian Army to attack us.
And in 99. Well had there been no Siachin there had been to Kargil too!!! As kargil was in pak army tables since 84 siachin saga.

But none of this compromises what u did in 71.

So if Pak thinks that it shouldnt have trade with u because of enemity so we have good reason to believe it.

But still i dont think thats the case.

Let me repeat again.

i dont believe that its because of enemity of India but is because of the advantage u will take from this against us in the times of WAR!!!!!!!!!
We cant afford to depend on u as we have seen u stopping JF-17 deal with France. Asking World Bank not to give us loan to make dams in Azad Kashmir!!!!!
Burring a terrorist as a hero!!!

This attitude my friend is not ideal to have any kind of relations with u.

 

[Kaniska]

U have made yrself into this position against us. Who said u to attack us in 71 destroyed us and divided our Nation?
Who said u to invade Siachin in 84 knowingly that it lies within boundary of pak n just a demarcation line was not drawn?

If u ask me
I really dont believe that its because of enemity of India but is because of the advantage u will take from this against us in the times of WAR!!!!!!!!!
We cant afford to depend on u as we have seen u stopping JF-17 deal with France. Asking World Bank not to give us loan to make dams in Azad Kashmir!!!!!
Burring a terrorist as a hero!!!

This attitude my friend is not ideal to have any kind of relations with u.

Alhough I have enough argument to put it forward,But i respect your feelings and understand your view point.

 

[Kompromat]

@Trisonics

Only 'fair competetion' is good. Our production isn't what it was in 2005. If we open our market to India,under current domestic production capability,given the energy deficit,we'll be signing a death sentence for our industries.

I have full,confidence in Pakistani business ethic and quality. Once our energy crisis is over,our industries grow their spine back,only then it is wise to allow the Indian investment and trade.

Last thing i,want to see is Indian artificial market flooding,to wipe off struggling Pakistani industries and then establish a market control.

Trade with India is good, allowing India the energy and logistical transit is good,as long as it is regulated and domestic industried get a clear priority.

 

[bigzgvr4]

look man india and pakistan will never be ally no matter what even after the kashmir issue is solved they will never sit at the same table. So all this talk is non sense

its like saying that after israel takes over whats left of palestine then israel and palestine should be closest allies

wow

bloomberg is retarded

 

[agamdilawari]

Kid read some history in the other post u were giving me economic lectures.

There is NO PROF of any op. etc etc in 65 its just an excuse by Indian Army to attack us.

So u bunked ur history classes(if correct one is taught) as well along with economics

I guess any senior Pakistani member here will be able to tell u well about Operation Gibraltar unless u already know abt it and still pretend to believe tht nothing like tht ever happened.

 

[Umair Nawaz]

Baffling.

I point out that Pakistanis 'on this thread' are over-reacting, and you retort that our media spews out hatred. Where is the connection?

You think that Indian media sensationalises even small issues, the pols follow (follow suit, I think you meant, rather than following the suites) and influence government decisions, and trade relations are impossible. Do you seriously think that things happen this way?

Then, you tell me, a professional manager now on the thirty-ninth year of his working career, what businessmen will and will not do. Do I need to pull in Mukesh Ambani to tell you that businessmen will go anywhere, do anything if that helps them to make better profits than normal circumstances do?

I will not get it, as I always see posts with green tags through saffron glasses. I? Saffron glasses?? Perhaps this was the unkindest cut of all?

Of course, the sacred history of pre-partition days is not to be mentioned; it is written in The Book and therefore beyond questioning. I suppose it would not help matters to point out that I am not inclined to believe in anything peddled by Nehru or Patel in the past, that my conclusions are my own?

MAJ was in Congress. What a discovery! I am hit by a thunderbolt at the awesomeness of the thing. Do you know what non sequitur means?

MAJ was a congressman up to 1913.

 

[karan21]

@Trisonics

Only 'fair competetion' is good. Our production isn't what it was in 2005. If we open our market to India,under current domestic production capability,given the energy deficit,we'll be signing a death sentence for our industries.

I have full,confidence in Pakistani business ethic and quality. Once our energy crisis is over,our industries grow their spine back,only then it is wise to allow the Indian investment and trade.

Last thing i,want to see is Indian artificial market flooding,to wipe off struggling Pakistani industries and then establish a market control.

Trade with India is good, allowing India the energy and logistical transit is good,as long as it is regulated and domestic industried get a clear priority.

Pakistan has opened up its economy to every country in the world then why not India??
All phones sold in Pakistan are made by Samsung, Nokia etc etc. Do you see any Pakistani company??
Almost all your household stuff is made in China not pakistani companines..

If you guys can buy German made BMWs, Japanese made Toyotas then why not Indian made TATAs and Mahindras.

This industry collapse argument is totally baseless. Please don't give it. It doesn't make sense. Foreign companies are dominating Pakistani market for a long time. But this HATE INDIA felling inside you guys is what keeps you guys from opening up trade barriers.