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Afghanistan fire 25 mortar shells in Pakistan: Officials.

the onus is actually on you, since you made the initial claim

Not really.. Its you who wants me to change my belief.. I am pretty all right whether you agree to my POV on this or not.. Those who matter do agree.. ;)




you indians here are so predictable :laugh:

Predictability is not bad actually.. Some people use the term stability instead though

i clearly told you that i dont have the facts, nor was I in the room at the time so it's a bit hard for me to say

as for Mullen, i believe he was referring to the Haqqani network (with whom they also have ties and communication)

Well, he called them terrorists and ISI as their handlers ...

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/09/23/w...attack-on-us-embassy.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0




correct; because it was an established relationship and relationships don't just get shattered at the snap of a finger......given your vast experience with the tamil tigers and other armed outfits i'd have expected indian like you to understand that
1. Pakistan was the only country of the world which recognized the govt of a body declared terrorists by UNSC
2. LTTE never had any govt that was recognized by India...


ironically, over a decade later it appears they will be back in power - which is why Americans are running to us asking to help with the reconciliation process
Too many slips between the cup and the lip..




and I think you are being overly 'promiscuous' when discussing said "role" :laugh:
Not really, cause its you who is acting all monogamous after being caught in the act ;)
 
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You are going to educate me? Chalo tumari class ley laita hun. I lied for a purpose that cinimas are present only in peshawer, the fact is they are present in every small city, from abbotabad from to DI khan. You went along with my lie, boy you have no clue about your FATA or KPK. There is no Afghan film industry in peshawer and karachi you are talking about , the pashto films of Pakistan are produced in lahore...
And before raising finger on me, first revise yourself. You are living in abroad, belonging to mommy daddy burger family. You yourself said that younger generations of your family and relatives are unable to speak pashto, they can only speak urdu and english as they live in islamabad, lahore etc. Your own pashto is destroyed, your post in pakhto was heavily mixed with urdu words. Should i embaress you by posting that pakhto post of your here and teach you the proper pashto?
Dont try to act smart or cool with me next time.

"boy" :what:

are you serious? I'm probably old enough to be your uncle, kid.


burger family? I support myself, pay my bills, pay my own living expenses and barely have enough to spend on 'leisure' things.......you probably still live AT HOME with your mommy and daddy. So spare me your garbage, you dont know who i am.

furthermore, i dont need some twit to teach me a language i grew up with.....just because you speak an Afghan dialect of Pashto does not mean that I can't speak my own.


if you want to be treated with even a modicum of respect, then you have to earn it. Yapping that mouth of yours and typing away the garbage you type on here wont earn you anything other than ridicule. Nobody here takes you seriously.







p.s. I was referring to Afghan films - and that topic is not even relevant to this discussion.
 
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@Abu Zolfiqar : Old enough to be his Uncle ! :blink:

What kind of an Uncle drives Ninjas around...surely a Harley Davidson is more suitable ! :D

But how old are you really young man ? :what:
 
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"boy" :what:

are you serious? I'm probably old enough to be your uncle, kid.


burger family? I support myself, pay my bills, pay my own living expenses and barely have enough to spend on 'leisure' things.......you probably still live AT HOME with your mommy and daddy. So spare me your garbage, you dont know who i am.

furthermore, i dont need some twit to teach me a language i grew up with.....just because you speak an Afghan dialect of Pashto does not mean that I can't speak my own.


if you want to be treated with even a modicum of respect, then you have to earn it. Yapping that mouth of yours and typing away the garbage you type on here wont earn you anything other than ridicule. Nobody here takes you seriously.







p.s. I was referring to Afghan films - and that topic is not even relevant to this discussion.

Then you are very childish uncle. Uncle ji you said the same regarding sabawoon noorzai "some weird afghani dialect", even though he was speaking very simple pashto, you did the wrong translation of his pashto to other member. My pashto also feel strange and weird to you. Do you know why? You have become desified, your connections with pashtuns and pashtun watan have weakened, there is no gaurantee that your kids would speak pashto.
You are our old uncle, its natural that you would easily get angry. I didnt meant to turn your mood off, uncle.
 
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Not really.. Its you who wants me to change my belief.. I am pretty all right whether you agree to my POV on this or not.. Those who matter do agree.. ;)

I could care less what your point of view is. Your knowledge of the region and the events that unfolded is clearly limited


Predictability is not bad actually.. Some people use the term stability instead though

no, it just makes you a lot easier to pre-empt



has Pakistan been declared a state sponsor of terrorism? Does CIA and US Govt. still liaise with their counterparts in Islamabad? Mullen's statements are irrelevant anyways since he's retired now and not serving in any capacity.


1. Pakistan was the only country of the world which recognized the govt of a body declared terrorists by UNSC

the taleban are not recognized by the UNSC as "terrorists" --- AGAIN - check your facts first.

You would be best served by reviewing Resolution 1967 FOLLOWED BY later amended resolutions such as Resolution 1989 (revised as of late 2011)

I'm not defending the talebs, for the record. But I don't like to see mis-information being peddled on this forum, which is something you and your people often do here.


2. LTTE never had any govt that was recognized by India...

still doesn't change the fact that they waged a campaign of terror over Sri Lanka for almost a half century before anything called al qaeda or taleban even existed

and everyone knows india's role vis-a-vis "clandestine" activities in Sri Lanka


Not really, cause its you who is acting all monogamous after being caught in the act ;)

Act of what?

even the US DoS acknowledged that it helped breed the grounds for civil war and talebanization of Afghanistan -- yet you focus solely on Pakistan?

Let's set aside our biases and see that Pakistan or "ISI" is the littelest player in the great game to tame or "Control" Afghanistan.

especially if Afghans themselves are raping their own country by allowing every Tom, Dickove, Harri-ove, Ranganath Chadambabambra, etc. etc. to come rape their country.

My statement holds. We merely recognized them (as did other countries). Recognition does not constitute support. Even our politico/energy giant friends in Houston Texas brought these people to discuss pipeline business in the late 1990s (well after the civil war) --is acknowledging them as heads of state seen as "support" on their side?

It is true though that Pakistan would not be pleased to have a pro-enemy puppet govt. to its West --and on that note: how is india's "support" (since you seem to be dogmatically fixated to this term) for the northern alliance warlords any different anyways?
 
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Then you are very childish uncle. Uncle ji you said the same regarding sabawoon noorzai "some weird afghani dialect", even though he was speaking very simple pashto, you did the wrong translation of his pashto to other member. My pashto also feel strange and weird to you. Do you know why? You have become desified, your connections with pashtuns and pashtun watan have weakened, there is no gaurantee that your kids would speak pashto.
You are our old uncle, its natural that you would easily get angry. I didnt meant to turn your mood off, uncle.

it's okay, troubled nephew. I forgive you.

It is incredibly unfortunate that you look up to me with such great expectations and I continue to "disappoint" you.

:lol:

@Abu Zolfiqar : Old enough to be his Uncle ! :blink:

What kind of an Uncle drives Ninjas around...surely a Harley Davidson is more suitable ! :D

hey! uncles still need their fun and shot of adrenaline sometimes.....

Harley sounds fun. You have 35 grand you're willing to PayPal me? So far I can afford the jacket and boots :rofl:
 
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it's okay, troubled nephew. I forgive you.

It is incredibly unfortunate that you look up to me with such great expectations and I continue to "disappoint" you.

:lol:



hey! uncles still need their fun and shot of adrenaline sometimes.....

Harley sounds fun. You have 35 grand you're willing to PayPal me? So far I can afford the jacket and boots :rofl:

Uncle with humour :)
Love you uncle.
 
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Then you are very childish uncle. Uncle ji you said the same regarding sabawoon noorzai "some weird afghani dialect", even though he was speaking very simple pashto, you did the wrong translation of his pashto to other member. My pashto also feel strange and weird to you. Do you know why? You have become desified, your connections with pashtuns and pashtun watan have weakened, there is no gaurantee that your kids would speak pashto.
You are our old uncle, its natural that you would easily get angry. I didnt meant to turn your mood off, uncle.

Luffy you know why you contribute nothing-zero to debate here? Its because you spend half your time attacking other members and discrediting them for trivial things. You have said the same about me, Astanosh Khan and Rescue ranger. Other than them famous personalities like Imran Khan became non-pashtun, Abdur Rab Nishtar the same. You didn't even leave the ghorids and ghaznavids. Now you want to re-arrange history as you like?

No one is going to shower you with flowers for this hypocricy of supporting Afghanistan. Why don't you look at the facts. These are the figures. 50% of the population speaks Dari and only 35% Pashto. Pashto population is said to be higher. Man give me logic, man. Simple logic. Why Afghanistan? From the military to the transport sector non-pashtuns are running things. Even vice president is a non-Pashtun and if you send a letter to Karzai usually VP answers it. Think, wrora, think. Afghanistan isn't your partoga that you want it so bad. Its a country that has made major mistakes.
 
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Dawn.com
Rabi-ul-Awwal 17, 1434
Wednesday 30th January 2013 |


Karzai accuses foreign countries of ‘plotting’ against Afghan peace
AFP | 12 hours ago



KABUL: Afghan President Hamid Karzai accused foreign countries on Tuesday of plotting against his war-weary nation’s peace programme, saying all negotiations should take place under his administration.

Without pointing a finger at any particular country, Karzai said he had told the US government during a recent visit to Washington that “no foreign party must try to take the Afghan peace process in its hand”.

All negotiations with Taliban insurgents should take place through the government-appointed High Peace Council, but unnamed “foreigners” had tried to sidestep the council, Karzai said.

Karzai made the comments in a long diversion during a speech to a water management conference in Kabul, but it was unclear why he raised the issue or who exactly he was targeting.

A senior official told AFP that Karzai was referring “to foreign and internal elements who are trying to tell the Taliban to hold talks with other groups and encouraging political groups to hold talks with the Taliban”.

The plan was to weaken the Afghan government, he said, adding that the “foreign elements” were from both Western and regional countries.

Afghan Defence Minister Bismillah Khan Muhammadi is on a five-day visit to neighbouring Pakistan, where he has met Chief of Army Staff General Ashfaq Kayani.

Afghan-Pakistani relations are understood to have improved recently despite years of suspicion and mutual accusations of Taliban violence plaguing both countries.

“Any effort to conduct peace talks individually is not an effort for peace but it’s a plot by the foreigners, aimed at weakening Afghanistan,” Karzai said.

Washington began tentative moves towards peace with the Taliban a year ago.

But the militia broke off the talks a few months later, apparently over the failure of the United States to free Taliban prisoners held at GuantanamoBay.

The Taliban are in the process of opening a political office in Qatar to facilitate talks, but the US ambassador to Afghanistan said earlier this month that a peace process “hasn’t even really begun”.

The United States, which will withdraw its combat troops next year, has repeatedly said any peace process should be Afghan-led.

Pakistan, which Kabul accuses of harbouring Taliban fighters, said it freed 26 Taliban prisoners late last year in a bid to kick-start peace talks ahead of the withdrawal of US and NATO forces.
 
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We know that the mayor of Kabul is a joke, but at least have enough guts to accuse these "foreign countries" to their face.

Afghanistan has been a threat to Pakistan and world peace for decades now.
 
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Karzai wants t be able to direct the future political set up, US is determined to undermine him - now with Kerry in place, Mr. Karzai may become "accident prone" tsk, tsk - Democracy at work
 
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Karzai wants t be able to direct the future political set up, US is determined to undermine him - now with Kerry in place, Mr. Karzai may become "accident prone" tsk, tsk - Democracy at work

Will be interesting to see how things pan out sir.

I pray not to see a repeat of 1990s and pre/post withdrawal internal fighting
 
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I could care less what your point of view is.

Then stop trying to convince me that Pakistan had no role to play in Taliban's capture to Kabul :)




no, it just makes you a lot easier to pre-empt

You think :) ?




has Pakistan been declared a state sponsor of terrorism? Does CIA and US Govt. still liaise with their counterparts in Islamabad? Mullen's statements are irrelevant anyways since he's retired now and not serving in any capacity.
Unrelated. We were discussing the comments by Mullen and how you chose to take Armitage's word over your COAS's when it suits your argument and choose to ignore Mullen's when it does not..;)



the taleban are not recognized by the UNSC as "terrorists" --- AGAIN - check your facts first.

You would be best served by reviewing Resolution 1967 FOLLOWED BY later amended resolutions such as Resolution 1989 (revised as of late 2011)

"Resolution 1267 (1999) and subsequent resolutions have all been adopted under Chapter VII of the United Nations Charter and require all UN Member States to, inter alia: "freeze the assets of, prevent the entry into or transit through their territories by, and prevent the direct or indirect supply, sale and transfer of arms and military equipment to any individual or entity associated with Al-Qaeda, Osama bin Laden and/or the Taliban as designated by the Committee"."



I'm not defending the talebs, for the record. But I don't like to see mis-information being peddled on this forum, which is something you and your people often do here.

Well, as per you are your people, anything that embarrasses Pakistan anyway is misinformation.. But then burying your head in the sand wont change the facts.. Would it ???



still doesn't change the fact that they waged a campaign of terror over Sri Lanka for almost a half century before anything called al qaeda or taleban even existed

and everyone knows india's role vis-a-vis "clandestine" activities in Sri Lanka
Never seen scores of Indian nationals labeled as terrorists by UNSC or any other international body.. But anyway, this again is off topic here.. Are you btw, taking lessons from Windy on off topic diversions ?? :azn:



even the US DoS acknowledged that it helped breed the grounds for civil war and talebanization of Afghanistan -- yet you focus solely on Pakistan?

USA did that prior to their move out of the region when they used Pakistan and Mujahiddeens as pawns against USSR.

One they left, your military leaders saw and opportunity to use religious extremism to get the elusive strategic depth in Afghanistan.. But as we know, they traded short term gain for long term pain...


especially if Afghans themselves are raping their own country by allowing every Tom, Dickove, Harri-ove, Ranganath Chadambabambra, etc. etc. to come rape their country.

Still their country, and Pakistan should have no say in what they do or dont do.. Something Pakistan is not able to come to terms with...

My statement holds. We merely recognized them (as did other countries). Recognition does not constitute support. Even our politico/energy giant friends in Houston Texas brought these people to discuss pipeline business in the late 1990s (well after the civil war) --is acknowledging them as heads of state seen as "support" on their side?
Incorrect.. USA never recognized the Talib govt in Afghanistan. This way Pakistan state has bent over backwards multiple times to negotiate with the likes of TTP for peace in KP. Does that mean Pak govt recongizes TTP as head of state for the region ?? :woot:


It is true though that Pakistan would not be pleased to have a pro-enemy puppet govt. to its West --and on that note: how is india's "support" (since you seem to be dogmatically fixated to this term) for the northern alliance warlords any different anyways?

I do not see the northern alliance being branded and clubbed with terrorists in any UNSC resolution.. Do I ??
 
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Then stop trying to convince me that Pakistan had no role to play in Taliban's capture to Kabul :)

I'm not trying to convince you of diddly squat; i'm merely correcting misinformation peddled by you with facts.


You think :) ?

i know



Unrelated. We were discussing the comments by Mullen and how you chose to take Armitage's word over your COAS's when it suits your argument and choose to ignore Mullen's when it does not..;)

since you do insist on talking about it, you claimed initially that Armitage and the retired COAS exchanged harsh words over a phone call. That is incorrect. Armitage had no direct meeting with General (retd.) Musharraf; it was a 1-on-1 with the DG-ISI. Either through translation there was an error, or maybe he really said it, or maybe it was just massive flatulence which the latter comprehended negatively. Who the fack knows and who the fack cares?

it's purely irrelevant anyways; years down the road they still need us which is why they are constantly approaching us for guidance on Afghanistan

"Resolution 1267 (1999) and subsequent resolutions have all been adopted under Chapter VII of the United Nations Charter and require all UN Member States to, inter alia: "freeze the assets of, prevent the entry into or transit through their territories by, and prevent the direct or indirect supply, sale and transfer of arms and military equipment to any individual or entity associated with Al-Qaeda, Osama bin Laden and/or the Taliban as designated by the Committee"."

i think you spent more time on italicizing and bold-facing this part that you neglected to look at the Amended resolution in which the Taleban's name was removed from what was once the "Al Qaeda AND Taleban Sanctions Committee"

as of 2011, only Al Qaeda is mentioned. Rightfully so too, since they are a common enemy of all of ours and we are working to eliminate them from the region.




Well, as per you are your people, anything that embarrasses Pakistan anyway is misinformation.. But then burying your head in the sand wont change the facts.. Would it ???

not at all....if you didn't have that brilliant mind of yours bogged down over semantics and emotionally-hashed drivel, perhaps you'd notice that I (like many others) are fully cognizant about the issues and challenges we face and in fact I don't hide them - i discuss and post about them quite openly.

it's actually your people who do the disguising, burying and hiding but we can leave that for another day


USA did that prior to their move out of the region when they used Pakistan and Mujahiddeens as pawns against USSR.

it was a common interest to eradicate the soviets (your allies) from our backyard and if given the decision again --- we would all support it 100 times.

not all the mujahideen were wild tribals; many were also bachelor students and graduate students who dropped everything to fight a noble cause......that while your degenerate communist friends were strafe-running entire villages using their gunships

the REAL issue vis-a-vis Afghanistan is POST-withdrawal when many of the factions splintered and fought eachother because of the power vacuum that was created. It was clear that the taleban (as an organization) were to be the victors and given their support during those years within Afghanistan it made sense for us to RECOGNIZE them.

what was india doing all this while? Maybe instead of obcessing day & night about Pakistan you should introspect and learn a thing or two about what your country was doing



One they left, your military leaders saw and opportunity to use religious extremism to get the elusive strategic depth in Afghanistan.. But as we know, they traded short term gain for long term pain...

they hedged their bets, based on what was REALISTIC and based on what was the GROUND REALITY

"strategic depth" has now become an over-used term by indians claiming to be analysts of Pakistan and Afghanistan all of a sudden.....in all honesty looking to today, as long as we contain new delhis at times nefarious designs in our western sector then we will have succeeded

based on how things are panning out today, i trust things will be in our favour soon

even American thinktanks are discussing not WHY the U.S. should recognize moderate elements of the taleban as "legitimate stake-holders" but rather WHEN.....(similar to discussions regarding the recognition of Hezbollah of Libnan)


Still their country, and Pakistan should have no say in what they do or dont do.. Something Pakistan is not able to come to terms with...

as long as they have millions of un-registered or falsely registered refugees or wanderers from Afghanistan on OUR soil; as long as they allow or are unable to contain anti-Pakistan proxies, as long as the country is unable to exercise any form of writ of state outside of NATO-administered Kabul and as long as there is a war-like situation in our backyard it is, has been and will continue to be our say. . . .

we share a long and porous border with Afghanistan....you don't. So therefore, you can keep whining about "coming to terms" of this or that, but there aint nothin you can do about it.

Incorrect.. USA never recognized the Talib govt in Afghanistan. This way Pakistan state has bent over backwards multiple times to negotiate with the likes of TTP for peace in KP. Does that mean Pak govt recongizes TTP as head of state for the region ?? :woot:

Following military operations the INTERIOR MINISTRY suggested peacetalks with the TTP while the Khakis proposed a ceasefire. Following Maulana Fazlullah and Sufi Mohammad's violation (in Swat) we went after them and we mopped up the place. Therefore "bending over backwards" phrase used by you does not reflect reality at all.

as for Afghan taleban (which has little or nothing even to do with TTP) - you are right the USA has never had diplomatic relations with them --"them" being the exact same men that President Reagan hailed as freedom fighters.

I already mentioned to you that a taleban delegation was invited to Houston Texas to talk pipeline business...that was in 1997, well after the govt. in Kabul was established.

It was UNOCAL that invited them; perhaps when you have time you should learn about who all were serving on their BoD.

The conglomerate had full US-backing. So when a large energy giant (associated in one way or another with plenty of politicos in Houston Texas and DC) invites a fundamentalist serving government thousands of miles away, does that not constitute recognition of some sort? To me it certainly does. That doesn't exonerate them of their wrongs at all, that goes without saying.


I do not see the northern alliance being branded and clubbed with terrorists in any UNSC resolution.. Do I ??

well hmmmmm gee whiz let me think. Duhhhhh Karzai and much of his cabinet comprise NA and their affiliates, do ya really think NATO or the guys in DC would want to alienate them so soon by calling them terrorists?

Newsweek ran a frontpage report about the Northern Alliance (which i bet apart from the headlines you read, you know ZILCH about them and who they are). Their human rights record is atrocious, they've produced so many double agents that nobody can even trust them anymore, these mugs are knee-deep in the narcotics business (though who isnt these days) and they aren't even representative of Afghan people. In the Afghan context one should ask why the talebs are more influential than the NA. Are the NATOs talking about negotiations with NA or with the Afghan taleban (whose primary base is Kandahar)

(and again -- the talebs are not listed as a terrorist organization by UNSC -- so AGAIN - revisit your facts :lol:)

the problem with a lot of you indians is that you cling on to your dogmatically-held "beliefs" that you fail to notice the broader picture, which is ever-evolving
 
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