Aero India 2013 to lack some glitter

[arp2041]

The biannual Aero India editions over the last decade were the most sought after destination for the world’s top armament manufacturers to showcase their latest combat aircraft as India was looking to buy 126 Medium Multi-Role Combat Aircraft (MMRCA).

Contenders for the $11 billion MMRCA deal used to bring their aircraft to the Air Force Station Yelahanka, the venue of the Aero India, for aircraft displays to woo not just government officials and defence experts, but also celebrities.

However, with India recently choosing the Rafale and with the ministry of defence on the verge of inking the MMRCA contract with French aircraft manufacturer Dassault Aviation, the ninth edition of the Aero India, which is slated to take place from February 6 to 10, will not see the participation of the world’s most advanced combat/stealth aircraft.

US Aerospace major Lockheed Martin has already confirmed to DNA that it would not be showcasing its F-22 Raptor or the F-35 Lightning II.

“Lockheed Martin will not be bringing the F-22 Raptor or the F-35 Lightning II for Aero India 2013. We are still awaiting details on displays which will be finalised after January 1,” was Lockheed Martin’s response.

While the F-22 Raptor is the only operational fifth generation aircraft in the world today, the F-35 Lightning II is still under development.

Lockheed Martin’s decision to not to showcase the F-35 Lightning II at the Aero India 2013 is surprising, considering that the US has for some time been persuading India to buy this aircraft which is still under development.

After the US lost the MMRCA contract (two US aircraft, F-16 Super Viper and F/A-18 Super Hornet were among the six contenders), the US Senate Armed Services Committee had directed its defence department to study the feasibility of offering the F-35 to India.
The only other fifth-generation aircraft in the world today is the Chinese J-20. But China historically has never showcased any of its products in India.

Aero India 2013 to lack some glitter | idrw.org

 

[Abingdonboy]

This was always going to happen with the result of the MMRCA being declared- past editions have been dominated by MMRCA contenders. I don't know where this talk of F-22/35 has come from, I never heard this was on the table! But we all know the second the IN starts perusing F-35 procurement seriously the next Aero India will have the F-35 front and centre! Aero India existed before the MMRCA and will exist after it, it is still one of the major airshows on the planet and is only going to grow in scale over time.

 

[arp2041]

This was always going to happen with the result of the MMRCA being declared- past editions have been dominated by MMRCA contenders. I don't know where this talk of F-22/35 has come from, I never heard this was on the table! But we all know the second the IN starts perusing F-35 procurement seriously the next Aero India will have the F-35 front and centre! Aero India existed before the MMRCA and will exist after it, it is still one of the major airshows on the planet and is only going to grow in scale over time.

But i am surprised that they were expecting IAF to select the MMRCA ac by it's "ramp walk" in Aero India over the years, IAF was always going to select the ac as per the technical requirements & not how much crowd the ac attracted in Aero India.

F-35 is seriously on the cards as far as IN is concerned since it is going to select a MMRCA for IAC-2, the race is clearly b/w F-35 & Rafale-M, but i think b'coz of concerns of American sanctions, IN will go for Rafale-Ms instead.

P.S. Why not a prototype of PAK-FA in Aero India?? i think it should have been there.

 

[IndoUS]

F-22 is out of the question but F-35 might be a choice for the IN in the future so we will have to wait and see. I am hoping to see if US/EU/Russia showcase any new aircrafts or in case of Russia any news on the super SU-30MKI.

 

[Skull and Bones]

But i am surprised that they were expecting IAF to select the MMRCA ac by it's "ramp walk" in Aero India over the years, IAF was always going to select the ac as per the technical requirements & not how much crowd the ac attracted in Aero India.

F-35 is seriously on the cards as far as IN is concerned since it is going to select a MMRCA for IAC-2, the race is clearly b/w F-35 & Rafale-M, but i think b'coz of concerns of American sanctions, IN will go for Rafale-Ms instead.

Don't break my heart too soon. Lets wait for official confirmation from the Mod about choosing F-35 or any other fighter.

 

[arp2041]

Don't break my heart too soon. Lets wait for official confirmation from the Mod about choosing F-35 or any other fighter.

haha....mate, i hope u don't want to see an american fighter in the IN inventory, u certainly know what are the cons of that.

 

[Abingdonboy]

But i am surprised that they were expecting IAF to select the MMRCA ac by it's "ramp walk" in Aero India over the years, IAF was always going to select the ac as per the technical requirements & not how much crowd the ac attracted in Aero India.

F-35 is seriously on the cards as far as IN is concerned since it is going to select a MMRCA for IAC-2, the race is clearly b/w F-35 & Rafale-M, but i think b'coz of concerns of American sanctions, IN will go for Rafale-Ms instead.

P.S. Why not a prototype of PAK-FA in Aero India?? i think it should have been there.

It's just about public awareness. I had heard that the MMRCA contenders before 2011 had spent million in USD on advertisments across India in magazines, on buses,on bilboards etc about their fighters. Yes, it is a little pointless because it is not like those making the descion on the MMRCA were going to be swayed one iota by such ads.


+ I'd say we can expect the PAK-FA/FGFA at Aero India pretty soon (maybe 2015) also. Maybe Dassualt will surprise us at AI 2013- show some gratitude, raise awareness of their beast that will be in IAF service before too long.


+ wrt F-35, US and India are getting closer all the time so who knows. I think the Indin military/MoD/GoI are actually aware that it isn't the 90s anymore and the threat of sanctions on a nation like India are getting slimmer by the day. We will see.

 

[COLDHEARTED AVIATOR]

I am anyways not going this time so this was understandable.

 

[Tshering22]

F-35 is seriously on the cards as far as IN is concerned since it is going to select a MMRCA for IAC-2, the race is clearly b/w F-35 & Rafale-M, but i think b'coz of concerns of American sanctions, IN will go for Rafale-Ms instead.

F-35 was clearly rejected by the MOD. Just google it if you don't believe me. They don't want it for two reasons:

1- The jet will come after 5 years, which will start with member countries (the orders of all 8 countries combined are massive). This means we will have to wait beyond 2020 to get hold of the jet; a time period when PAKFA will be in service and AMCA will be on the verge of production.

2- Too many strings attached. Even if we order 50 jets, it is too less to demand a tech transfer, autonomy of use and of course, autonomy of foreign policy.

While Navy is progressive compared to Army and IAF, they're not myopic for overlooking such critical factors.

Although if we take Vikrant II's time being taken right now, I have a feeling that INS Vishal may join us only in 2022 which again will be a ripe moment for our own AMCA.

Who knows that IAF may prefer a mix of PAK FA and AMCA while Navy would go for AMCA as the mainstay high-end jet with the MiG-29Ks and N-Tejas as support?

That will be amazing if it goes well.

P.S. Why not a prototype of PAK-FA in Aero India?? i think it should have been there.

It is only in the 3rd prototype with marginal improvements. Raptor showed up only after its production version came out.

PAK FA may not be in for next year.

However, Tejas will make a grand debut as a full production jet.

 

[arp2041]

F-35 was clearly rejected by the MOD. Just google it if you don't believe me. They don't want it for two reasons:

1- The jet will come after 5 years, which will start with member countries (the orders of all 8 countries combined are massive). This means we will have to wait beyond 2020 to get hold of the jet; a time period when PAKFA will be in service and AMCA will be on the verge of production.

2- Too many strings attached. Even if we order 50 jets, it is too less to demand a tech transfer, autonomy of use and of course, autonomy of foreign policy.

While Navy is progressive compared to Army and IAF, they're not myopic for overlooking such critical factors.

Although if we take Vikrant II's time being taken right now, I have a feeling that INS Vishal may join us only in 2022 which again will be a ripe moment for our own AMCA.

Who knows that IAF may prefer a mix of PAK FA and AMCA while Navy would go for AMCA as the mainstay high-end jet with the MiG-29Ks and N-Tejas as support?

That will be amazing if it goes well.



It is only in the 3rd prototype with marginal improvements. Raptor showed up only after its production version came out.

PAK FA may not be in for next year.

However, Tejas will make a grand debut as a full production jet.

I know buddy, IAF will never go for F-35s since it has FGFA & AMCA to look upto, but the issue is that IN can still consider F-35s, since IAC-2 will only be inducted post 2020, but there will be no fifth gen ac for navy by than, FGFA will only be started to induct in IAF inventory, chance of naval version will be very far, as for AMCA, till now it's designs are not final yet, don't know when it will be fructify, even if does first AF version will be produced again possibility of N-AMCA is very far (post 2025 only), so IN will be feeling a gap which can force them to go for F-35s, though i'll prefer a French 4.5 gen ac over American 5th gen any day.

 

[Kompromat]

How many Indian friends here would like to see JF-17 Thunder & K-8 Sherdils team at Aero India - Just out of curiosity

 

[arp2041]

How many Indian friends here would like to see JF-17 Thunder & K-8 Sherdils team at Aero India - Just out of curiosity

 

[Cherokee]

How many Indian friends here would like to see JF-17 Thunder & K-8 Sherdils team at Aero India - Just out of curiosity

Would Love too

 

[Abingdonboy]

F-35 was clearly rejected by the MOD. Just google it if you don't believe me. They don't want it for two reasons:

1- The jet will come after 5 years, which will start with member countries (the orders of all 8 countries combined are massive). This means we will have to wait beyond 2020 to get hold of the jet; a time period when PAKFA will be in service and AMCA will be on the verge of production.

2- Too many strings attached. Even if we order 50 jets, it is too less to demand a tech transfer, autonomy of use and of course, autonomy of foreign policy.

While Navy is progressive compared to Army and IAF, they're not myopic for overlooking such critical factors.

Although if we take Vikrant II's time being taken right now, I have a feeling that INS Vishal may join us only in 2022 which again will be a ripe moment for our own AMCA.

Who knows that IAF may prefer a mix of PAK FA and AMCA while Navy would go for AMCA as the mainstay high-end jet with the MiG-29Ks and N-Tejas as support?

That will be amazing if it goes well.



It is only in the 3rd prototype with marginal improvements. Raptor showed up only after its production version came out.

PAK FA may not be in for next year.

However, Tejas will make a grand debut as a full production jet.

F-35 is a no go for the IAF-fact. The reports of MoD refusing the F-35 only apply in the context of the IAF/MMRCA. The IN is still very much interested in the F-35. The IAC-2 will be in operation by 2022-5 and as such the N-AMCA is a non-starter for IAC-2 as the AMCA is a LONG way out let alone a naval varient. Maybe if the N-AMCA was designed as a naval fighter from the outset like the F-18. A N-FGFA/PAK-FA similarliy is some time away and this requirement hasn't even been expressed yet. In that sense there are only a few viable options for the IN, namely the F-35C,Rafale-M and (possibly but unlikely) SeaGripen. As such the IN has to decide whether it wants a 5th gen fighter or a 4.5++ gen fighter that will be in service for 30+ years. And the IN does have to decide realtivly soon (by atlleast 2017) because you can;t just build a carrier and not know what air group will be operated from it and I don't see the IN waiting around hoping the N-AMCA comes around.

How many Indian friends here would like to see JF-17 Thunder & K-8 Sherdils team at Aero India - Just out of curiosity

Seeing JF-17s parked alongside LCAs would be quite a treat!

 

[arp2041]

F-35 is a no go for the IAF-fact. The reports of MoD refusing the F-35 only apply in the context of the IAF/MMRCA. The IN is still very much interested in the F-35. The IAC-2 will be in operation by 2022-5 and as such the N-AMCA is a non-starter for IAC-2 as the AMCA is a LONG way out let alone a naval varient. Maybe if the N-AMCA was designed as a naval fighter from the outset like the F-18. A N-FGFA/PAK-FA similarliy is some time away and this requirement hasn't even been expressed yet. In that sense there are only a few viable options for the IN, namely the F-35C,Rafale-M and (possibly but unlikely) SeaGripen. As such the IN has to decide whether it wants a 5th gen fighter or a 4.5++ gen fighter that will be in service for 30+ years. And the IN does have to decide realtivly soon (by atlleast 2017) because you can;t just build a carrier and not know what air group will be operated from it and I don't see the IN waiting around hoping the N-AMCA comes around.


Seeing JF-17s parked alongside LCAs would be quite a treat!

I think since the design of AMCA is still not in place, it would be a better option to go for a Naval AMCA rather than AF version, we all know that IN has better management capabilities as far as the indigenous production is concerned, so why not give the project of AMCA to IN completely?? turning a naval version into AF version would not be as difficult a task as opposite of it, also IAF is in no hurry for another 5th gen ac since it is already in process of inducting FGFA by 2020 or so. It will be IN that would be in problems if in case we go for AF version with naval version only possible post 2025.