After Vote, Pakistan’s Strongest Ally Should Be India

[Bang Galore]

Let me burst yr bubble Kiddo.

nice joke maybe u dont know where armies r in siachin.
70% glacier is occupied by Indian Army n 30% is with Pakistan. Hence yr claim of ''indian army sitting on entire glacier as if our soldiers even cant see from their positions is false n bogus claim.

As i said, you keep buying this rubbish & you will soon by mouthing even more inanities. No Pakistani soldier, I repeat, no Pakistani soldier can even see the Siachen glacier itself. The forces are lined up along the Saltoro ridge. Any map(not yours , any other) will show the Saltoro ridge is west of the Siachen glacier. Funny how Pakistanis can still be on the glacier. See drawing:

 

[curioususer]

This is something which is surprising me abt Mr. Joe's posts. As if the Indians dont know that.

Well this sounds like our bureaucracy.

They r like this too.


But u can go to court if they go out of hands n media.
We dont have such leverages here.


The problem is with upper bureaucracy in yr country which is very much influenced by the Americans n its believed that they create hurdles in peace process and negotiations with Pakistan about Kashmir, Siachin, Sir Creek etc etc to please the Americans as its in their interests to Make us fight n indult into our own regional problems then to concentrate on int. issues, Globalization and Prosperity.


Read the interesting post of Mr. Juice from America.

Its post#134

http://www.defence.pk/forums/strate...trongest-ally-should-india-9.html#post4270175

You must think this way because of Anna movement etc, but it is not that simple if I have to take it to court I have to go through egoistic lawyers, media doesn't help everyone they have their own process. I don't know if India's position would be different on those issues even America wasn't influencing it.

 

[Umair Nawaz]

As i said, you keep buying this rubbish & you will soon by mouthing even more inanities. No Pakistani soldier, I repeat, no Pakistani soldier can even see the Siachen glacier itself. The forces are lined up along the Saltoro ridge. Any map(not yours , any other) will show the Saltoro ridge is west of the Siachen glacier. Funny how Pakistanis can still be on the glacier. See drawing:

dont show us yr rubbish indian maps. Who write azad Kashmir as some thing like ***.
Azad Kashmir is the name accepted by UNO.
I know more then u i have lived in the area with my father when he was stationed there.
So check neutral sources, 30% siachin glacier is under control of Pakistan.

 

[Bang Galore]

dont show us yr rubbish indian maps. Who write azad Kashmir as some thing like ***.
Azad Kashmir is the name accepted by UNO.
I know more then u i have lived in the area with my father when he was stationed there.
So check neutral sources, 30% siachin glacier is under control of Pakistan.

Repeating Rubbish will get you nowhere. Where is the map you have.......? Indian maps eh? Show some Pakistani maps showing different facts? Calling something ***, IoK, AK etc doesn't change where the Saltoro ridge is......


Btw, here is something for you to read. From this forum:

India has established control over all of the 70 kilometres (43 mi) long Siachen Glacier and all of its tributary glaciers, as well as the three main passes of the Saltoro Ridge immediately west of the glacier—Sia La, Bilafond La, and Gyong La. Pakistan controls the glacial valleys immediately west of the Saltoro Ridge.

http://www.defence.pk/forums/indian-defence/57491-siachen-glacier.html

 

[Umair Nawaz]

Repeating Rubbish will get you nowhere. Where is the map you have.......? Indian maps eh? Show some Pakistani maps showing different facts? Calling something ***, IoK, AK etc doesn't change where the Saltoro ridge is......


Btw, here is something for you to read. From this forum:



http://www.defence.pk/forums/indian-defence/57491-siachen-glacier.html

i know dude n im not denying this!!!
I said atleast 70% is controlled by u!!! which also has strategically important areas in region too.

So whats the point?
Only 30% is held by us.

 

[Bang Galore]

i know dude n im not denying this!!!
I said atleast 70% is controlled by u!!! which also has strategically important areas in region too.

So whats the point?
Only 30% is held by us.

Point is that regardless of the obfuscation, Pakistani forces are only on the Baltoro glacier, not on Siachen. At all. Indian forces control the heights of the Saltoro ridge, miles away from the actual Siachen glacier. No mount of fudging will change that.

 

[Vinod2070]

The basic minimum is civilized relations with no state or non state terrorists being trained to kill civilians, no active hostilities etc.

From there, there is no limit to the relations.

From cold peace to warm friendly neighboring relations.

We are fine either way.

 

[IceCold]

AND U GUYS TRAIN PEOPLE LIKE KASAB , ARM THEM AND SEND THEM TO INDIA TO KILL INNOCENTS....

ohh shut up you ignorant fool. We neither trained Kasab nor called him a hero or brother, in fact we were happy he met his fate and got what he deserved unlike your kind.

 

[Umair Nawaz]

Point is that regardless of the obfuscation, Pakistani forces are only on the Baltoro glacier, not on Siachen. At all. Indian forces control the heights of the Saltoro ridge, miles away from the actual Siachen glacier. No mount of fudging will change that.

well if this is that is taught in india then yr welcome to live in yr own world.-

 

[Rajaraja Chola]

As Shahid Afridi so eloquently put it (if that is ever possible by him), Indians have small hearts.

Neighbors treat each other in a certain way. Look at Pak-China friendship, learn to emulate.

You get on the good side with us by actually for once being genuine, our generosity has no bounds.

But I don't see that happening anytime soon, your heads are stuck too far up your own a*ses.

China came like a angel? U gave away a part of Kashmir's land to get China's friendship. Such desperate was Pakistan at that time against India.
So y don u give up ur claim, and we will see on generosity claim.
Every time, some terrorist attacks, planned in ur soil, takes away the momentum away. Indian security forces have done a great deal in stopping terrorism in the past decade. And now with the west moving away, the work of our agencies will be more.
Its ur head, which is stuck in ur own A*$es/.

 

[Fuego]

So what happens when we find out thats its your own people doing the blasts and your blaming pakistan?

We'll put them in jail just like we did in Malegaon blast. That blast was blamed on Muslims but our agencies found out the truth and caught the culprits. One was a Hindu religious leader and the other was ex army man.

Obviously you wanna forget that.

So when they start sending the freedom fighters back into kashmir and you start demanding they stop sending freedom fighters and pakistan does.......is that when you will give some credit?
Why dont we see where are now and the conditions you wanted for fulfilled and then move on rather have to go all the way back again to get to this point?

Thats not I was saying.

You claimed that pakistan stopped terrorists in kashmir because India asked her to do. I just said that it was not the case and that pakistan could not continue because of the insurgency in her western border. Was that so hard to understand?

No problem......

A - RESTORATION OF PEACE AND ORDER

1. The Government of Pakistan should undertake to use its best endeavours:

(a) To secure the withdrawal from the State of Jammu and Kashmir of tribesmen and
Pakistani nationals not normally resident therein who have entered the State for the purposes
of fighting, and to prevent any intrusion into the State of such elements and any furnishing of
material aid to those fighting in the State;

The tribesman left decades ago and pakistan national that came to fight have long gone.

(b) To make known to all concerned that the measures indicated in this and the following
paragraphs provide full freedom to all subjects of the State, regardless of creed, caste, or
party, to express their views and to vote on the question of the accession of the State, and
that therefore they should co-operate in the maintenance of peace and order.

. The Government of India should:

(a) When it is established to the satisfaction of the Commission set up in accordance with the
Council's Resolution 39 (1948) that the tribesmen are withdrawing and that arrangements for
the cessation of the fighting have become effective, put into operation in consultation with the
Commission a plan for withdrawing their own forces from Jammu and Kashmir and reducing
them progressively to the minimum strength required for the support of the civil power in the
maintenance of law and order;

(i) That the presence of troops should not afford any intimidation or appearance of
intimidation to the inhabitants of the State;
(ii) That as small a number as possible should be retained in forward areas;

See how it mentions "forward areas" and not "border" indicating that only the area under indian infulence is subject to indian "control of of the civil power in the
maintenance of law and order"
There is no mention of pakistani troops having to move out AJK only mentions pakistani nationals(volunteers) that have to help the kashmiris and the tribesman who have long gone.....its time for you to make your move.


Make the announcement to the worlds press that your willing to hold a referendum on kashmir and pakistan will take the step to make sure it happens.
If you think we will take your word for it and pull out before you make any commitment to the worlds press-UN-international observers then your mistaken.

Did you read the 1(a)?
Does it not say that Pakistan should withdraw all the pakistanis who have entered that area for the purpose of fighting? Does it not?
Now tell me, are your troops American nationals? Ate you so dumb not to apply logic here? Aren't they Pakistanis?

Man...
If you're going to come up with this kind of BS then we cant have a constructive discussion.

Now I ask you again,
When are you going to vacate the Jammu Kashmir so as to enable India to hold the plebiscite?

And if you think that we are going to consider that you have stopped fighting because you want peace with India, and not because of US orders to fight their war in your western border, then no doubt you are a fool.

 

[Bang Galore]

well if this is that is taught in india then yr welcome to live in yr own world.-

It doesn't get taught chap, we have to find out for ourselves. The only one delusional is you. The Pakistani army has been hoodwinking its people by saying that there is a confrontation on Siachen. You are simply not there on the Siachen glacier at all. You remain considerably west of the Siachen glacier on the lower slopes of Saltoro peaks & on the Baltoro glacier. Won't hurt if you look up this information for yourself or read/listen to some of your experts talking. They should be able to tell you where you are.

‘It’s time to resolve Siachen’ says Pakistan army chief Parvez Kayani and immediately voices rise all over India to say, ‘Yes, it would be so nice to finally befriend Pakistan; are we not brothers?’

The good general called for demilitarisation of the Siachen glacier and advocated peaceful coexistence with India. He solemnly stated: ‘The world knows why we are in Siachen,’ inferring that Pakistan troops are positioned on the glacier. However, there is something wrong in the general’s reasoning, for the simple reason that Pakistan has never occupied the glacier, which lies east of the Saltoro Ridge, also in India’s possession. So why should India vacate a place belonging to her and in her possession?
The myths of wild roses and Pakistani presence in Siachen - Analysis - DNA

See same map on a Pakistani site:

Siachen what next? | Pak Tea House



Actual AGPL line:

Red dotted line is AGPL, right of which is Siachen Glacier controlled by Indian army

The Indian army controls all of the 70 kilometres (43 mi) long Siachen Glacier and all of its tributary glaciers, as well as the three main passes of the Saltoro Ridge immediately west of the glacier—Sia La, Bilafond La, and Gyong La—thus holding onto the tactical advantage of high ground

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siachen_Conflict
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Actual_Ground_Position_Line

In the case of Siachen, Pakistan has no presence on the glacier – not even a toehold. Their positions are well west of the Saltoro Ridge. If they are not present on the glacier, the question of Pakistani withdrawal just does not arise. Therefore, demilitarization of Siachen means unilateral withdrawal by India and nothing more.

It is understandable for the Pakistani military to use the term demilitarization as it wants to continue deceiving its countrymen that it is occupying part of the glacier.
Siachen-Withdrawal

If you bother to read up, you will realise why there are almost no maps & articles supporting your position & against my assertion. Your position simply does not hold.

 

[Kloitra]

If you bother to read up, you will realise why there are almost no maps & articles supporting your position & against my assertion. Your position simply does not hold.

Though you would be banging your head on a rock, but please continue, your posts are informative to others...

PS: I went through one of the links you posted, pak tea house.
Siachen is melting 110 meters annually due to activities of Indian army...

If this is what they print, and read, than good luck explaining your POV.

 

[jha]

With Nawaz at the helm of affairs, We can work something out. Forthcoming days will be brighter for India-pakistan relationship..

 

[kamalji]

OK lets just say for once only that Kashmir is India's integral part. OK, agreed. Now the thing is that Pakistan has occupied 1/3rd of your so called Kashmir and what has India done about it for the last 65 years? it really shows who is the boss. Pakistan Zindabaad!

1972 mein islamabad tak kaun aa gaya tha, bhikari bana diya tha tumko. You are doomed it is written even in qu ran. US ke paise par jeene walo, kabhi 65 yrs mein jeete ho humhe, nahi na, and u were spilt in 2 parts by india in 1971. Lagta hai u want to get split again in furthur three parts - punjab, sind and baluchistan.