‘Admitting you are a secularist can get you killed in Pakistan’

[liontk]

I enjoy discussing anything which is of social, political, military interest.

I second your opinion that religion/beliefs are surely a personal matter and thus state should stay away from taking sides..keep religion out of state matters, law and politics.


And like your said " there is no perfect translation " there also no perfect system so far a secular system is near perfect..there could be minor flaws in theory or implementation..that can be taken care of as the system grows and get mature.

Brother you misunderstood me, i am saying the candienne system is islamic though , it does not matter about the label and honestly half the islamic republic are following less islamic criterias as far as right and justice goes. Just because we can't come up with perfect translation does not mean the human gives up but thats is my belief. The candienne system is already following what a model islamic state should be and it is in my opinion a islamic state. You can put whatever label you want on it to personally comfort you but I think my government though not perfect is serving my interests, taking care of my people(citizens), providing a safety net for the less fortunates ones and provides us safety. Secularism is just a label that can be applied to any state but how many countries are truly islamic is the question and for that matter any system. Brother let me reitterate there is no true islamic state but I sincerely believe, we canadienne are the closest to it but again its not perfect but lets strive towards the perfection.

 

[Agnostic_Indian]

No it is not a bad thing but what I am saying is their is no such thing as perfect secularism mostly they get influenced Sir so we Muslims need to establish our Islamic law rather than following lie and crap known as secularism

that's a strange arguments that since a secular system is not flawless because it sometimes get slightly influenced by majorities beliefs thus slightly biased towards majorities beliefs and sensitivities ( which I never denied ) you want to implement a completely biased system..wow! amazing!

 

[Spring Onion]

Muslims have also taken the concept of praying five times a day and using a prayer cap or head-covering while praying from Zoroastrianism.][/I]

Nothing to do with zoroastrianism. At first there were 50 nimaz ( prayer 50 times a day ) fixed by Allah for followers of Last prophet Muhammad (PBUH) during Meraj but then when Prophet Muhammad came to Prophet Issa (AS) [Jesus] , on one of the 7 skies, he (Jesus) asked from our Prophet about the number of prayers fixed for Muslims upon knowing these are 50 the Jesus asked our Prophet to request Allah for lessening these as Ummat e rasool wont be as strong as earlier humanbeings during times of rest of the Prophets. This repeated few times till the number of Prayers reduced to 5 times a by Allah.


Thats how 5 times a day prayers since Islam is a religion of nature and does not ask something which is a burden on human.

 

[Zarvan]

that's a strange arguments that since a secular system is not flawless because it sometimes get slightly influenced by majorities beliefs thus slightly biased towards majorities beliefs and sensitivities ( which I never denied ) you want to implement a completely biased system..wow! amazing!

Yes those who don't know Islamic system likes to talk crap because they don't have anything besides talking crap but we give a dam we have our own complete system and we will implement it and Indians should care about their own internal problems which are increasing by every passing day than telling us what to do

 

[INDIC]

No it is not a bad thing but what I am saying is their is no such thing as perfect secularism mostly they get influenced Sir so we Muslims need to establish our Islamic law rather than following lie and crap known as secularism

Zarvan ji, do you believe that all Human beings are born equal irrespective of religion, caste, creed or skin color.

 

[Zarvan]

This is exactly what the fundamentals thing and the result is for all to see.



Yes this is why kids who have not been to any school but their parents choose to send them for pure religious teaching have done wonders to the world.



Praying five times a day defeminately was.

Over time, Zoroastrians developed the concept of worshipping in temples, sometimes called fire temples. The temples contain an inner sanctum (pavi) or platform where a fire is maintained or placed. This is because Zoroastrians face a source of light when they pray. In temples the source of light is a flame maintained in a fire urn. In certain temples, this fire is kept burning continuously, representing an eternal flame.

The orthodox will pray during each of the five divisions of the day (see our page on the Zoroastrian calendar) or gahs (see our page on the Avesta, scriptures) including reciting a special set of prayers before and after bathing.

Zoroastrians hold that the effectiveness of a person's beliefs is demonstrated in that person's deeds. While praying helps to reaffirm beliefs, a life based on good deeds is prayer in action. Our lives are the temples of our souls. This is a natural progression of the ethical creed of good thoughts, words and deeds, where good deeds are held to be most meritorious.

[Note: The word namaz or namaaz is used in modern Persian to mean prayer. It is derived from namazh, in turn derived from the Middle Persian namaach, a word with roots in the Avestan nemangh. Interestingly, in Avestan nemase-te means 'reverence to you'. Compare with Hindi namaste from Vedic Sanskrit namas-te meaning 'honouring-you'. The word namaz is now also used by Persian and Indo-Pakistani Muslims to mean prayer. Muslims have also taken the concept of praying five times a day and using a prayer cap or head-covering while praying from Zoroastrianism.]

MASHALLAH another post full of ignorance and lies Yes namaz is not the world the word is salah and it is compulsory on Muslims for 5 times a day and by this post you again made it clear who you are thanks good job keep spreading ignorance and by the way method of Salah is found in Hadees

Zarvan ji, do you believe that all Human beings are born equal irrespective of religion, caste, creed or skin color.

What I believe is humans are born without any sin and on fitrah and that is Islam fitrah means nature pure nature

 

[INDIC]

What I believe is humans are born without any sin and on fitrah and that is Islam fitrah means nature pure nature

That's not answer, just tell me do you believe all human beings are born equal irrespective of religion or race.

 

[Agnostic_Indian]

Brother you misunderstood me, i am saying the candienne system is islamic though , it does not matter about the label and honestly half the islamic republic are following less islamic criterias as far as right and justice goes. Just because we can't come up with perfect translation does not mean the human gives up but thats is my belief. The candienne system is already following what a model islamic state should be and it is in my opinion a islamic state. You can put whatever label you want on it to personally comfort you but I think my government though not perfect is serving my interests, taking care of my people(citizens), providing a safety net for the less fortunates ones and provides us safety. Secularism is just a label that can be applied to any state but how many countries are truly islamic is the question and for that matter any system. Brother let me reitterate there is no true islamic state but I sincerely believe, we canadienne are the closest to it.

I don't think Canada implemented sheriya do they ? as far as I understand Canada is more or less a secular country with some leniency towards believers , in particular Christian and jews.

 

[liontk]

@Zarvan, if some indienne members are confused, salah is the self reflection or some say prayer that muslims do 5 times a day to keep themselves on the proper path and committed to lords message. Though sadly in some areas of the world it can become a ritual to the point that some people do not understand what the words mean but simply recite them in a language that they do not understand something like a ritual sadly.
@Zarvan, if some indienne members are confused what he means by salah, salah is the self reflection or some say prayer that muslims do 5 times a day to keep themselves on the proper path and committed to lords message. Though sadly in some areas of the world it can become a ritual to the point that some people do not understand what the words mean but simply recite them in a language that they do not understand something like a ritual sadly.

 

[Agnostic_Indian]

Yes those who don't know Islamic system likes to talk crap because they don't have anything besides talking crap but we give a dam we have our own complete system and we will implement it and Indians should care about their own internal problems which are increasing by every passing day than telling us what to do

when your hypocrisy is exposed out in public, your last resort is " Indians should mind their own business " arguments.

 

[liontk]

I don't think Canada implemented sheriya do they ? as far as I understand Canada is more or less a secular country with some leniency towards believers , in particular Christian and jews.

are you here to troll or understand, shariah to some may be a system but in general term, it mean islamic laws from my readings and while you may put the label secular on canada, to me from islamic laws perspective, it follows the criteria of a islamic states, though some will disagree on the nitty gritty as I have mentioned earlier brother, our state right now provides a system with accessible health care(similar to 2nd caliphate), childcare(similar to rudimentary system in 2nd caliphate), right to liberty, practise to belief, and a proper taxation system(zakat) security and a proper comprehensive justice system(as mandated in islamic system). These point here are some of the things that islamic states should have and canada has those criteria though while its not perfect, we do suffer from social problems and toxic environmental pollution we are causing to this beautiful earth, we have legislations coming up to regulate that hopefully.

 

[Zarvan]

when your hypocrisy is exposed out in public, your last resort is " Indians should mind their own business " arguments.

Sir if I start using language you will not like and I am not hypcrite if you are ............... your problem I am not I believe in Islamic system and will make sure it is implemented and will work for it but guys like you have lost .................... that is why laugh a lot

That's not answer, just tell me do you believe all human beings are born equal irrespective of religion or race.

as children they are born without sin and that time they are equals

 

[Agnostic_Indian]

are you here to troll or understand, shariah to some may be a system but in general term, it mean islamic laws from my readings and while you may put the label secular on canada, to me from islamic laws perspective, it follows the criteria of a islamic states, though some will disagree on the nitty gritty as I have mentioned earlier brother, our state right now provides a system with accessible health care(similar to 2nd caliphate), childcare(similar to rudimentary system in 2nd caliphate), right to liberty, practise to belief, and a proper taxation system(zakat) security and a proper comprehensive justice system(as mandated in islamic system). These point here are some of the things that islamic states should have and canada has those criteria though while its not perfect, we do suffer from social problems and toxic environmental pollution we are causing to this beautiful earth, we have legislations coming up to regulate that hopefully.

which part of my post was a troll post ?
Most of the western secular democratic countries also fulfill the taxation,child care, health care, security etc..that doesn't make it Islamic..if those are part of your Islamic system also then good for you.

 

[INDIC]

as children they are born without sin and that time they are equals

I know what you mean, I am not surprised why are so against secularism. But sir all human beings are born equal and they are equals when they grew into adult irrespective of religion or race.

 

[Agnostic_Indian]

Sir if I start using language you will not like and I am not hypcrite if you are ............... your problem I am not I believe in Islamic system and will make sure it is implemented and will work for it but guys like you have lost .................... that is why laugh a lot


as children they are born without sin and that time they are equals

I exposed the hypocrisy in your arguments through my post #363.