After Statue of Unity, India to get world’s tallest Shiva Murti

[illusion8]

keep repeat it you might convince yourself someday

To be honest, no one talks about these barbarians or remembers them - it's you guys who keep remembering them, even naming your missiles after them - typical Stockholm syndrome for the lack of better heroes.

 

[PakSarzameen5823]

where people are growing shorter

Please don't ever again regurgitate that garbage claim of Pakistanis being 6 feet tall a few decades ago.

mal-nourishment and lack of food, hygiene and water. Not to mention the eternal begging bowl syndrome.

Hahaha rich coming from the Indian.

To be honest, no one talks about these barbarians or remembers them

People around the world (especially Muslims) admire them, it's only you guys who think lowly of them because you're sore losers. You can't cope with the fact that for hundreds of years, Allah gave us power over you.

typical Stockholm syndrome

How can it be Stockholm syndrome if we're the same people (Muslims), we're descended from them, our culture has been heavily derived from theirs (e.g our language is written in Nastaliq and has many Farsi/Arabic loanwords), and our nation is their successor? The guy who first envisioned Pakistan was himself a Mughal you complete idiot.

 

[illusion8]

Allah gave us power over you.

"us"? tell that to the actual descendants of these barbarians - they will laugh you all the way out of the internet. You should actually try this first hand - go to central asian forums and claim shared ancestry - that should be a spectacle. Just because you converted doesn't make you their 'people'.

How can it be Stockholm syndrome if we're the same people (Muslims), we're descended from them, our culture has been heavily derived from theirs (e.g our language is written in Nastaliq and has many Farsi/Arabic loanwords), and our nation is their successor? The guy who first envisioned Pakistan was himself a Mughal you complete idiot.

That exactly is Stockholm syndrome - making heroes out of your captors and try to emulate them.

The guy who first envisioned Pakistan was himself a Mughal you complete idiot.

Many in India claim themselves to be Khan's. Many think themselves of themselves as arabs and try to emulate them in their outfits and behavior, doesn't really make 'them' it. The last mughal died like a dog in Burma - the rest who claim they are - don't matter.

 

[PakSarzameen5823]

"us"? tell that to the actual descendants of these barbarians - they will laugh you all the way out of the internet. You should actually try this first hand - go to central asian forums and claim shared ancestry - that should be a spectacle. Just because you converted doesn't make you their 'people'.

Other than Afghan nationalists, the rest of them really don't have a problem with us taking them as our heroes, and even many Afghan nationalists have admitted what I'm saying is the truth, because it's undeniable (they usually try to use other justifications for their claim that we can't take them as heroes). Muslims from across the Indian sub-continent (and pretty much anywhere else Islam was accompanied by military conquests) are descended from people who fought alongside these Muslim conquerors, whether they were migrants from foreign lands or indigenous people who acted as mercenaries (the ancestors of most Muslims from Pakistan and north India would be a mix of the two, as proven in numerous genetic studies that people on this forum have previously cited).

And why do you act like all the Muslim figures of the region are foreign? Sikander Butshikan, Jam Nizamuddin, Mir Chakar Rind, Shahbaz Khan, Muhammad Saleh, Ali Rai Anchan, Wazir Khan, Abu Raja As Sindhi, Ahmed Khan Karral and Khushal Khan Khattak are all examples of Muslim figures who came from what is now Pakistan and belong to the same ethnic groups as many Pakistanis. Just because you don't know about them doesn't mean they don't exist.

For goodness sake, even all these Afghan military leaders were Pashtun or at the very least related to them (e.g Ahmed Shah Durrani and Sher Shah Suri were Pashtun, the Sur Pashtuns are descended from the relatives of Muhammad Ghauri, and the Kharoti Pashtuns are descended from the Ghaznavids). Do I need to remind you which country has the world's largest Pashtun population? Or that historically speaking, KPK, FATA and Balochistan have been historically associated with Afghanistan (hence why Afghanistan doesn't accept the Durrand line)?

Anyway, ancestry is irrelevant since we're all descended from Adam (peace be upon him), and more importantly, we're Muslim, just like these conquerors were. We are the same people. They did not fight for their ethnicity/culture, they fought for Islam and Muslims. They are guaranteed Jannah for their righteous deeds. If Allah loves them and tells me they are my people, then that's what I will believe. I don't care what you think, all this rhetoric of yours is just a coping mechanism to deal with the fact that you got constantly humiliated by Muslims for hundreds of years, we see how you guys really feel when hostilities break out (e.g during the Gujarat riots, people would literally scream to Muslims "Get lost Babur's children").

It's very depressing to see Indian Islamaphobes still regurgitate the same nonsense that's been refuted numerous times. You guys give a new meaning to the phrase "head buried in the sand".

That exactly is Stockholm syndrome - making heroes out of your captors and try to emulate them.

That's literally what you guys do, adoring Akbar and calling him one of India's greatest rulers when he came from Umerkot (which is in Pakistan) and would literally make towers out of the skulls of Indian princes. You even call him a shining example of pluralism, which is laughable since he still gave the Muslim clergy a free pass to do what they pleased.

Many in India claim themselves to be Khan's. Many think themselves of themselves as arabs and try to emulate them in their outfits and behavior, doesn't really make 'them' it. The last mughal died like a dog in Burma - the rest who claim they are - don't matter.

No, Khans describe themselves as Pashtuns. FGS how ill-informed are you?

Anyway, he wasn't a long-lost descendant, this man came from Delhi during the reign of the last Mughal Sultan. Google Syed Ahmed Khan. He was the first one to imagine Pakistan (although, technically, Al Biruni expressed similar ideas in his works hundreds of years prior).

 

[Taimoor Khan]

They should erect another thing which is related to Shiva, make it world tallest and they can all worship it.

 

[illusion8]

That's literally what you guys do, adoring Akbar and calling him one of India's greatest rulers

No we don't, we even renamed Akbar road in Delhi to maharana Pratap road recently - we are wiping out the foreign existence slowly.

 

[PakSarzameen5823]

No we don't, we even renamed Akbar road in Delhi to maharana Pratap road recently - we are wiping out the foreign existence slowly.

I understand that many Indians are now getting out of this odd mentality, but that doesn't change the fact that quite a few of you still admire the Muslim rulers of the region and claim them as your own (and then criticise us for doing the same when we actually do have a connection to them).

 

[illusion8]

I understand that many Indians are now getting out of this odd mentality, but that doesn't change the fact that quite a few of you still admire the Muslim rulers of the region and claim them as your own (and then criticise us for doing the same when we actually do have a connection to them).

Indians welcome different things, experience and tend to admire some - may it be any culture, music, food, clothing or anything else...even graves of these muslim rulers for the sake of exploration.

But "admire the muslim rulers" is a bit too far fetched. Except a few lunatics in South who 'admire' Tipu Sultan.

 

[PakSarzameen5823]

But "admire the muslim rulers" is a bit too far fetched. Except a few lunatics in South who 'admire' Tipu Sultan.

No, it's not. Numerous Indians (who aren't Muslim) love the Muslim rulers of India and can be seen praising them, particularly Akbar, Shah Jahan and Tipu Sultan. However, I have even seen some Indians (who again, are not Muslim) justifying Mahmud Ghaznavi's invasions of India (which baffles me to no end).

I can understand why Muslims in India would like these figures since they are part of our (i.e Muslims) history, but anyone else taking them as their heroes is just someone with a serious lack of knowledge about history.

I would also like to know, do you have anything to say about the rest of my post?

 

[illusion8]

No, it's not. Numerous Indians (who aren't Muslim) love the Muslim rulers of India and can be seen praising them, particularly Akbar, Shah Jahan and Tipu Sultan. However, I have even seen some Indians (who again, are not Muslim) justifying Mahmud Ghaznavi's invasions of India (which baffles me to no end).

I can understand why Muslims in India would like these figures since they are part of our (i.e Muslims) history, but anyone else taking them as their heroes is just someone with a serious lack of knowledge about history.

I would also like to know, do you have anything to say about the rest of my post?

As I said, there are dumb people in all countries - there are some here who admire commies too, even mao who killed millions. Some even believe in Scientology and that the Earth is flat, while some gain sexual pleasure by raping an infant or an animal.

Till such lunatics are not decision makers or are part of any decision making bodies, one can bear to have them around. But if they are - like Mamatha Banerjee who is a great lover of bangladeshi refugees for vote bank - then it surely becomes a pain.

 

[PakSarzameen5823]

As I said, there are dumb people in all countries - there are some here who admire commies too, even mao who killed millions. Some even believe in Scientology and that the Earth is flat, while some gain sexual pleasure by raping an infant or an animal.

Till such lunatics are not decision makers or are part of any decision making bodies, one can bear to have them around. But if they are - like Mamatha Banerjee who is a great lover of bangladeshi refugees for vote bank - then it surely becomes a pain.

Still doesn't answer my last line. Why are you ignoring it?

 

[PakSarzameen5823]

@Pan-Islamic-Pakistan

Salamu Alaikum

Observe how the previous member I conversed with kept quiet after I exposed his lies.

 

[Pan-Islamic-Pakistan]

I know you have lies and denial in your gene so I am not surprised.

Convenient distractions. Always with the quips. As if insults and retorts win arguments.

@Pan-Islamic-Pakistan

Salamu Alaikum

Observe how the previous member I conversed with kept quiet after I exposed his lies.

Great posts brother. I think they don’t have anything more to say about our ancestors.

 

[AUSTERLITZ]

His conquests enabled Islam to flourish across Afghanistan and Pakistan, and he greatly influenced the culture of Pakistan.



He torched and depopulated the old city, but then rebuilt it into what is now Lahore, and other people from his empire then moved in to repopulate it. And this doesn't change the fact that Lahore was his winter capital.



They probably aren't my ancestors since they all either got killed, ran to India, or were enslaved. And I already told you, many people from Pakistan (and even India) fought in his army:

http://www.barmazid.com/2016/11/ghaznavids-had-large-number-of-hindus.html



Exactly, Pashtuns and Indo-Aryans fought in his army. Both groups are present in Pakistan, so for you to say "lol he crushed your ancestors" doesn't make any sense. Especially when most Muslims from Pakistan and northern India are (partially) descended from people who came to the sub-continent during these conquests.



Doesn't change the fact that you lost all the other wars with Pakistan (other than the one that took place in the Siachen), or that Muslims completely battered your country for hundreds of years.

And trust me when I say most Pakistanis have never cared much for Bangladesh, even back then. They just generated revenue for the Western mainland via their agriculture, only a select few of them were ever actually valued as equal citizens (not saying I approve, but that's the blunt truth).

I must say I'm disappointed that you, as a think tank, resorted to saying petty (and incorrect) insults constantly repeated by Indian trolls such as "lol your ancestors got rekt" and "we broke you in two". We were having a perfectly normal conversation. But if you want to be like this, I can play along.

I also don't understand why Indians are so obsessed about ancestry. We are Muslims, so naturally our heroes would be (no surprise here) other Muslims. What's next? Are you going to say we can't be proud of our Prophets (peace be upon them all), or their companions (may Allah be pleased with them)? Countries, like we have today, weren't even a thing back then. In those times, there was only Darul Islam (Muslim land), Darul Harb (hostile land), and Darul Ahd (land which Muslims have a truce with). That's how we (practising Muslims) view history.



Wrong, he had Indo-Aryan generals such as Tilak.

If the ones taht he killed or enslaved arent your ancestors,then the IVC people arent your ancestors either since their descendants they got killed or enslaved and replaced by your forefathers.Pick one.
Lost all wars?I'm not the guy talking with half a country,a bankrupt economy.
Battered my country?Or rather every single ones battered yours.Show me a single muslim punjabi sindhi empire in history.Zero. Only indigeneous empire from your region in history were sikhs.All others were first to be savaged,and starting with sindh first to surrender.
Listen we were having a perfectly normal thread,and i didn't start any thing.Scroll back and see how a guy called reichsmarshall suddenly brought ghazni into the conversation and how it would be fun to bring down statues in india ,completely unprovoked.So i merely retaliated.You can be proud of whoever you want,its your prerogative - but refrain from unprovoked insults or they will be answered.

 

[PakSarzameen5823]

If the ones taht he killed or enslaved arent your ancestors,then the IVC people arent your ancestors either since their descendants they got killed or enslaved and replaced by your forefathers.Pick one.

I was specifically referring to the example of Lahore that you gave. Obviously, most of our ancestry would still be from local converts who assisted the conquerors in their campaigns, but a small amount of it does come from foreign migrants to the region (as proven in several genetic studies). Since most of us identify as religious Muslims, obviously we'll care more about the history of Islam/Muslims in the region than IVC or whatever else took place before that.

Lost all wars?

3/5, and prior to that we (i.e Muslims) were hammering you for hundreds of years.

I'm not the guy talking with half a country.

No, you're the one who's country lacks enough toilets.

a bankrupt economy.

Have you forgotten how many of your people earn a dollar a day (or less)?

Show me a single muslim punjabi sindhi empire in history.Zero. Only indigeneous empire from your region in history were sikhs.All others were first to be savaged,and starting with sindh first to surrender.

It seems you're willingly ignoring my point. I'll post it again for you to understand:

"We are Muslims, so naturally our heroes would be (no surprise here) other Muslims. What's next? Are you going to say we can't be proud of our Prophets (peace be upon them all), or their companions (may Allah be pleased with them)? Countries, like we have today, weren't even a thing back then. In those times, there was only Darul Islam (Muslim land), Darul Harb (hostile land), and Darul Ahd (land which Muslims have a truce with). That's how we (practising Muslims) view history."

And as said before, Muslims from Pakistan and north India are descended from these conquerors, they have influenced our culture immensely, and in Islam we are all considered to be the children of Adam (peace be upon him), the first human who we also consider to have been Muslim. None of your points are relevant, and they display a profound lack of knowledge on your part about the subject at hand.

Also, just because you've never heard of such individuals, doesn't mean they don't exist. It just exposes your ignorance of history. Anyway, here's a list of some Muslim rulers/soldiers from what is now Pakistan that also belong to the same ethnic groups as many Pakistanis:

Muhammad Bin Qasim had Baloch and Indo-Aryans fight in his army.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muhammad_bin_Qasim#The_campaign

Ahmed Khan Karral was a Punjabi rebel from Sahiwal who fought against the British and Sikh empires.

https://www.dawn.com/news/793732

Babur had Pashtuns and north Punjabis fight in his army.

http://firdosh101.blogspot.com/2009/05/history-of-gakhars.html

http://www.barmazid.com/2016/05/baburs-relations-with-pashtun-tribes.html

As said before, Mahmud Ghaznavi had Indo-Aryans in his army.

http://www.barmazid.com/2016/11/ghaznavids-had-large-number-of-hindus.html

Shahbaz Khan was a Punjabi, and a general of the Mughal Empire during the reign of Akbar. He fought in many battles, expanding the domain of the Empire and crushing those who rebelled against it. He also introduced the dagh o mahali system into the Mughal military to curb corruption and boost efficiency.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shahbaz_Khan_Kamboh

https://epaper.dawn.com/DetailImage.php?StoryImage=02_10_2016_177_005

Jam Nizamuddin was a Sindhi Sultan who ruled over much of southern Pakistan and Gujarat.

https://www.dawn.com/news/688267

Sikander Butshikan was an Indo-Aryan (as displayed by the fact that his father claimed ancestry from the Pandavas) who's family originally came from Swat that ruled over Gilgit Baltistan, Azad Kashmir, Jammu and Kashmir, and other surrounding territories. He completely crushed his enemies and earned the title of 'butshikan' which means 'idol breaker' for destroying many of their statues. He also kept cordial relations with Tamerlane.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sikandar_Butshikan

http://lostkashmirihistory.com/sultan-sikandar-man-myth/

https://archive.org/stream/ainiakbarivolum00mubgoog/ainiakbarivolum00mubgoog_djvu.txt

Ali Sher Khan Anchan was a famous Balti king from Gilgit Baltistan who conquered parts of northern Pakistan and India. He also kept cordial relations with the Mughal emperor Akbar (who himself came from Umerkot, which is in Sindh).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ali_Sher_Khan_Anchan

Mir Chakar Rind was a Baloch Sultan who ruled over much of southern Pakistan, and at one point sent his army to sack Delhi. He also helped Humayun retake the throne from the Sur dynasty.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mir_Chakar_Rind

http://balochistansearch.blogspot.com/p/blog-page_18.html

https://real-politique.blogspot.com/2009/12/mir-chakar-khan-rind-warrior-hero-of.html

I can list more names if the above list doesn't suffice.

Listen we were having a perfectly normal thread,and i didn't start any thing.

Yes, you did. I was perfectly amicable with you until, like most Indian nationalists on the internet, you had to start running your mouth like an idiot.

.Scroll back and see how a guy called reichsmarshall

That's not my problem, take it up with him but don't direct your frustration at me. It makes you look silly.

You can be proud of whoever you want,its your prerogative

Then stop trying to tell us otherwise.