Africa and China's Values Deficit

[al-Hasani]

There's a limited amount of resources to go around. It's the age old problem.
Their involvement in Africa could certainly improve. Maybe you should read some additional articles to the ones you already read about how all is good.

And this is a general recommendation, not to be taken in the style of "you lack education".

I never claimed that everything was perfect. The only thing I did was to back the post of @Chinese-Dragon which was very accurate and objective.

Likewise I mentioned that one should have no illusions of Europeans being much better if any better. I gave the French as an example. They have been part of many failed projects in Africa, corruption scandals and what not.

All of that can happen in Africa. Africa is not the property of Arabs or Europeans anymore or other outsiders. It's now a open field where everyone and anyone can invest if they got the money and local backing. The Chinese do have that and thats fair enough if you ask me. Nobody stops Europe and others from countering their investments.

Besides France, UK, USA and others still have a lot to say in Africa. If not still the most.

Also I never understood the anti-China rhetoric among SOME Americans, Europeans. What have China done to Europe or the US? If it was Russia I would be more understandable since their crimes are well-known. Especially in Europe.

As a Slovenian, if I recall, you know all about that.

 

[Audio]

The only thing I did was to back the post of @Chinese-Dragon which was very accurate and objective.

Yeah, it really wasn't. It was just an attempt to water down what the article was implying.

As a Slovenian, if I recall, you know all about that.

Now you really need to brush up on history. Specifically Tito-Stalin rift and why and how it happened that Soviets never entered Yugoslavia like they did everywhere else in central and eastern Europe.

 

[al-Hasani]

Yeah, it really wasn't. It was just an attempt to water down what the article was implying.




Now you really need to brush up on history. Specifically Tito-Stalin rift and why and how it happened that Soviets never entered Yugoslavia like they did everywhere else in central and eastern Europe.

What is not objective about his post then?

So "tensions exist" around "some" construction and employment issues.

Yep, that's just as bad as turning Africans into slaves, colonizing their countries by killing the locals and making them part of European countries, and stealing their resources without even bothering to explain why you're not paying for them. Or wiping out Native Americans and Australian Aboriginals to take their land.

It is quite hilarious that the best they could come up with was "tensions exist" around some issues. And since when do tensions not exist between business partners in any case?

Yes, I know about the Tito-Stalin rift. In fact I was reading about Tito not long ago and saw a video from his funeral and read about his life.

What I said still stands. The big "evil" in Western Europe has been Russia for a considerable time. Since they became relevant during Peter The Great in the late 17th century.

Europe/USA has no reason to hate China for anything other than economic/political rivalry.

 

[Audio]

What is not objective about his post then?

I 'm not into spoon feeding. If you can't see how he manipulates words so that the original intent of the message is watered down, i cannot help you.

Yes, I know about the Tito-Stalin rift. In fact I was reading about Tito not long ago and saw a video from his funeral and read about his life.

If you knew, why did you imply i as a Slovenian should know how it was like under the Soviet boot? But that's besides the point anyways, we moved to Slovenia permanently only in 1995, well after the collapse of the former SU and former Yugoslavia. So, i wouldn't have known anyway.

Europe/USA has no reason to hate China for anything other than economic/political rivalry.

Why would you be under the impression i/we hate China? As for the "big evil", things will blow over, eventually. Blood is thicker then water.

 

[al-Hasani]

I 'm not into spoon feeding. If you can't see how he manipulates words so that the original intent of the message is watered down, i cannot help you.




If you knew, why did you imply i as a Slovenian should know how it was like under the Soviet boot? But that's besides the point anyways, we moved to Slovenia permanently only in 1995, well after the collapse of the former SU and former Yugoslavia. So, i wouldn't have known anyway.




Why would you be under the impression i/we hate China? As for the "big evil", things will blow over, eventually. Blood is thicker then water.

I don't agree with that. Besides you can find similar problems by Europeans so why the double standard? No need for that.

Because Slovenia was under communist rule indirectly due to the Soviet Union. Tito splitting with Stalin or not. No Soviet Union, no communism in Eastern Europe.

Let me reprahse my sentence. I see a lot of hostility towards China for reasons that make little sense.

Anyway it's not all European countries that have bad ties with China. Rather the opposite. Just like European countries have vastly different standpoints on Russia.

 

[Audio]

Besides you can find similar problems by Europeans so why the double standard?

What are you talking about? What Europeans manipulate words to water down the original intent?

Because Slovenia was under communist rule indirectly due to the Soviet Union. Tito splitting with Stalin or not. No Soviet Union, no communism in Eastern Europe.

It was different in Yugoslavia, not so oppressive, less communist in the sense that people were allowed to have small businesses, land etc etc

I see a lot of hostility towards China for reasons that make little sense.

Makes little sense to you, but then again, you can't see the manipulation of words either. Have you maybe entertained the idea that the problem lies with you?

Maybe i can simplify it down a bit for you?

Chinese posters have an agenda to play, make China look good is the name of the game. For this, they misinterpret, sugar coat everything and minimize all the bad news-which is what Chinese dragon did today.
When they cannot get their own way, they try to discredit the poster, when that fails a bunch of them gets rude and they derail it so it gets locked. All in the name of as little people seeing the bad news about China ie minimizing damage. It doesn't even have to be genuine bad news, it can only be as relatively innocent as slander.

I respect that they work for their country but i don't have to accept BS-ing straight in the face. I call them out on it, they cry foul, "China hater", Indian and then you come in and you think i hate China. Until i came to this forum i had much more respect for Chinese people and China in general, but interacting with these guys here..... well, let's just say there's a reason why there's 2 million internet censors in China.

Anyway it's not all European countries that have bad ties with China.

Who has bad ties? Except Norway due to the Lu Xiaobo thing.

 

[al-Hasani]

What are you talking about? What Europeans manipulate words to water down the original intent?



It was different in Yugoslavia, not so oppressive, less communist in the sense that people were allowed to have small businesses, land etc etc



Makes little sense to you, but then again, you can't see the manipulation of words either. Have you maybe entertained the idea that the problem lies with you?

Maybe i can simplify it down a bit for you?

Chinese posters have an agenda to play, make China look good is the name of the game. For this, they misinterpret, sugar coat everything and minimize all the bad news-which is what Chinese dragon did today.
When they cannot get their own way, they try to discredit the poster, when that fails a bunch of them gets rude and they derail it so it gets locked. All in the name of as little people seeing the bad news about China ie minimizing damage. It doesn't even have to be genuine bad news, it can only be as relatively innocent as slander.

I respect that they work for their country but i cannot and will not accept BS-ing straight in the face. I call them out on it, they cry foul, "China hater", Indian and then you come in and you think i hate China. Until i came to this forum i had much more respect for Chinese peoiple and China in general, but interacting with these guys here..... well, let's just say there's a reason why there's 2 million internet censors in China.




Who has bad ties? Except Norway due to the Lu Xiaobo thing.

What are you talking about? Water what words down? What manipulation? I gave you examples of Europeans firms, in this case French, who were not acting transparent, who were engaged in failed/delayed projects and who were engaged in corruption. I thought that you agreed with China having a overall positive role in Africa? So what the hell are we actually discussing?

I know that. Just like in Poland. It does STILL not change my initial point. You lived under communism. Thanks to the Soviet Union. Thus the Soviet Union had an direct influence on the lives of people on the Balkans. Besides this is irrelevant. My correct point was that Russia is seen as the bigger evil historically rather than China. Even while we speak. In Western Europe that is as well as most of Eastern Europe.

I am not interested in your interpretation of Chinese users or whatever you have written an essay about with all due respect. I ONLY commented on @Chinese-Dragon 's post which I saw nothing wrong with.

Bad ties is maybe a wrong description. Being skeptical of Chinese policy is maybe a better choice here.

In any case I have to quit for today. I have an appointment tomorrow at 10.00 AM despite having a flu.

 

[Audio]

What are you talking about? Water what words down? What manipulation? I gave you examples of Europeans firms, in this case French, who were not acting transparent, who were engaged in failed/delayed projects and who were engaged in corruption. I thought that you agreed with China having a overall positive role in Africa? So what the hell are we actually discussing?

Which French companies brought their own laborer's in the numbers reaching tens of thousands squeezing locals out of the job market? Concrete examples, up to now, you showed none.

I know that. Just like in Poland. It does STILL not change my initial point. You lived under communism. Thanks to the Soviet Union. Thus the Soviet Union had an direct influence on the lives of people on the Balkans. Besides this is irrelevant. My correct point was that Russia is seen as the bigger evil historically rather than China. Even while we speak. In Western Europe that is as well as most of Eastern Europe.

It was nothing like Poland. Please stop passing superficial knowledge as some sort of universal truth. And you know nothing of my life, so no need to insinuate i lived under communism. Thanks to the Soviet union even, which is just another blunder. This statement alone uncovers how little you know on the subject.

I am not interested in your interpretation of Chinese users or whatever you have written an essay about with all due respect. I ONLY commented on @Chinese-Dragon 's post which I saw nothing wrong with.

I don't understand, on one point you wanted to determine from where all the "hostility" comes, as you yourself put it, and when i explained you my personal reasons, you're suddenly not interested anymore? Don't ask questions to which you don't like answers then.

 

[Informant]

Come on any one can see this hack of an article. China is deeply entrenched in Africa. And China knows the universal language, money. Keeps both the parties happy.