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Afghanistan call for sanctions against Pakistan

Well it is a lousy response then ..what India did was over with in months with clear Indian victory ..for Pakistan it has been 20 long yrs now ..still no results.:azn:

Our biggest victory was the creation of PAKISTAN and you people are so.......let's leave out the BS crap that you indian members post, i just don't want to act like a m*r*n. :hang2:

Don't you realise that we are still here from past 63 years beside all indian efforts to succumb Pakistan and we are a nuclear power too?! Face the reality all you indian members and please avoid crap comments if you don't have any usefull topic. :sick:

The other main reason which flame india is that they can't get the role they desire in Afghanistan....they just don't realize that they are pointing to high something which goes beyond their capacities and you will see what will happen when U.S. will leave Afghanistan, indian will be the first one to escape from Afghanistan (if Taliban will let you ran away)!:lol:
 
The thread is about Afghanistan and the need to deflect attention away from the charges of coruption which is a mask for possibly removing Karzai - Is that really yet another "victory" for the Indian? Are there any Indian on this forum who use their brain to think?


If Indian needs to declare "victory", please declare and be gone with you - Afghan forum members will have to decide for themselves how and whether or not Afghanistan will not just survive but prosper.
 
I think the piece below should be required reading for our Afghan forum members, because we have argued that US policy is duplicity personfied, but when an Indian, a supporter of the Indian policy in Afghanistan, such as the author makes the same claim, well, Afghan forum members should at least want to make themselves aware of such thinking - we invite, especially our Afghan forum members to consider the advice the Indian ambassador gives to Karzai, and the open admission that Karzai faces a "FATAL choice" - we hope our Afghan readers are also critical readers - You may find it emotionally satisfying to blame Pakistan for your problems, however, whether Iran, or Russia or India, or France or Turkiye or China or any other, you can't hide from the 800 pound gorillas in the room, the US and yourselves.


Oh, please save it. Where was you till this thread hit almost 300 posts in reagards to seeking more clarity as to why Afghan officials rightfully blame you for the dirty game you are playing. Rest assured, although dirty as it may be and however dexterously you may think to play it, even when you have to cooperate with CIA and conspire against your supposedly frieds lilke Mullah Beradar (if that is the truth which you seem acknowledge) - we know where you stand and every one else. Don't complain about Americans and thier duplicity - duplicity for Pakistan is like breathing air for others. Why do you think I mentioned those four factors in my previous post, which I don't necessarily thik should be a bracing shot in the arm for "critical" Pakistanis alike.

I actually enjoy reading Bhadrakumar's articles. He is Indian, and ex ambassador, and his analysis are more critical and scrutanised. So what does it change for you? Why don't you give us your account of what he is saying.
 
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The thread is about Afghanistan and the need to deflect attention away from the charges of coruption which is a mask for possibly removing Karzai - Is that really yet another "victory" for the Indian? Are there any Indian on this forum who use their brain to think?


If Indian needs to declare "victory", please declare and be gone with you - Afghan forum members will have to decide for themselves how and whether or not Afghanistan will not just survive but prosper.

Ok, what is so biggy - why don't you tell us with all the brains, please. We would love to hear it. Do you seriously believe in the nonsese? I struggle to comprehend how you proceed to make the relation of the topic, then the articles you posted, and questioning how much brain Indian forum members have and then Afghan members.. lol I am beweildered.

I have no doubt in my mind, that there was thinking in the highest order of things amongst the so called A f - P a k officials to bring down Karzai in the election. It was stupid - and if somehow that still persist then it is doomed again. It is impossible, you seriously think it is that easy?

Let me ask you a question: what sort of implication it would have had for Pakistan had Abdullah repalced Karzai in the elections?
 
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Dedicated to our critical readers, including Flame -- A message, worst could happen :

September 2, 2010
Depositors Panic Over Bank Crisis in Afghanistan
By DEXTER FILKINS

KABUL, Afghanistan — One of the principal owners of the Afghan bank at the center of an accelerating financial crisis here said depositors had withdrawn $180 million in the past two days. He predicted a “revolution” in the country’s financial system unless the Afghan government and the United States moved quickly to help stabilize the bank.

Khalilullah Frozi, one of the two largest shareholders of Kabul Bank, said reports indicating that the institution had lost as much as $300 million were overstated. But he predicted that if Afghan depositors continued to withdraw their money at the current rate, Kabul Bank would almost certainly collapse, undermining confidence in the nascent financial system the Afghans have been trying to build with American help.

“If this goes on, we won’t survive,” Mr. Frozi said in an interview. “If people lose trust in the banks, there will be a revolution in the financial system.”

Afghan leaders promised to guarantee deposits in an attempt to arrest the panic, which began earlier this week when the country’s top banking officials demanded the resignations of Mr. Frozi, the bank’s chief executive, and the bank’s chairman, Sherkhan Farnood.

Afghan and American officials say the two men presided over the bank in a reckless and freewheeling manner, doling out millions to allies of President Hamid Karzai and pouring money into risky investments that crashed.

The bank’s troubles — and the corruption associated with them — are posing a direct challenge to the country’s fledgling financial system, which was built under American guidance after the collapse of the Taliban government in 2001. Kabul Bank, which counts a brother of President Karzai among its politically connected shareholders, illustrates the intertwining of political and economic interests in Afghanistan. Afghan and American regulators said the bank’s political connections had shielded it from scrutiny until now
.

If the loss of confidence spreads beyond Kabul Bank, it seems almost certain to strain the resources of the Afghan government — and make it more likely that the United States will be forced to intervene. There were no indications yet that the panic was spreading, but American and Afghan officials said other Afghan banks might face similar troubles.

For now, American officials ruled out any financial assistance. They said they were providing technical assistance to the Afghan government, but nothing more.

“We are taking no steps to bail out Kabul Bank,” said a White House spokesman, Tommy Vietor
. “We support the Afghan Central Bank’s efforts to uphold international standards on transparency and its decisive action in response to reports of fraud at the Kabul Bank.”

In a news conference, President Karzai promised that the Afghan government would guarantee all deposits at the threatened institution. The Afghan government had already given Kabul Bank more than $100 million to ensure that it could pay the salaries of about 250,000 public employees, other Afghan officials said. The bank administers the payments for the government.

“People don’t need to be worried,” Mr. Karzai said. “We’ve got enough cash to support the bank.

“Even if the whole financial system in Afghanistan collapses, we have enough money to support it,” he said.

Mr. Karzai, who appeared with Secretary of Defense Robert M. Gates, said the crisis had been invented by the Western press, which he said had raised baseless fears among Afghans.

“The Western press has been covering it in a negative and provocative way,” he said of Kabul Bank’s troubles.

Still, it was not clear that the Afghan government had the legal authority to guarantee Afghan deposits, or the financial wherewithal to shore up the banking system if confidence were to collapse. Mr. Frozi said Kabul Bank retained about $1.1 billion in deposits. That figure alone would equal about a quarter of Afghanistan’s foreign currency reserves, which Mr. Karzai said totaled $4.8 billion. Afghan officials said the bank had $2 billion in assets, and $120 million in capital.

Most Afghans do not keep their money in the banking system, and Kabul Bank is tiny by international standards. But creating a credible and stable banking system is an important goal of the American-led effort in the country, which is seeking to help Afghanistan develop a modern economy.

Kabul Bank, one of the biggest private financial institutions that sprang up after the fall of the Taliban, stands at the very center of Afghanistan’s political and economic elite. One of Mr. Karzai’s brothers, Mahmoud, is a major shareholder, as is Haseen Fahim, the brother of the Afghan first vice president. The bank lent Mr. Fahim, a prominent businessman, as much as $100 million, officials say.

The bank helped finance President Karzai’s re-election campaign last year, giving him as much as $14 million, according to a former senior Afghan official. Mr. Frozi denied that.

Mr. Karzai chose the bank to administer much of the government’s payroll, which Mr. Frozi described as one of the bank’s most lucrative fields of business.

In the interview, Mr. Frozi said he was mystified by the abrupt loss of confidence in his bank. He conceded that many of the bank’s investments had lost money, but he said that none of them were irrecoverable. The biggest mistake, he said, was the decision by his partner, Mr. Farnood, to buy $160 million worth of villas and office buildings in Dubai, in the United Arab Emirates, at the height of the real estate bubble in 2007.

The next year, the market collapsed. Many of the villas are occupied by prominent Afghans, like former Vice President Ahmed Zia Massoud and Mahmoud Karzai.

“Nobody could have predicted the crisis,” Mr. Frozi said.

Kabul Bank also lent $100 million to Haseen Fahim. His brother, Muhammad Fahim, the Afghan first vice president, has been calling bank officials repeatedly this week from Germany to try to save whatever he can of his family’s money, two Afghans close to the bank said.

The troubles at Kabul Bank, which tie the Fahim and Karzai families together, could strain the alliance between President Karzai and Vice President Fahim. Mr. Fahim, an ethnic Tajik who fought against the Taliban, provides crucial political support to Mr. Karzai’s government
.

Mahmoud Karzai said that he thought the bank could weather the crisis, and that the collapse of confidence that unfolded over the past few days was unwarranted.

“This is nothing but a panic,” Mr. Karzai said. “People are under the impression that the bank is failing, and it’s not.”


Rod Nordland and Sharifullah Sahak contributed reporting.
 
Indian state is spreading terrorism in Pakistan and Spanta is a agent of RAW working in the afghan government. India spourted TTP through its counseltes built along s Pak Afghan Border. These consultetes should be closed which are a center for training terrorists which are sent into Pakistan to spread terrorism. And its not difficult for Pakistan to blow these terrorist camps, but Pakistan beleives on negotiations and dialogue with its naibours unlike india which always crys on mombay attacks like a baby. guys we see 9/11 every day in our country in two days more then 100 people hav been killed and india is asking for mumbai drama.
 
Spanta ko confusion ho gaya hai..he thinks he is Sparta :P
Iss ko koi mirror dekhao.
 
We as Pakistanis can give only one answer to this absurd Afghan demand "flip the middle finger"
 
Another piece dedicated to our critical readers and Flame, First the American have sent a strong message with what they did to the Karzai and Fahim families through the Kabul Bank -- now, destabilization of the urban elite's faith in the GIRoA and by extension, you know who :

September 4, 2010
Inside Corrupt-istan, a Loss of Faith in Leaders
By DEXTER FILKINS
KABUL, Afghanistan

THE government of President Hamid Karzai may be awash in corruption, venality and graft, but if you walk the tattered halls of the ministries here, it is remarkably easy to find an honest man.

One of them is Fazel Ahmad Faqiryar, who last month took the politically risky course of trying to prosecute senior members of Mr. Karzai’s government. Two weeks ago, Mr. Faqiryar was fired from his job as deputy attorney general — on the order, it appears, of Mr. Karzai himself.

“The law in this country is only for the poor,” Mr. Faqiryar said afterward.

The ouster of Mr. Faqiryar illustrated not just the lawlessness that permeates Mr. Karzai’s government and the rest of the Afghan state. It also raised a fundamental question for the American and European leaders who have bankrolled Mr. Karzai’s government since he took office in 2001:

What if government corruption is more dangerous than the Taliban?

Since 2001, one of the unquestioned premises of American and NATO policy has been that ordinary Afghans don’t view public corruption in quite the same way that Americans and others do in the West. Diplomats, military officers and senior officials flying in from Washington often say privately that while public graft is pernicious, there is no point in trying to abolish it — and that trying to do so could destroy the very government the West has helped to build.

The Central Intelligence Agency has carried that line of argument even further, putting on its payroll some of the most disputable members of Mr. Karzai’s government. The explanation, offered by agency officials, is that Mother Theresa can’t be found in Afghanistan
.

“What is acceptable to the Afghans is different than what is acceptable to you or me or our people,” a Western official here said recently, discounting fears of fraud in the coming parliamentary elections. He spoke, as many prominent Western officials here do so often, on the condition of anonymity. “They have their own expectations, and they are slightly different than the ones we try to impose on them.”

Perhaps. But the official’s premise — that the Afghans are more tolerant of corruption than people in the West — has fulfilled itself. Afghanistan is now widely recognized as one of the world’s premier gangster-states. Out of 180 countries, Transparency International ranks it, in terms of corruption, 179th, better only than Somalia.

The examples are too legion to list. Take a drive down the splendorous avenues of Palm Jumeira in the United Arab Emirates, where many Afghan leaders park their money, and you can pick out the waterfront villas where they live. Or look at the travails of Kabul Bank, whose losses threaten the Afghan financial system; officials say the bank’s directors spent lavishly on Mr. Karzai’s re-election campaign and lent tens of millions to Mr. Karzai’s cronies.

Worse, the rationalization offered by the Western official — that Afghans are happy to tolerate a certain level of bribery and theft — seems to have turned out terribly wrong. It now seems clear that public corruption is roundly despised by ordinary Afghans, and that it may constitute the single largest factor driving them into the arms of the Taliban.

You don’t have to look very hard to find an Afghan, whether in the government or out, who is repelled by the illegal doings of his leaders.
Ahmed Shah Hakimi, who runs a currency exchange in Kabul, had just finished explaining some of the shadowy dealings of the business and political elite when he stopped in disgust.

“There are 50 of them,” Mr. Hakimi said. “The corrupt ones. All the Afghans know who they are.”

“Why do the Americans support them?” he asked.

Mr. Hakimi, a shrewd businessman, seemed genuinely perplexed.

“What the Americans need to do is take these Afghans and put them on a plane and fly them to America — and then crash the plane into a mountain,” Mr. Hakimi said. “Kill them all.”

You hear that a lot here — that the kleptocrats are few in number; that most Afghans know who they are; and that the country would be better off if this greedy cabal met a violent end. Why not get rid of them?

Sometimes, it seems, American and Afghan leaders exhibit a kind of willful blindness. In June, President Karzai flew to Kandahar to speak to a gathering of about 400 local tribal elders about a pending military operation. He was accompanied by Gen. Stanley McChrystal, then the commander of American and NATO forces.

Mr. Karzai may have been in Afghanistan, but his appearance seemed to have been scripted by the same people who run political campaigns in the United States. The Afghan tribal elders assembled in a large room, most of them sitting on the floor, and Mr. Karzai, after much delay, strode in, gave a quick and rousing speech, and promptly left the room. Neither Mr. Karzai nor any of his aides — nor any of the Americans — seemed especially interested in what these tribal leaders had to say.

As it happened, they had plenty to say. In interviews afterward, one after the other told stories that were both disheartening and remarkably similar. None of the men (they were all men) harbored any love for the Taliban. But they had even less love for their Afghan leaders.

Typical of the Afghans was Hajji Mahmood, a tribal leader from a village west of Kandahar. Earlier this year, Mr. Mahmood explained, he bought a plot of land from the local administration and invested several thousand dollars to build some shops on it.

Then, a few months later, government agents arrived, bulldozed Mr. Mahmood’s shops and reclaimed the land. The local agent Mr. Mahmood had paid, it turned out, had pocketed the money and failed to record the sale.

Retelling the story, Mr. Mahmood shook his head.

“Not many people support the Taliban, because they don’t really have a program,” he said. “But believe me, if they did, many people would.”

It’s not as if the Americans and their NATO partners don’t know who the corrupt Afghans are. American officers and anti-corruption teams have drawn up intricate charts outlining the criminal syndicates that entwine the Afghan business and political elites. They’ve even given the charts a name: “Malign Actor Networks.” A k a MAN.


Looking at some of these charts—with their crisscrossed lines connecting politicians, drug traffickers and insurgents — it’s easy to conclude that this country is ruled neither by the government, nor NATO, nor the Taliban, but by the MAN.

It turns out, of course, that some of the same “malign actors” the diplomats and officers are railing against are on the payroll of the C.I.A.
At least until recently, American officials say, one of them was Ahmed Wali Karzai, the president’s brother. Mr. Karzai has long been suspected of facilitating the country’s booming drug trade.

Ahmed Wali Karzai denies taking any money from the C.I.A. or helping any drug traffickers. But consider, for a second, the other brother: President Karzai. When he receives that stern lecture from the American diplomat about ridding his government of corruption — and he receives a lot of them — what must President Karzai be thinking?

One possibility: That the Americans aren’t really serious
.

The real difficulty, American commanders say, is that taking down the biggest Afghan politicians could open a vacuum of authority. And that could create instability that the Taliban could take advantage of.

American officers have every right to worry about stability. But the trouble with this argument is that, increasingly, there is less and less stability to keep. And, if Afghans like Mr. Mahmood and Mr. Hakimi are to be believed, it’s the corruption itself that is the instability’s root cause.


As for Mr. Faqiryar, he has become, at age 72, a national icon. A recent editorial in Kabul Weekly, a local newspaper, urged Mr. Faqiryar to carry on his fight against the gangster-state that his country has become. But the editorial struck a tone that was less angry than poignant, as if time were running short.

“We are a nation,” the editors said, “in desperate need of more heroes.”



BTW- Politicians in Pakistan are upset that even in these floods the Afghan have acted as ingrates and have stolen the moniker these politicians have worked so hard and diligently to earn for Pakistan, "Corrupt istan", shame on Afghans!
 
We alerted readers, especially our Afghan forum members that the American has had enough of Karzai and that along with the Indian, they seek alternates -- Karzai, hoping to outwit the American has pinned his hopes on a parliamentary election in which his favorites can come to Majlis - this will enable him to ditch the Indian Northern Alliance and leave the American even more isolated than he is at present - but not so fast, Karzai, American wants a replay of what he did in the presidential polls, while with typical American duplicity, Pakistan, voter fraud, Karzai and Taliban are conflated:


Fake ballots seized ahead of Afghan vote: officials

Tuesday, 14 Sep, 2010
election_papers_608.jpg


Intelligence agents "seized 3,000 forged voting cards printed in Pakistan", the head of the IEC in Ghazni told AFP. – (AP File Photo)

New Afghan elections chief sworn in

KABUL: Election officials in a troubled Afghan province said Tuesday thousands of fake ballot papers have been seized ahead of this week's parliamentary vote, raising concerns about fraud.

Intelligence agents “seized 3,000 forged voting cards printed in Pakistan”on Tuesday, Waheedullah Osmani, head of the Independent Election Commission (IEC) in south-central Ghazni province, told AFP.

Ghazni has come increasingly under the influence of Taliban-led insurgents, who have been making good across the country on threats against candidates and their supporters.

Afghanistan is due to go to the polls on Saturday to elect 249 members of parliament's lower house, the Wolesi Jirga, with more than 2,500 candidates standing in the 34 provinces.

The poll follows last year's presidential election which was marred by massive fraud - much of it in President Hamid Karzai's favour - and more than one million votes were cancelled.

Precautions have been introduced which officials said would help minimise fraud, though Staffan de Mistura, the UN's special envoy to Afghanistan acknowledged the poll would not be perfect.

“The election will not be perfect but based on preparations by the Afghan government I feel assured this election will be better than last year's election,” he told reporters.

He demonstrated an indelible ink that voters will be required to dip a finger into after casting their ballots, in order to avoid double voting.

The number of eligible voters has been estimated at 10.5 million with 12.5 million ballots printed.

IEC officials played down concerns about the fake ballots, with the commission's head Fazel Ahmad Manawi telling reporters: “Such practices could not have any negative impact on the parliamentary election.”

The ink would remain on voters' fingers for up to 96 hours, he said, adding: “Those involved in faking ballots are just wasting their time and money

A total of 2,545 candidates are standing across the country, with 68 parliamentary seats reserved for women. – AFP
 
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