Afghanistan agrees to join Pakistan in anti-terror ops (US to monitor)

[pakipower316]

I won't disagree with your analysis. you have tough choices to make for leadership
as an outsider I feel Nawaz Sharif is better than the other choices. Is that correct ?

NS is as corrupt as Zardari. what the people don't realize is that sharif/Bhutto/zardari weren't born to lead the country. Nobody has that right.

These families are 'professional politicians'!!! That's the term I use for Pakistani ruling parties! Seems like they have a birth right to lead the country!

Zardari does corruption in the crude way whereas NS has systematically corrupted the system and institutions! What NS is doing will take longer to clean up e.g. Give construction projects to his friends/connected people and increase the budget year after year. A small example is Islamabads airport!!! The airport has been moved from its original site, new site is I hear further away from the original site and budget has been increased to almost double.

PIA, has not been in a whose condition - it's been taken to that level in a system way so the price can be brought down to a level that Mr NS likes.

The very judicial system that was used to bring down Musharraf is now being challenged just because it's going against them.

We need a change in leadership! The rulers of ruling parties.

It's somewhat correct. He is the type who does move the country forward a bit(not as much as can be done) but is also somewhat corrupt(or so it seems nothing yet proven...but then again it never gets proven for anyone of them).

My main issue with his government(and others did this in the past too) is that they try to put their relatives and chamchas in any spot they can fill in the government or government owned agencies like PIA/Railway/etc. This approach is more destructive in the long run as compared to him stealing money.

It inflates these agencies like the PIA with way more employees than needed causing a financial strain. Moreover these ppl r not put in there based on merit...they just happen to be some sort of kiss-asses or relatives. This is what's currently plaguing all the government run institutions(and the government itself) right now.

This approach is specially destructive in the key areas of the government like certain ministries...where we need ppl who know a thing or two...instead we have again unqualified ppl.

In short u can see that there is no planning for any long term issues that the nation would face...like severe water shortages. Instead u would see them trying to fulfill electricity shortage, which shouldn't have been a problem in the first place if previous governments had done their job of long term planning.

It's all just "give me ur vote and I'll fix the problem u r facing right now"...and then there's a half-assed attempt at solving that problem mostly to win the next election...that about sums up Nawaz Sharifs way of government

In case of PPP/MQM/PML-Q it's just "hey I can't believe these idiots elected us...well let's take advantage of their mistake to the fullest and loot anything and everything we can"

Imran Khan(PTI) remains to be seen...but I'm not expecting anything different bcuz he let in lotas of PPP and other idiots into his party.

Wow! We wrote things together and pretty much the same thing. Jinx!!

 

[Trango Towers]

if they really cooperate each other then all problems will be solved

except the problem of how to get rid of US forces in the region. for as long as US and nato remain there will be no peace and frankly Pakistan must not allow that to happen as they favour India on our north western border

 

[Cookie Monster]

NS is as corrupt as Zardari. what the people don't realize is that sharif/Bhutto/zardari weren't born to lead the country. Nobody has that right.

These families are 'professional politicians'!!! That's the term I use for Pakistani ruling parties! Seems like they have a birth right to lead the country!

Zardari does corruption in the crude way whereas NS has systematically corrupted the system and institutions! What NS is doing will take longer to clean up e.g. Give construction projects to his friends/connected people and increase the budget year after year. A small example is Islamabads airport!!! The airport has been moved from its original site, new site is I hear further away from the original site and budget has been increased to almost double.

PIA, has not been in a whose condition - it's been taken to that level in a system way so the price can be brought down to a level that Mr NS likes.

The very judicial system that was used to bring down Musharraf is now being challenged just because it's going against them.

We need a change in leadership! The rulers of ruling parties.


Wow! We wrote things together and pretty much the same thing. Jinx!!

It's the ppl...the average person in Pak that keeps electing them...and every time after an election I'm like

ppl basically vote bcuz some MNA(during election time) will make a road for some village...and all the villagers will vote for him...and other such short term gains. They don't see how that MNA looted way more money and basically neglected them after he got elected(until he runs again)

...and the impact it's gonna have on the country as a whole. I call it "Qeemay Walay Naan ki siyasat". When I was in Lahore these politicians would distribute qeemay walay naan during election times to win ppl over

 

[pakipower316]

It's the ppl...the average person in Pak that keeps electing them...and every time after an election I'm like

ppl basically vote bcuz some MNA(during election time) will make a road for some village...and all the villagers will vote for him...and other such short term gain. They don't see how that MNA looted way more money and basically neglected them after he got elected(until he runs again)...and the impact it's gonna have on the country as a whole. I call it "Qeemay Walay Naan ki siyasat". When I was in Lahore these politicians would distribute qeemay Walay naan during election times to win ppl over

Education my friend, that's what they are keeping from the common man and hence his ability to question status quo.

If IK or Musharraf comes and does land reform that would be great!

 

[Cookie Monster]

Education my friend, that's what they are keeping from the common man and hence his ability to question status quo.

If IK or Musharraf comes and does land reform that would be great!

It would be a slow change through education...it's gonna take generations. I mean at this point where the common man is suffering so much...his/her common sense should be sufficient.

It's a simple thought process really...
"If the status quo isn't working...and hasn't worked for decades...then let's change the status quo"
This just requires the public to have common sense and be backed into a corner with nothing to lose. I don't know how they haven't hit their "nothing to lose" limit yet.

Anyways...we r derailing the thread...let's take this discussion elsewhere. Feel free to join us if u wanna further discuss this @wiseone2

 

[wiseone2]

It's all just "give me ur vote and I'll fix the problem u r facing right now"...and then there's a half-assed attempt at solving that problem mostly to win the next election...that about sums up Nawaz Sharifs way of government

Is that what politics is all about ?

 

[Cookie Monster]

Is that what politics is all about ?

Yes...but that doesn't make it right.

 

[wiseone2]

It would be a slow change through education...it's gonna take generations. I mean at this point where the common man is suffering so much...his/her common sense should be sufficient.

It's a simple thought process really...
"If the status quo isn't working...and hasn't worked for decades...then let's change the status quo"
This just requires the public to have common sense and be backed into a corner with nothing to lose. I don't know how they haven't hit their "nothing to lose" limit yet.

Anyways...we r derailing the thread...let's take this discussion elsewhere. Feel free to join us if u wanna further discuss this @wiseone2

the problem with education is that our system is based on memorization. we do not have enough emphasis on critical thinking.

the second issue is that we expect top down solutions for every problem. There is not enough emphasis on bottom up solutions to problems. There is nothing wrong with top down solutions except that we do not get it right.

what I see in Pakistan is the impact of population growth. It is overwhelming all advances made in society. It reminds me of India during the 1970s and early 1980s.

 

[Cookie Monster]

the problem with education is that our system is based on memorization. we do not have enough emphasis on critical thinking.

the second issue is that we expect top down solutions for every problem. There is not enough emphasis on bottom up solutions to problems. There is nothing wrong with top down solutions except that we do not get it right.

what I see in Pakistan is the impact of population growth. It is overwhelming all advances made in society. It reminds me of India during the 1970s and early 1980s.

I agree with the education system being memorization based...it's completely idiotic. Waste of a human brain to not teach it to think critically.

As for the top down solution...well yes everyone looks for the top down solution bcuz that seems faster. Bottom up solutions can take generations.

As for population growth yeah that's a problem...not just in Pakistan but also in India.

It has become less visible in India due to the GDP growing immensely lifting a few ppl's(comparatively) living standards...and in my opinion part of it not being as visible has to do with the Indian government(politicians) actively avoiding it altogether. As in there's plenty of ppl that r still living in the slums in poor conditions, farmers committing suicides due to frustration and being backed into a corner(so much so that one would even consider this option), etc. Also u guys r gonna take over China soon and become the highest populated country on earth, which could worsen some of these problems. I'm not bringing this up as a India/Pak d*ck measuring contest...just trying to say that u or ur fellow countrymen shouldn't be fooled by ur politicians and instead grill them on everything. Hold them to as high a standard as possible. Modi is actively trying to keep the media/ppl's attention on his strong man image. I have yet to see a comprehensive unbiased newspaper article or a news channel report on these kinds of issues in India. In any case...no matter what side of the border...at the end of the day, it is the common man that suffers due to our inept leaders.

 

[wiseone2]

I agree with the education system being memorization based...it's completely idiotic. Waste of a human brain to not teach it to think critically.

As for the top down solution...well yes everyone looks for the top down solution bcuz that seems faster. Bottom up solutions can take generations.

As for population growth yeah that's a problem...not just in Pakistan but also in India.

It has become less visible in India due to the GDP growing immensely lifting a few ppl's(comparatively) living standards...and in my opinion part of it not being as visible has to do with the Indian government(politicians) actively avoiding it altogether. As in there's plenty of ppl that r still living in the slums in poor conditions, farmers committing suicides due to frustration and being backed into a corner(so much so that one would even consider this option), etc. Also u guys r gonna take over China soon and become the highest populated country on earth, which could worsen some of these problems. I'm not bringing this up as a India/Pak d*ck measuring contest...just trying to say that u or ur fellow countrymen shouldn't be fooled by ur politicians and instead grill them on everything. Hold them to as high a standard as possible. Modi is actively trying to keep the media/ppl's attention on his strong man image. I have yet to see a comprehensive unbiased newspaper article or a news channel report on these kinds of issues in India. In any case...no matter what side of the border...at the end of the day, it is the common man that suffers due to our inept leaders.

Everything said in previous threads apply to India. In India we get politicians we deserve. there is no disagreement.

bottom up solutions are necessary in cases where top down solutions do not work. bottom up solutions are disliked because it transfers power to the masses

 

[Cookie Monster]

Everything said in previous threads apply to India. In India we get politicians we deserve. there is no disagreement.

bottom up solutions are necessary in cases where top down solutions do not work. bottom up solutions are disliked because it transfers power to the masses

Agreed...if u were Pakistani...I would be down to vote for u

 

[wiseone2]

I agree with the education system being memorization based...it's completely idiotic. Waste of a human brain to not teach it to think critically.

As for the top down solution...well yes everyone looks for the top down solution bcuz that seems faster. Bottom up solutions can take generations.

As for population growth yeah that's a problem...not just in Pakistan but also in India.

It has become less visible in India due to the GDP growing immensely lifting a few ppl's(comparatively) living standards...and in my opinion part of it not being as visible has to do with the Indian government(politicians) actively avoiding it altogether. As in there's plenty of ppl that r still living in the slums in poor conditions, farmers committing suicides due to frustration and being backed into a corner(so much so that one would even consider this option), etc. Also u guys r gonna take over China soon and become the highest populated country on earth, which could worsen some of these problems. I'm not bringing this up as a India/Pak d*ck measuring contest...just trying to say that u or ur fellow countrymen shouldn't be fooled by ur politicians and instead grill them on everything. Hold them to as high a standard as possible. Modi is actively trying to keep the media/ppl's attention on his strong man image. I have yet to see a comprehensive unbiased newspaper article or a news channel report on these kinds of issues in India. In any case...no matter what side of the border...at the end of the day, it is the common man that suffers due to our inept leaders.

The verdict is out on Modi

Pluses
personally clean - it helps to have no family
solid majority in parliament
strong support within BJP/RSS - he does not look over his back wondering whether he will be removed
decisive in action - good or bad he showed how resolute he is with demonetizaton

Minuses
too much international travel - shouldn't foreign minister be doing the travelling ?
lack of comprehensive approach to problems

Politics is about choices. I doubt we will get a better politician than Modi in the short run
The Congress party is in complete disarray.

The real action is at Chief Minister level. To be polite we have room for improvement.

 

[Kabira]

It's somewhat correct. He is the type who does move the country forward a bit(not as much as can be done) but is also somewhat corrupt(or so it seems...nothing yet proven...but then again it never gets proven for any of them).

My main issue with his government(and others did this in the past too) is that they try to put their relatives and chamchas in any spot they can fill in the government or government owned agencies like PIA/Railway/etc. This approach is more destructive in the long run as compared to him stealing money.

It inflates these agencies like the PIA with way more employees than needed causing a financial strain. Moreover these ppl r not put in there based on merit...they just happen to be some sort of kiss-asses or relatives. This is what's currently plaguing all the government run institutions(and the government itself) right now.

This approach is specially destructive in the key areas of the government like certain ministries...where we need ppl who know a thing or two...instead we have again unqualified ppl.

In short u can see that there is no planning for any long term issues that the nation would face...like severe water shortages. Instead u would see them trying to fulfill electricity shortage, which shouldn't have been a problem in the first place if previous governments had done their job of long term planning.

It's all just "give me ur vote and I'll fix the problem u r facing right now"...and then there's a half-assed attempt at solving that problem mostly to win the next election...that about sums up Nawaz Sharifs way of government

In case of PPP/MQM/PML-Q it's just "hey I can't believe these idiots elected us...well let's take advantage of their mistake to the fullest and loot anything and everything we can"

Imran Khan(PTI) remains to be seen...but I'm not expecting anything different bcuz he let in lotas of PPP and other idiots into his party.

Just remember N league moto is privatisation, they don't put their own people in PIA etc That's what PPP does. N want to privatise as much as possible so political parties can't take advantage of public companies.

 

[Cookie Monster]

Just remember N league moto is privatisation, they don't put their own people in PIA etc That's what PPP does. N want to privatise as much as possible so political parties can't take advantage of public companies.

But they don't have to privatize it...they can clean it up and make it profitable again. Look at China's government run institutions...most of them have become giants and churn out a ton of profit. There's pros and cons to privatization of these government agencies but I'm personally not in favor of it.

What bugs me the most is that the same elites who r responsible for doing this to PIA/Railway/etc are the ones that r best suited to profit from the privatization of these institutions. They r gonna use the money they stole to buy their shares of these government agencies after they've made them worthless...it just gets on my nerves.

 

[Shahzaz ud din]

U didnt get my point im saying that he need some serious people not shity people.
He has my vote but he need to change his team. we all now that he is good leader but we also now that his team members are very very corrupt people.
Hope now u get my point.

Kindly name at least ten seriouse people whom we can request to join PTI
Today election is being held in karachi.PTI candidate is well educated person of very good repo.Let us see how many people will vote for him being a seriouse candidate.