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Afghanistan has broken chains of slavery - PM Imran Khan

English should be made co-official with Urdu to improve the education system in Pakistan. That is just my opinion though.
its not about English or Urdu language .... but about a process

Knowledge Creation which lead to Wealth Generation and whenever any Nation start creating knowledge and generating wealth by its own resources the Self-Esteem, National Prestige and National Confidence of that Nation increase itself

These three factors (Self-Esteem, National Prestige and National Confidence ) are the main contributing factors National Psyche which contribute in Independent Political approach and assertion of Sovereignty


This debate is not even related to any language but the Psyche of a Nation
 
its not about English or Urdu language .... but about a process

Knowledge Creation which lead to Wealth Generation and whenever any Nation start creating knowledge and generating wealth by its own resources the Self-Esteem, National Prestige and National Confidence of that Nation increase itself

These three factors (Self-Esteem, National Prestige and National Confidence ) are the main contributing factors National Psyche which contribute in Independent Political approach and assertion of Sovereignty


This debate is not even related to any language but the Psyche of a Nation
The Pakistani economy is still not that good. It is only $300 billion in Nominal GDP terms.

Even Taiwan has $700 Billion in Nominal GDP terms.
 
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Update on Kabul International Airport Picture from the inside of a crowded US military's C-17 Globemaster plane leaving Kabul Airport tonight.
 
I believe this example is wrong as Sir Syed was not the representative of Cultural Slavery of West, ye he advocated learning of English and Modern Education but he propagated the adoption of English as medium of Education not the Medium of Cultural Expansionism

So It's not about the medium of Education but Medium of of Cultural invasion, I am sure you must have remember after 9-11 one of the first demands of US was to change the curriculum of Primary and Secondary schools in Pakistan and you must be aware about their reasonings, what they were debating in their circles in west but no heed was paid for the technical education, this thing alone is enough to prove their objectives.

Further I am sure you must be aware about the mushroom growth of Private chains of Schools and Colleges and in Universities left oriented professors and Student organizations were encouraged .....

We all how many students of those private schools or Colleges in Pakistan are capable to compete with student of same standard on merit in west ..... but in twenty years rather to focus on quality of education focus was rather set to on different trajectory,

In past 20 years we have produced a class of pupils who are suffering with 'Superiority complex against their own people and alien in their own country" ..... Iman Mazari, Waqas Goria and other member of this class are just few examples.

Further I would ask you to recall the initial days of insurgency in Balochistan which started to expand its roots in Universities and Colleges even before the death of Akbar Bugti.
My remark was sarcastic in nature reflecting the PM’s daft remark on the cultural victory.
Sir Syed did a great service by focusing on adopting the British education in order to create more aware leadership that could play the same game as the Brits and beat them at it which included an understanding of the sciences(technical and economic) along with literature. However, a side effect of this was that the true Madressa system(not the sodomy infested barbaric institutions that dominate it today) was lost along with its more encompassing teachings of not just the Quran & Sunnah but also many other skills including the cultural specific sciences such as mathematics and natural medicine. So where this new generation emerged that knew what the British were doing to rule and could match the Hindu who had adopted faster - they also forgot the knowledge that was gathered in economics and sciences from the days there were muslim empires in India. The Hindu didn’t actually lose it because their religious leaders did not outright reject the British and allowed some of their historical knowledge of medicine and other sciences to be( please do not mistake it with the current paralell but obtuse idiocy they are throwing out in the name of Bhaktoras.. a practicer of vedic medicine could treat most known diseases some 200 years ago as could a hakeem - I am not saying that is obsolete or irrelevant in today’s medicine but using it as inference to where a balance between knowledge adoption including good cultural qualities has to be balanced and not one

Absolutely - but tuition centers were popping up around the same time as Bhutto took over even prior to the invasion of O&A levels. Cultural invasion are successful only if the local culture isn’t strong enough in the first place and doesn’t offer(from a social perspective in independent growth) the freedom of knowledge to all.
What is whole reason the aurat march continues to gain ground despite being incompatible on quite a few fronts with what were supposed Islam based local customs? Probably because the local customs themselves were tribal in origin and had nothing to do with religion. Hence even seemingly religious girls seem to be clinging to this movement because other than archaic cultural “women as property” concepts they find enough justification to hate Pakistani culture. This is an oppressive society that discouraged education for the longest time along with promoting racist and fascist ideals as acceptable “family values” behavior.

Left orientation or right orientation is a reflection of imbalances and failed society more than some nefarious design. There were trained “scholars” sent by the British from the 1900s to sway the religious right into leading muslims into more suitable outcomes for the British - not just in Pakistan but in Iran and elsewhere. No different to how the GCC countries, the Iranians and western countries fund young men preaching Quran while lying on couches.

What matters is whether the society had spent enough time evolving its culture in a positive way or only adapting it. Pakistani culture has adapted, it hasn’t evolved but maybe devolved. Bribery is now an acceptable practice and supporters of a major political party chant “we love corruption”. With a mix of Varna(creed,color) and Jati(where they were born) - An elite class consisting of brahmins(representing the political, business, military and religious leadership),Kshatriyas(the military and bureaucrats),Vaishyas(the middle class) and the poor in Shudras have emerged. Among these too are other cultural inheritances of the religious (Syed,Siddiqui, Shia, sunni) or tribal(Rajputs or Arains or their provincial equivalents) and color of skin that make up other divides. The financial aspect castes can be argued that exist in other societies as well, but that doesn’t mean this culture becomes automatically superior for it. Language and literature is essentially moving into slapstick from refined - a massive divide of liberal extremist or religious extremism is playing out on social media while all sorts pay to watch women revealing themselves or idiotic pranks and shorts on tik tok as it is all over the world.

So - the only possible space left to claim cultural superiority then is with education. But that is generally showing little progress and today’s middle class Pakistani even at a CEO level of a 1000 employee organization cannot fathom to build his family a home if he doesn’t have inherited property from his father - or is in the military, or corrupt all the while having to pay expensive tuition fees for both school and the after hours practice for the teacher since government institutions or those that do not follow the O&A level system( barring some boarding schools) cannot offer equivalent pay to good teachers nor a honest education.

So, regardless of the merits/demerits of westen education and associated cultural invasion(as if every lower to upper middle class and elite households aren’t already rife with barenaked Indians gyrating suggestively or constant domestic conflict themed serials that reflects in their daily behaviors) may have infected teens with Justin and promoted unmarried sex through pornography; the cultural invasion from western education did not cause an outbreak of teen affairs. I lived through the evolution of backstreet boys to Nirvana to Eminem - and while there were always the one or two kids having their puppy love, the explosion of these love affairs occurred when Shah Rukh Khan promoted it in Mohabbatien. The kids of your low level clerk to driver are now online and having affairs based upon Pakistani serials - so I ask.. what invaded where?

James Bond was being shown in all its bond girl glory since Dr.NO but it did not cause the cultural invasion much decried here but Bollywood did. Meanwhile, Bollywood has offered no educational input and despite the angst of western nations trying to enforce their narratives to shape the society - it was also western educated scientists that Bhutto called to build the bomb.

So clearly, western education isn’t the problem. Its the local culture itself that is as incoherent in its messaging as it is weak to resisting and responding to threats. Culling women en masse or banning English isn’t cultural supremacy, its cultural failure. Those that live in inferiority complex of the west or dream of green cards for financial or personal freedom are in for a shock. The cultural issues here are different but same in magnitude with evils heretofore not experienced in Pakistani society. But then there are evils in Pakistan that are unheard of here. What is different is the embedding, even if not complete for values of equality, justice and thirst for knowledge within the culture even if it fails on many many occasions.
That is cultural superiority which Pakistan lacks in any form and therefore is easily invaded because all other aspects of culture including language, practices and fashion can change but these don’t.

As a representative of the middle class ( not elite, I don’t own land or came to America with even $5000) with his social circle representing everyone from dentists to bankers to government employees and businessmen, from Nadra to “atmi idaray” and uniformed officers everyone in between that actually run the underlying mechanics and services within the country..they all cite the same three principles lacking within culture (because that shapes society) on why they are fed up of Pakistan and want a way out. Many Pakistanis here will say “good bye! Good riddance!” And post smilies to seem as non-chalant and triumphant as possible, but the one’s looking to get out represent the brain drain that these same people lament later.

Why the long discourse - because the impact of culture in the statement is being taken either as low as the dress or as limited as the English language or western education. Instead, everything that represents Pakistan is culture - be it the hospitality that is lauded all over the world, or the open and acceptable sale of child pornography in Kasur - the choice lies whether Pakistanis choose to consider their sister questioning her father’s decision to not let her study beyond intermediate as justified or cultural degradation because she used some reference from the uncouth ladies that also accompany aurat march.
 
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Update on Kabul International Airport Picture from the inside of a crowded US military's C-17 Globemaster plane leaving Kabul Airport tonight.

Biden is not responsible for anything. Whatever he said today, absolutely spot-on. There was no time or any specific timeframe for withdrawal. He actually did a right thing. Now its quite evident that there was a secret consent + agreement btw US/Pakistan/Russia/China with Talibans. In the entire episode and vacuum, we haven’t seen any bloodshed. Smooth re-control of fighters without firing a single bullet. It was never happened without a mutual understanding btw the powers. By pulling out forces, Biden actually stopped all the bloodshed. The blunder of boots on ground done by the Bush and co. United States never ever labelled Taliban as a “Terrorists” group or responsible for 9/11. U.S. attacked Afghanistan when the Talibans refused to handover OBL. Americans abandoned A-stan because of many reasons. The way top administration of Ghani, Commanders and NDS fled to other countries that shows they’re not working for their own people. They’re on the pay role of some one irrelevant country who has no stakes except opening another front for Pakistan as US ex Commander and US Defense Secretary Chuk Hagel stated “yes we know there is another front opened against Pakistan from Afghanistan”. Period!!!!
 
Biden is not responsible for anything. Whatever he said today, absolutely spot-on. There was no time or any specific timeframe for withdrawal. He actually did a right thing. Now its quite evident that there was a secret consent + agreement btw US/Pakistan/Russia/China with Talibans. In the entire episode and vacuum, we haven’t seen any bloodshed. Smooth re-control of fighters without firing a single bullet. It was never happened without a mutual understanding btw the powers. By pulling out forces, Biden actually stopped all the bloodshed. The blunder of boots on ground done by the Bush and co. United States never ever labelled Taliban as a “Terrorists” group or responsible for 9/11. U.S. attacked Afghanistan when the Talibans refused to handover OBL. Americans abandoned A-stan because of many reasons. The way top administration of Ghani, Commanders and NDS fled to other countries that shows they’re not working for their own people. They’re on the pay role of some one irrelevant country who has no stakes except opening another front for Pakistan as US ex Commander and US Defense Secretary Chuk Hagel stated “yes we know there is another front opened against Pakistan from Afghanistan”. Period!!!!
Yes, if I remember correctly, the Afghan Taliban asked for proof for Osama's involvement in 9/11.
 
I don't care much about traditions, I care about culture and its evolution. Its okay to borrow from other civilizations if its a good idea, this is how progress is done.
Exactly, take the best of every culture and make it part of our culture.
 
Scholarships aren't just rewarded on basis of merit and accomplishment but also on the basis of the student's finances and affordability.


In musharaf's time it was free for the masters and phd students and major chunk of the science scholarships were secured by the Urdu medium on merit until the class conscious pakistani kachra took over . All they had to do is just a sign a bond and serve the motherland for some years.
 
In musharaf's time it was free for the masters and phd students and major chunk of the science scholarships were secured by the Urdu medium on merit until the class conscious pakistani kachra took over . All they had to do is just a sign a bond and serve the motherland for some years.
And yet most of this class didn't return ...choose to ran away in western nations ..
 
And yet most of this class didn't return ...choose to ran away in western nations ..


There parents/guardians paid the bonds . But many did come back and still serving under their b.a m.a pass bosses
 
There parents/guardians paid the bonds . But many did come back and still serving under their b.a m.a pass bosses
Yes ..many do come back but in general most of them don't ...it just make difficult for the deserving one about scholorship..
They paid bond once government start persuing them and names were shared publicly,I believe otherwise they were okay with fraud like many others
 
However, a side effect of this was that the true Madressa system(not the sodomy infested barbaric institutions that dominate it today) was lost along with its more encompassing teachings of not just the Quran & Sunnah but also many other skills including the cultural specific sciences such as mathematics and natural medicine. So where this new generation emerged that knew what the British were doing to rule and could match the Hindu who had adopted faster - they also forgot the knowledge that was gathered in economics and sciences from the days there were muslim empires in India.
I vastly agree with you specially this above quoted part.

You have rightly pointed out that we have a wide gap of at least 300 years in which we lost our way of teaching and created a wide divide within the society .....

Now our current Madarsa system don't teach Mathematics, Geometry or Medicine at advanced level they in past were known for this and because of this they were part of system of Knowledge creation

this thing alone has put that segment of the society to a path which lead it out of wealth generation and to remain integrated with society they now are Business of Religion and we know how dirty this business is ...

Pakistani culture has adapted, it hasn’t evolved but maybe devolved.
yes it is devolving and reason is simple none of the segment is contributing in knowledge generation none is exhibiting Problem Solving capability which this society is facing ...
so I ask.. what invaded where?
Like in my other post (click here) in this thread I talked about National Psyche it has invaded and distorted so much that it has now become a subservient of west and classic example of Inferiority Complex ..... you yourself has write about it many times on this forum

So clearly, western education isn’t the problem
Again Education could never be the problem but the formalities necessarily attached to it by the people suffering from inferiority complex .... for example there is no emphasis on Technical Education or even increasing the job opportunities but the emphasis is on certain things ..... related to our National Interests

Now to be accepted as Moderate Person one have to curse its own people from religion to dress or even eating habit on purpose then in the next step have to target core Political Interest of Nation ....

A thinking which prohibit a certain class to denounce the Chenagai airstrike killing dozens of childrens by US drone, a thinking which support PTM and Baloch Terrorism and their open attacks on Law enforcement agencies, a thinking which support their open demands which are violation of National Sovereignty, but openly accusing and denouncing supposedly a Pakistani involvement in Afghanistan and Kashmir ....

I am against these "Necessary Formalities" which now has become the standard of supposed educated class in these 20 years, I am against this Politicised Education, I am against this Modernized Slavery. I am against this Enlightened Moderation.

their sister questioning her father’s decision to not let her study beyond intermediate as justified or cultural degradation because she used some reference from the uncouth ladies that also accompany aurat march.
Oh come on you know it these type of event are now rare cases, every year ratio of women graduating is increasing, in fact in some disciple there are always more number of women register then men, Medical and Pharmacy are just few example.

Yes, if I remember correctly, the Afghan Taliban asked for proof for Osama's involvement in 9/11.
Not only this they offered to handover to KSA which America refused, then in second offer to handover to a judicial commision of Muslim countries that too was refused by USA.

Pakistan's Ambassador to Afghanistan during 9/11 is on record about these offers just try to find the interview of Pakistani Ambassador (I am forgetting his name) to Geo News.
 
He talked about how the Pakistani education system encouraged a slave mentality through the English Medium curriculum. He said it was bought originally to create brown Englishmen for the Empire. He said post independence we adopted it and kept that same culture where our culture/language is considered inferior to those of Westerners.

During this speech he went on to talk about how in higher education people adopt English culture and become mental slaves to this foreign culture.

Ah! So that's what's wrong with our education system.
 

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