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After J-10s/FC-20

I think ONE CAN DO WHATEVER HE THINKS
anf J10 is too not so much mature that we look around

The only fighter for nxt programme is JXX or similar programme.

Well PAF should strive for some various programmes
such as indiginous AESA RADAR, Indiginous AVIONIKS PACKAGE, AVIONIKS SYS
and BVR MISSILE MANUFACTURING FACILITIES
 
I think ONE CAN DO WHATEVER HE THINKS
anf J10 is too not so much mature that we look around

The only fighter for nxt programme is JXX or similar programme.

Well PAF should strive for some various programmes
such as indiginous AESA RADAR, Indiginous AVIONIKS PACKAGE, AVIONIKS SYS
and BVR MISSILE MANUFACTURING FACILITIES

But I doubt J-10 Will attract the same attention from China when J-xx takes to skies

you never know What chinese would come up with

AESA! well I am thinking about 7 8 years for this
AVIOs yap we ll see them once thunder matures in 5 to 6 years
BVR missiles Pakistan is producing SD-10 BVRs and AWC (Air Wepons Complex) is the missile and Air armaments manufacturing facility in Pakistan:enjoy:
 
BVR missiles Pakistan is producing SD-10 BVRs and AWC (Air Wepons Complex) is the missile and Air armaments manufacturing facility in Pakistan:enjoy:

i do not think that the production of SD10 have started at AWC as yet. can you point out to source link please. i have already asked you for this earlier and hope that you can come up with the link this time. i will be really helpfull of us!

regards!
 
I do not think that it is unwise to have production (assembly/maintenance) in Pakistan cause if you look at the numbers we will need then it is the best move. 150 thunders with 4-12 missiles per plane... You need huge storage anyway... :)

Add to that 500 amraam c5 and thousands of wvr...
 
I do not think that it is unwise to have production (assembly/maintenance) in Pakistan cause if you look at the numbers we will need then it is the best move. 150 thunders with 4-12 missiles per plane... You need huge storage anyway... :)

Add to that 500 amraam c5 and thousands of wvr...

Munir
In addition to your post looking at chinese experience of assembling SU27 in the nineties. they had a pretty tough time initially and needed a lot of help from the Russians assembling SU27s. I think Pakistani aviation industry is in its infancy. We need to hone our skills and get used to JF17s first. Even that will take at least 3-5 yrs before we are confidently building the plane without any supervision.then there are the issues of increasing the content of local production in Thunder. these are complex issues for Pakistan and need to be gone through before we take on other projects. I think taking on a more complex project will lead to chaos and should be avoided at all costs.
However commonality of avionics should be another matter altogether and if there are common items that can be used in both and we have inhouse facilities , we should avail that opportunity and get offshoots from the chinese for that.
WaSalam
Araz
 
I agree that mastering JF17 will start from assembling, overhauling and then maybe Pakistani parts. But a smaller pl12/sd10 is more known field after Bakter Shikan, Anza, Babur, Ra'ad (and some unknown missiles...). And you do not need thousand engineers to master it.
 
I agree that mastering JF17 will start from assembling, overhauling and then maybe Pakistani parts. But a smaller pl12/sd10 is more known field after Bakter Shikan, Anza, Babur, Ra'ad (and some unknown missiles...). And you do not need thousand engineers to master it.

Rightly said! Building a plane is different thing and SD10 is a different field of play!
At AWC we have been producing some weapons of finest quality and I don’t think that SD10 will be a big issue!
But
Still I have not heard about it from any source and therefore I request hassnain to help us out by providing a link to his claimed. I hope it will help all of us!

Regards!
 
I thought the F-XX was slowly turning into a pointless endeavour.
Would be nice to have our shaheens getting their hands on 5th gen. goodies.
Do the Europeans have any plans on making a 5th gen. fighter because last time I checked they were content with Eurofighter and the French were happy with the Rafale.
 
I thought the F-XX was slowly turning into a pointless endeavour.
Would be nice to have our shaheens getting their hands on 5th gen. goodies.
Do the Europeans have any plans on making a 5th gen. fighter because last time I checked they were content with Eurofighter and the French were happy with the Rafale.


that is how i would ultimately turn out to be!
the 5th generation are becomming more of a show piece, it will be wise to invest of radar with the ability to detec them rather then making a plane for yourself!i think ones such radar are available, these 5th generation planes will be a lost project to invest in!

regards!
 
The newest versions of f16s are still very capable, but they fall behind Rafale or Typhoon in terms of flight performance, RCS, short field performance and growth potential. The Rafale and Typhoon offer already the same things and even more in their planned basic configurations and they have a lot of growth potential.
Sensor fusion is a technology already realized for Rafale and Typhoon and it will be further enhanced in the future. I wouldn't bet on the F-35 being much superior in that direction. The primary advantage of the F-35 will be its stealth capabilities. But the aircraft will also offer a level of technology in its basic configuration which will be only matched in the evolved versions of Rafale or Typhoon.
In comparison to the F-teens the european aircraft are featureing many systems by defeault which could be more easily replaced with better ones like EWS equipement, IRST/FLIR etc.
I would love to see a fighter by paf based on rafale or eurofighter.. probabily the j10 incorporated some basics from these planes other than from lavi?



however the blk60 is still the best bang for the buck

detection
F-16C (RCS = 1.2 m2): 260 ~ 310 km
JAS39 (RCS = 0.5 m2): 210 ~ 250 km
Rafale (RCS = 0.1~0.2 m2): 140 ~ 200 km
EF2K (RCS = 0.05~0.1 m2): 120 ~ 170 km
 
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economy is everything.
without the development of industry and the progress of technology, to build an air force without foreign fighters is dreaming. china herself is still struggling to pruduce engines for J-10 but now we have to buy from russia.

want a native produced fighter------maybe you have to start with a motorcycle or automobile factory.
Good Luck!
wow very strong statement for Pakis, but a lesson too. that we cannot even create a Jack by ourself hmm.
 
economy is everything.
without the development of industry and the progress of technology, to build an air force without foreign fighters is dreaming. china herself is still struggling to pruduce engines for J-10 but now we have to buy from russia.

want a native produced fighter------maybe you have to start with a motorcycle or automobile factory.
Good Luck!

Haha aren't you a party pooper boooooo :tdown: :bunny::lol:
 
I thought the F-XX was slowly turning into a pointless endeavour.
Would be nice to have our shaheens getting their hands on 5th gen. goodies.
Do the Europeans have any plans on making a 5th gen. fighter because last time I checked they were content with Eurofighter and the French were happy with the Rafale.
They have no choice but to put on a happy face. Like the Soviets and the Chinese, the Euros were caught with their pants down when we debuted the F-117 and later the B-2. Have no doubt that if given the choice regardless of cost, no one would turn away 'stealth'. None of them have the economic wealth to develop an F-22 equivalent. Militarily speaking, the Euros really do not need to develop such an aircraft. They correctly believe that no matter how much anti-Americanism they spew, if the Russians ever act up, the US will once again will save their whiny sorry selves.
 
that is how i would ultimately turn out to be!
the 5th generation are becomming more of a show piece, it will be wise to invest of radar with the ability to detec them rather then making a plane for yourself!i think ones such radar are available, these 5th generation planes will be a lost project to invest in!

regards!
Sorry to disappoint you...Well...Not really sorry...But for at least the next decade, US 'stealth' aircrafts will hold the edge against radar. Currently, only powerful and large ground based arrays have even odds at detecting the F-22 and its brethens. In war, even odds are not good odds. And large arrays are fixed arrays and that make them vulnerable. The US is not doing away with conventional aircrafts. Why should we when both 'stealth' and 'non-stealth' are equally lethal?
 
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j10 and 4.8 gen jet production in kamra
These J-10s would be superior in air combat than anything that the IAF fields today and would only be matched by a possible MRCA acquisition by India. Even then, with the 5 present contenders left in the MRCA, only the Eurofighter (assuming AESA radars) would be able to match the J-10 in air-to-air combat.
what made those j-10's better than anything that the IAF fields today and would only be matched by a possible MRCA acquisition ??? And no link ??


Mirage-2000 upgrade

Iaf is upgrading its Mirage-2000's at a cost of 40-45 million per plane !

Rs 10,000cr deal likely for Mirage-2000 upgrade - India - NEWS - The Times of India
NEW DELHI: Even as Prime Minister Manmohan Singh left for Paris on Monday to further consolidate the ¡®strategic partnership¡¯ with France, the two

countries are now all set to ink the around Rs 10,000 crore deal to upgrade the Mirage-2000 fighter jets in IAF¡¯s combat fleet. This will be the second mega defence deal to be signed with France in recent times after the ongoing mammoth Rs 18,798 crore project to construct six Scorpene submarines at Mazagon Docks in Mumbai.
With defence secretary Vijay Singh being part of the PM¡¯s entourage to Paris, sources said the announcement about the upgrade of the French-origin Mirages is very much on the cards during the trip. The ¡®differences¡¯ over the upgrade project had been ¡®resolved¡¯ after almost two years of hard-nosed negotiations, which were bogged down for some time because French companies Dassault Aviation (aircraft manufacturer) and Thales (weapons systems integrator) wanted close to Rs 14,000 crore for the programme.
¡®¡®The two sides have now arrived at a reasonable price around Rs 10,000 crore. The first four to six Mirages will be upgraded in France, with the rest 50 or so being upgraded in India by Hindustan Aeronautics under transfer of technology,¡¯¡¯ said a source.
Under the upgrade, the entire airframe will be stripped down to be re-wired and re-equipped with new avionics, mission computers, glass cockpits, helmet-mounted displays, electronic warfare suites and of course weapon systems to extend and enhance the operational life of the multi-role fighters by around 20 years.
India had first inducted 40 Mirages in the mid-1980s, with over 20 more being bought in later years. IAF has had a ¡®good¡¯ experience with the fighters, which successfully carried out ¡®targeted bombings¡¯ during the 1999 Kargil conflict. Some years ago, IAF had even pitched for the advanced Mirage-2000-Vs for its gigantic $10-billion project for 126 new medium multi-role combat aircraft (MMRCA).
The defence ministry, however, told IAF to go in for ¡®a global tender¡¯ for the MMRCA project, and France too closed its Mirage production line. Now, the French Rafale is competing with American F/A-18 ¡®Super Hornet¡¯ (Boeing) and F-16 ¡®Falcon¡¯ (Lockheed Martin), Russian MiG-35 (United Aircraft Corporation), Swedish Gripen (Saab) and Eurofighter Typhoon (consortium of British, German, Spanish and Italian companies) in the hotly-contested MMRCA race.

Other advantages of upgradtion -longer range detection across the spectrum, improved tactical situation awareness, longer range weapon firing against multiple simultaneous targets, weapon stealth and extended operating envelope with the capability to engage ground targets while countering airborne threats.typical border protection mission involving two hours on station will require just two upgraded Mirage-2000 aircraft compared with six current aircraft.

¡®Smart Skin¡¯ concept for Su-30MKI


FORCE - A Complete News Magazine on National Security - Defence Magazine
The pre-planned product improvement roadmap for the Su-30MKI continues to make steady progress, with two Indian Air Force (IAF) Su-30MKIs, delivered in mid-2002, being dispatched to United Aircraft Corp (UAC) of Russia¡¯s Irkutsk-based facility (IRKUT Corp) where both airframes will be strengthened and refurbished, and their navigation-and-attack system will be upgraded in order to arm the aircraft with the BrahMos supersonic air-launched cruise missile for both maritime strike and ground attack. Thus, while all structural and electrical work will be undertaken at Irkutsk, the Tikhomirov-NIIP will upgrade the Su-30MKI¡¯s existing NO-11M ¡®Bars¡¯ passive phased-array radar¡¯s performance and operating modes by incorporating a radar target extraction LRU. Once all this has been done, the two upgraded Su-30MKIs will be flown back to India to begin the weapons qualification test-firings, which will be jointly conducted by BrahMos Aerospace and the IAF.
And come 2014, UAC, together with Hindustan Aeronautics Ltd (HAL) will begin upgrading the first 100 IAF Su-30MKIs by modifying their airframes to make them stealthy, converting the existing ¡®Bars¡¯ into an active phased-array radar, enhancing the situational awareness by incorporating active electronically scanned transmit/receive arrays on the aircraft¡¯s wings, and beefing up the defensive-aids suite by installing a combined radar/laser warning system and a missile approach warning system. Tikhomirov-NIIP had by last November begun laboratory-level tests of a ¡®Bars¡¯, which was fitted with an AESA array made up of X-band transmit/receive modules built by Istok JSC.

Since then, another two ¡®Bars¡¯ radars have been modified as part of the R&D phase, which will last until 2012, and will be followed by flight qualification a year later. Incidentally, Tikhomirov-NIIP has also developed the Irbis-E passive phased-array radar for the Su-35BM and will soon begin work on modifying the Irbis-E into an active phased-array radar, which will go on board the Fifth Generation Fighter Aircraft (FGFA) that will be co-developed by UAC and HAL. In addition, both UAC and Tikhomirov-NIIP have come together to develop the ¡®smart skin¡¯ concept under which an AESA array¡¯s transmit/receive modules can be placed anywhere on board the Su-30MKI to generate the relevant radiation field required for achieving more than 180-degree field-of-view.
 

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