Afghan officials voice scant remorse to Pakistan

[Bhairava]

@blain2 -

Your assumption that Pashtuns of Afghanistan are any bit friendly or subservient to Pak than the Tajiks is false. Infact it is not the Tajiks who think Pakistan occupies a part of their "Afghania" & Afghanistan stretches from Attock to Herat.

The Talibs maybe temporarily aligned to you as their interests also match with yours, but not the common war-wary Afghan - be it a Pashtun,Tajik,Uzbek or a Hazara.

The Talibs are what they are - scum.

 

[blain2]

In any insurgency prone areas, fighters aallied to one leader call their leader 'general'. 'Col' etc. Nothing great. i's still better than the 'Amir-ul-Momineen' that Mullah Omar fancied himself and whom you supported.

But still my question is not answered as how people decide the person in question is a NA person and not a Pashtun ?

Infact Pashtuns of Afg hate Pak the most as they think your country is occupying a part of their land. Go figure.

I have met enough Afghan Pashtuns to know that what you say is not exactly true. I know that some Pashtuns hold Ghaffar Khan views about KP and Afghanistan and do blame Pakistan, yet I can also tell you that a similar number or even more Pashtuns in Pakistan and Afghanistan hold very friendly opinion. However most Pashtuns realize what Pakistan does for them and that is that Pakistan actually advocates for Pashtuns more than what the Pashtuns get to do on their own in Afghanistan. In addition to that, Pakistan has a very open policy towards the Pashtuns in terms of their flow back and forth, holding properties inside of Pakistan and running a business from Pakistan into Afghanistan.

Most of the for-show demonstrations in Kabul are paid up deals with people showing up, yelling anti-Pakistan slogans, downing a few naans and qorma and then going off their way. This is the way the business is done. The same chap in the evening is visiting his uncle or aunt in Peshawar the next day. Such is the way things are done in this part of the world.

 

[blain2]

@blain2 -

Your assumption that Pashtuns of Afghanistan are any bit friendly or subservient to Pak than the Tajiks is false. Infact it is not the Tajiks who think Pakistan occupies a part of their "Afghania" & Afghanistan stretches from Attock to Herat.

The Talibs maybe temporarily aligned to you as their interests also match with yours, but not the common war-wary Afghan - be it a Pashtun,Tajik,Uzbek or a Hazara.

The Talibs are what they are - scum.

Pashtuns are not a new phenomena known to us only since the arrival of the Taliban. They have been a part of the Pakistani identity since the very beginning of the country as you are well aware.

As I have already mentioned, the Ghaffar Khan and Wali Khan Pashtuns exist obviously, but Pakistan offers what GK/WK did not, which is better upward economic mobility and integration of the Pashtuns in the national fabric of Pakistan. By doing so, Pakistan has managed the challenges internally and will do so with the Afghan Pashtuns (at the end of the day, the Pashtuns in Pakistan dwarf those in Afghanistan) and there are so many intermarriages and relations that this issue of "Pashtunistan" is a literary discussion. Pakistan offers the Pashtun what they would want in Pashtunistan in any case.

At the end of the day, we will always have our detractors in the Afghan Pashtun community, but overall, we have enough linkages to pacify them.

The Talibs are what they are - scum.

Don't mind me saying that, but they may feel the very same about you. They are rough, they are extreme, but they also are a reality and these simple denunciations "scum etc." don't negate the fact that they are a major party in that region with whom talks will have to be held and with whom deals would have to be made.

 

[Bhairava]

Pashtuns are not a new phenomena ...............

...............Pakistan offers the Pashtun what they would want in Pashtunistan in any case.

I thought the talk was about Pashtuns in Afghanistan and not Pakistan. I know most of the Pashtuns in Pak are patriotic pakistanis and I'm not disputing it.

At the end of the day, we will always have our detractors in the Afghan Pashtun community, but overall, we have enough linkages to pacify them.

You think so, that you have connections to pacify them. But most of them are sick of these Talibs ruling them like animals and the immediate thing they connect with Talibs is the ISI & Pakistan.

Most of the Afghan Pashtuns have still not reconciled to the Durand line and you are not doing yourslef any favour by favouring the Pashtuns over the other communities who atleast recognize the international sanctity of the Durand Line.

Also at the end of the day if you think the Afghan Pashtuns will be any bit subservient to you than these Tajiks or Uzbeks you are only mistaken. Resentment for Pakistan runs deep in Afghanistan and you people have only your policies towards them to blame for that. Not the other way around.

---------- Post added at 10:49 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:47 AM ----------

Don't mind me saying that, but they may feel the very same about you. They are rough, they are extreme, but they also are a reality and these simple denunciations "scum etc." don't negate the fact that they are a major party in that region with whom talks will have to be held and with whom deals would have to be made.

They may rule, they may cook I don't care. But a group that believes in ethnic,religious superiority, violently persecutes the others, is highly miso-gynist and is medieval in its approach will always be scum to me.

 

[chava]

^^Just because a majority community (Taliban) are filled with terrorists there is no need to align with them. Aligning with them is like saying majority of govt officials are corrupt so we will also be corrupt and support it.
Taliban are ideologically wrong. They have caused untold hardships in afg. If you have principles of " do the right thing" you would not support them. But if you just want to be on top then there is short term gain in supporting them.

 

[Areesh]

Resentment for Pakistan runs deep in Afghanistan and you people have only your policies towards them to blame for that. Not the other way around.

Really?? And how can you say that genius?

 

[Majnun]

Who cares what the Afghans say?

 

[Majnun]

They are anti pak only because you guys are hell bent on afghani destruction and ruling and dominating them.
You guys still believe in ruling over foreign countries and such .
The way that afghan society has been destroyed by Pakistan and Taliban since1992 is beyond description.
Even now you guys support the Taliban instead if killing them.
So naturally they are anti pak.

---------- Post added at 09:18 AM ---------- Previous post was at 09:16 AM ----------


Americans killed your men. Why take it out on afg. Ridiculous. No wonder pak is considered a terrorist nation

Yes, of course, and it is only the Indians who are trying, in the face of impossible odds of the devil Pakistanis, to work for the betterment of the Afghans. India has little personal interest in Afghanistan, all they want is a peaceful country, so Afghans can sleep easy at night, without the threat of evil Pakistani elements attacking them and picking up their women and children (a very typical method of the Northern Alliance and warlords like Masood).
And Pakistan is not considered a terrorist nation, whereas India is reviled by all its neighbours.

 

[blain2]

^^Just because a majority community (Taliban) are filled with terrorists there is no need to align with them. Aligning with them is like saying majority of govt officials are corrupt so we will also be corrupt and support it.
Taliban are ideologically wrong. They have caused untold hardships in afg. If you have principles of " do the right thing" you would not support them. But if you just want to be on top then there is short term gain in supporting them.

Taliban are idelogically wrong to you, I have my differences with their interpretations, but they find support and succor among their fellow Pashtuns inside of Afghanistan and in Pakistan's north west. So your views or my views don't really mean much to them as they have takers of their views amongst a large population of their own people. This is the simple reality of the situation. Doing the right thing is to get over with the occupation!! That is the biggest right that could be done to undo the wrong here. Bullying the UN, partly in sympathy after 9/11 attacks, into approval for attack and occupation of Afghanistan was never the right thing to do. What you have now is a genuine resistance. It is extreme and it is puritanical and those who have occupied Afghanistan have abetted the growth of this resistance to its current manifestation.

Pakistan cannot look at things with a short term lense just because we have to live here after all of the overstaying visitors leave. So our policies will adjust accordingly.

 

[chava]

Yes, of course, and it is only the Indians who are trying, in the face of impossible odds of the devil Pakistanis, to work for the betterment of the Afghans. India has little personal interest in Afghanistan, all they want is a peaceful country, so Afghans can sleep easy at night, without the threat of evil Pakistani elements attacking them and picking up their women and children (a very typical method of the Northern Alliance and warlords like Masood).
And Pakistan is not considered a terrorist nation, whereas India is reviled by all its neighbours.

True india is reviled by neighbors, but Pakistan by the whole world

 

[blain2]

I thought the talk was about Pashtuns in Afghanistan and not Pakistan. I know most of the Pashtuns in Pak are patriotic pakistanis and I'm not disputing it.



You think so, that you have connections to pacify them. But most of them are sick of these Talibs ruling them like animals and the immediate thing they connect with Talibs is the ISI & Pakistan.

Most of the Afghan Pashtuns have still not reconciled to the Durand line and you are not doing yourslef any favour by favouring the Pashtuns over the other communities who atleast recognize the international sanctity of the Durand Line.

Also at the end of the day if you think the Afghan Pashtuns will be any bit subservient to you than these Tajiks or Uzbeks you are only mistaken. Resentment for Pakistan runs deep in Afghanistan and you people have only your policies towards them to blame for that. Not the other way around.

---------- Post added at 10:49 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:47 AM ----------



They may rule, they may cook I don't care. But a group that believes in ethnic,religious superiority, violently persecutes the others, is highly miso-gynist and is medieval in its approach will always be scum to me.

First of all, your use of terms like "most of the.." hardly makes up for a fact. Its your opinion and that is it.

Outside of the elite in Kabul, most Pashtuns in Afghanistan are sick and tired of the occupation. They will never say no to economic development, but they also don't like being occupied.

"But a group that believes in ethnic,religious superiority, violently persecutes the others, is highly miso-gynist and is medieval in its approach will always be scum to me. "

*All of us have been guilty of this at one time or another. The Pashtuns say the very same about the Tajiks and Uzbeks, the other medieval bunch that your government is so cozy with. So lets not get into these high and mighty moral judgments. The Pashtuns were on the receiving end of the persecution at the hands of the Russians and then the other ethnic groups.

*Looking back at the history of even Hinduism, we find stories of domination of other peoples by Hindu kings on the basis of religious and ethnic superiority. So its all relative.

---------- Post added at 12:46 AM ---------- Previous post was at 12:44 AM ----------

True india is reviled by neighbors, but Pakistan by the whole world

Most in the world don't care. We are not that important to be reviled by the world.

 

[fatman17]

the reactions of the afghan officials (tajik/uzbek) are understandable and come as no surprise - they are our enemies - simple as that.

 

[Bhairava]

First of all, your use of terms like "most of the.." hardly makes up for a fact. Its your opinion and that is it.

These terms are subjective and everyone only has an opinion. But some times profession polls are conducted and that should give you an indication, if not the ground reality.

Also I have met my fair share of Afghans in India & abroad and I guess I know what I'm speaking.

Outside of the elite in Kabul, most Pashtuns in Afghanistan are sick and tired of the occupation. They will never say no to economic development, but they also don't like being occupied.

Pakistan too is considered an occupier there. When will you people realize that ? The term occupier to you ends with NATO/ISAF..but for them it extends to Islamabad too.

*All of us have been guilty of this at one time or another. The Pashtuns say the very same about the Tajiks and Uzbeks, the other medieval bunch that your government is so cozy with. So lets not get into these high and mighty moral judgments. The Pashtuns were on the receiving end of the persecution at the hands of the Russians and then the other ethnic groups.

No one says except Taliban everyone are saintly over there...but others were indeed saints when compared to these medieval barbarians. And if you have any problem with the terminology I use, ask the resident Afghans here. If they disagree, I will gladly take back my words.

*Looking back at the history of even Hinduism, we find stories of domination of other peoples by Hindu kings on the basis of religious and ethnic superiority. So its all relative.

I thought we were talking about these medieval mindsets in 21st century, as late as 2001 and not some 'ancient Hindu Raja'.

 

[OrionHunter]

The Afghan police general watched on television as Pakistani soldiers solemnly saluted the coffins of 24 of their comrades who were killed in a U.S. military airstrike Saturday. The general stood up in disgust. “That’s the best thing America has done in 10 years here,” he said.

This bl00dy well sucks!! How can an officer in the exalted rank of a 'General' even think of this comment? Soldiers are soldiers. They fight the enemy but they respect the dead. Even enemy soldiers are considered brothers in arms. Both sides are only doing their duty of defending their respective countries.

Here's a pic of Pakistani soldiers being given their last rites by Indian soldiers. And that's because in death, there are no enemies...

I shudder to think what would happen once the ISAF departs Afghanistan. Methinks there would be a veritable civil war breaking out, descending into chaos. It seems the polarization of Afghan society is complete.

 

[F.O.X]

Mr Police General of Afg be careful time's are bad these days , who knows what might happen to you today tomorrow or the day after tomorrow.

You just have chosen the wrong side for wrong reasons .