Adolf Hitler and the side of History never before seen.

[FullMetalJacket]

my most favrt topic....i saw many documentaries on nazi germany and most documentaries show hitler a evil...one thing the maker of documentaries forgot that how americans dropped bombs in japan and killed a lot of peoples including innocent peoples ....y not americans fought conventional war with them...and also because of ww2 hindustan seperated and become pakistan and india ....

history is written by the victors

 

[uzair ramay]

by the way who was the winner....

 

[Desert Fox]

@Desert Fox

Anyone has the episode 23?

I believe it hasn't been uploaded yet, as the YT member who uploads the video has posted on his page the following:

"Part 23 delayed due to the updating of earlier episodes."

Truthwillout1003 - YouTube

 

[Desert Fox]

Those South Asians than need to be educated so they can realize what a monster Hitler was. WW2 witnessed atrocities never seen before in history of mankind, and Hitler shares the blame for dehumanizing the war.

Although Hitler wasn't perfect, after all no human is. However to put the sole blame of the war on Hitler and make him accountable for the lions share of the casualties is complete injustice.

Hitler was used as a scapegoat after the war by the victorious allies for even the atrocities they themselves committed. A good example of this is the Katyn Forest Massacre.


During the Second World War, the largest contributing force to the Axis Armies on the Eastern Front, only second to the Germans themselves, were the people of Soviet Russia, Ukraine, Belarus, the Baltics, the Crimea, and even from the Caucasus.

More than 1,000,000 (enlisted, real number probably 2,000,000 or more) Soviet people fought under the Axis banner against the Red plague known as Communism. THE LARGEST DEFECTION IN MILITARY HISTORY.

Even when it became apparent that by 1944, the tide of war on the Eastern Front had turned against Germany, hundreds of thousands of Soviet men continued to join the Axis ranks, so much so, that the German high command ordered an end to the distribution of Pamphlets encouraging Red Army soldiers to defect to the Axis side since every day thousands of Red Army soldiers were joining the Axis ranks, that the fear of them outnumbering the German and other Axis troops became a reality as well as the over stretching of available equipment and supplies.


Secondly, regarding the Russian/Soviet civilian and non-combatant casualties on the Eastern Front, and i will quote a Russian Historian:

The "secret war" Tolstoy goes on to vividly describe was the fierce campaign Stalin waged against the Russian population - a struggle which often took priority over pressing military problems. For example, Stalin tied up much of the rail network in western Russia with slave trains of captives from the Baltic states, instead of devoting all rolling stock to the reinforcement of the frontlines. At L'Vov, where the Soviet 4th Army was fighting desperately to prevent its surrender, Stalin's major concern was that the NKVD finish liquidating potential Ukrainian opponents of the regime rather than order the local security forces to join in the battle against advancing Axis units. While Stalin pleaded with the British to rush more aid and take further action, the NKVD labor camp guards were doubled in number from 500,000 to one million heavily armed men.

Standard treatments of this period always claim that the Soviet Union lost over 20 million people during the Second World War. Tolstoy makes a convincing case that the actual total is probably closer to 30 million, maybe even more - with about a third of these deaths attributable to Axis actions. The blame for as many as 23 million deaths is placed with Stalin and his NKVD henchmen.

Casualty figures for the Eastern Front have been estimated as follows: two and a half million German soldiers died in the East. It is believed that three Red Army men died for every German soldier killed. Of those 7,500,000 military deaths, approximately three million Russians died as POWs.

Tolstoy's analysis of these statistics does much to revise our understanding of the war on the Eastern Front, as he demonstrates that these high Russian military casualties were largely due to the Soviets' crude methods of waging war. 'Penal battalions" composed of "enemies of the people" (i.e., inmates of prisons and camps, and luckless peasants, including women and children) were hurled in waves against German defensive positions. Frequently unarmed and at times deprived of camouflaged uniforms to better draw enemy fire, they were often used to clear minefields. With NKVD machine-gunners poised behind them, they were forced across minefields until a path was cleared. The wounded were killed off by the NKVD. General Ratov, chief of the Soviet Military Mission to Britain, actually declined an offer of British mine-detectors, remarking that "in the Soviet Union we use people." SMERSH (from the initials "Death to Spies"), the NKVD's special murder arm made famous by Ian Fleming in his James Bond thrillers, was created in 1942 as an additional guard on Soviet front-line troops. The NKVD placed large heavily-armed formations at the rear of Soviet units to discourage withdrawals and to pick off "stragglers" and "cowards." In a number of instances, NKVD units fought pitched battles with Red Army detachments trying to retreat in the face of superior enemy forces. Stalin continued to purge his armed forces even as the Axis advanced. It is likely that hundreds of thousands of Russians were killed in such actions.

As for the POWs who died in German captivity, Tolstoy reminds the reader that the Soviet government refused to sign the Geneva Convention on Prisoners of War, refused to cooperate with the International Red Cross (the Nazis allowed the Red Cross to visit concentration camps), and rebuffed German feelers forwarded through neutralist concerning compliance with the Hague Convention. A 1941 directive ordered Red Army men to commit suicide instead of surrender and Soviet law regarded Russian POWs as traitors. Besides their own "penal battalions," the Russians occasionally used POWs to clear minefields.

German attitudes toward the Russians were further colored by evidence of NKVD massacres encountered at such places as L'Vov, Vinnitsa, and Katyn. They found not just piles of corpses, but apparently mass-produced torture instruments, including devices for squeezing the skull, another for the testicles, and tools used to skin prisoners alive. Ice picks, broken bottles, or whatever else was handy or preferred were also used. Tolstoy observes that "Soviet cruelty far outstripped that of National Socialism. . . . Torture in the USSR was (and is) employed on a mass scale as an important punitive means of overawing a resentful population." He goes on to explain that these ghastly scenes of state-sanctioned depravity "confirmed the German view that Bolshevik Russia was irredeemably savage and backward." Considering how civilians and POWs were treated by the Communists, the Germans felt no obligation to show much consideration for Russian POWs. According to the author, there was a purpose behind all of this cruelty:

Stalin went out of his way to invite Nazi ill-treatment and later extermination of Russian prisoners-of-war. . . . It is quite clear, therefore, that the deaths of over three million Russians in German custody was a piece of deliberate Soviet policy, the aim of which was to cause the liquidation of men regarded automatically as political traitors, whilst directing the anger of the Soviet people against the perpetrators of the crime. . . . It should not be forgotten, either, that Soviet cruelty greatly prolonged the conflict, costing all belligerent nations millions of lives. . . . This evidence of how the Soviets treated their own people, coupled with the harsh treatment they visited on prisoners-of-war, was the major cause of Germany's obstinate determination to fight on to the end, long after it had become clear her cause was doomed.

Having accounted for the 7½ million military casualties, Tolstoy states that four million Russian civilians were killed by the Germans (although this includes those involved in anti-Partisan operations, military sieges of such cities as Leningrad, and 750,000 Jews). This leaves 18-20 million additional Russians killed in the course of Stalin's "secret war" against his own subjects.

Book Review: CHARLES LUTTON: Stalin's War: Victims and Accomplices: STALIN'S SECRET WAR by Nikolai Tolstoy



Also, on how Americans were treating German POW's:

Despite the German observance of convention the American forces response was often as summary and as brutal as those practiced by their Soviet allies. Only in cases where large numbers of captured soldiers had been taken were they to be enslaved. If captured in smaller groups the US Army policy was simply to slaughter their captured prisoners where they stood.


On Dachau (Former German concentration camp, at the end of the war it was under American control and held German POW's for eleven years):

Ironically in the light of postwar research it has been revealed that the only atrocities committed at Dachau were those carried out by the victorious allies. Equally ironically this camp was an allied concentration camp (eleven years) for a longer period of time than it was a German administered camp. There, "Three hundred SS camp guards were quickly neutralized." on the orders of General Dwight D. Eisenhower.

The term neutralized of course is a politically correct (or cowardly) way of saying that prisoners-of-war were rounded up and machine-gunned in groups. Accounts of the mass murder of prisoners-of-war at Dachau have been described in at least two books; 'The Day of the Americans by Nerin Gun, Fleet Publishing Company, New York, and, Deliverance Day - The Last Hours at Dachau by Michael Selzer; Lippincot, Philadelphia

These books describe how German prisoners were collected in groups, placed against a wall and methodically machine-gunned by American soldiers while some were still standing, hands raised in surrender. American soldiers casually climbed over the still twitching bodies, killing the wounded. Whilst this was happening, American photographers were taking pictures of the massacres that have since been published.

http://www.whale.to/b/walsh11.html

And this is how Germans were treating their POW's:

By contrast the German armed forces behaved impeccably towards their prisoners-of-war. "The most amazing thing about the atrocities in this war is that there have been so few of them. I have come up against few instances where the Germans have not treated prisoners according to the rules, and respected the Red Cross reported respected newspaper The Progressive February, 4th1945.

Allan Wood, London Correspondent of the London Express agreed. "The Germans even in their greatest moments of despair obeyed the Convention in most respects. True it is that there were front line atrocities - passions run high up there - but they were incidents, not practices, and misadministration of their American prison camps was very uncommon." Lieutenant Newton L. Marguiles echoed his words.

US Assistant Judge Advocate, Jefferson Barracks, April 27th1945. "It is true that the Reich exacted forced labour from foreign workers, but it is also true that, they were for the most part paid and fed well."

"I think some of the persons found themselves better off than at any time in their lives before." added Dr.James K.Pollack, Allied Military Government.

"What did the Germans do to get efficient production from forced labour that we were not able to do with Germans working down the mines? They fed their help and fed them well." Said Max H. Forester, Chief of AMG's Coal and Mining Division in July 1946.

HOW ALLIES TREATED GERMAN POWs by Michael Walsh

Of course, as the American and British bomber aircraft blew up every German bridge, railroad, town, city, communications center, HQ, hospitals, cities, villages, factories, ports, and airfields, the conditions in labor/concentration camps became dire for the POW's since basic necessities were no longer available due to the crippling of the supply and transportation network. Add to that the typhus epidemic which spread throughout Europe at that time which claimed even more lives.

Thus all of those corpses and starved bodies they show you in the photos and films were mostly the result of allied air raids on German transportation networks. Millions of decomposing bodies increase the likely hood of spread of disease.

 

[uzair ramay]

i really respect hitler because he was a patriotic man because of him the german economy become strong.but the americans and brits showed him evil ....i think americans were evil at that tym who dropped 2 atomic bombs on japan although japs were fighting conventional war.........when i joined defence.pk my avtar was hitlers photo with nazi solute after 3 or 4 days web master bhai messaged me to chane my avtar otherwise we will ban u or blok u because i m disgracing the flag...tell me how the picture of hitler disgracing the flag he was a patriotic man in my opinion who fought for his nation till his last breath...

 

[Desert Fox]

Part 24 of the series is now available:

"The primary issue over which World War II was fought was to determine which money system was to survive. At bottom it was not a war between Germany and the so-called allies. Primarily it was war to the death between Germany and the International Money Power." --William Gayley Simpson, 'Which Way Western Man' (p.642)

 

[root]

Hey Nazi A$$hole! You have no sympathy for victims of holocaust?PS: The Desert Fox you so greatly admire was not a Nazi and actually hated Hitler's policies.

i really respect hitler because he was a patriotic man because of him the german economy become strong.but the americans and brits showed him evil ....i think americans were evil at that tym who dropped 2 atomic bombs on japan although japs were fighting conventional war.........when i joined defence.pk my avtar was hitlers photo with nazi solute after 3 or 4 days web master bhai messaged me to chane my avtar otherwise we will ban u or blok u because i m disgracing the flag...tell me how the picture of hitler disgracing the flag he was a patriotic man in my opinion who fought for his nation till his last breath...

I feel sorry for people like you.

 

[Desert Fox]

Hey Nazi A$$hole!

Why are you obsessed with the word a$$hole?? You must take it up the rear end right??

 

[Pakistani E]

Hey Nazi A$$hole! You have no sympathy for victims of holocaust?PS: The Desert Fox you so greatly admire was not a Nazi and actually hated Hitler's policies.


I feel sorry for people like you.

Man I agree with you, I just don't understand this fascination some Pakistanis here have with hitler. How the hell was hitler a patriot? He was a maniac who destroyed his nation. All he did was find a scapegoat for Germany's own failure. I bet most of the love for hitler is due to his hatred for jews.

Why are you obsessed with the word a$$hole?? You must take it up the rear end right??

Can I ask why you love hitler so much?

 

[Jaanbaz]

A Pakistani Neo Nazi? Man this world is full of nutters.

 

[root]

Man I agree with you, I just don't understand this fascination some Pakistanis here have with hitler. How the hell was hitler a patriot? He was a maniac who destroyed his nation. All he did was find a scapegoat for Germany's own failure. I bet most of the love for hitler is due to his hatred for jews.



Can I ask why you love hitler so much?

Funny thing is that these people would have been eliminated by Hitler as they do not belong to the pure race....and Pakistani People like Hitler coz of antisemitism. Pakistanis are Jew Haters (even though they have never met any Jew and love the Arabs who they have met and who regularly abuse and treat Pakistani like slaves).

A Pakistani Neo Nazi? Man this world is full of nutters.

The funny thing is that this Pakistani Neo Nazi would have been executed by the Nazis because he does not belong to the pure race..or he is one of those delusional Northern Pakistani who thinks he is white lol.

 

[Pakistani E]

Funny thing is that these people would have been eliminated by Hitler as they do not belong to the pure race....and Pakistani People like Hitler coz of antisemitism. Pakistanis are Jew Haters (even though they have never met any Jew and love the Arabs who they have met and who regularly abuse and treat Pakistani like slaves).


The funny thing is that this Pakistani Neo Nazi would have been executed by the Nazsis because he does not belong to the pure race..or he is one of those delusional Northern Pakistani who thinks he is white lol.

You are one of the most sensible fellow Pakistanis I have met on this forum.

 

[Jaanbaz]

Funny thing is that these people would have been eliminated by Hitler as they do not belong to the pure race....and Pakistani People like Hitler coz of antisemitism. Pakistanis are Jew Haters (even though they have never met any Jew and love the Arabs who they have met and who regularly abuse and treat Pakistani like slaves).


The funny thing is that this Pakistani Neo Nazi would have been executed by the Nazis because he does not belong to the pure race..or he is one of those delusional Northern Pakistani who thinks he is white lol.

If he was in Germany at the time of Hitler probably would have been picked up and rounded up with the poor Roma gypsies and shot.

You are one of the most sensible fellow Pakistanis I have met on this forum.

I thought it was me.

 

[Pakistani E]

If he was in Germany at the time of Hitler probably would have been picked up and rounded up with the poor Roma gypsies and shot.



I thought it was me.

After me of course.

 

[angeldude13]

always hated that fat b@stard churchill and those fat queens