Acoustic Signature of Arihant-class SSBN

[ChineseTiger1986]

and what technology would that be ?

Like I said , even if that number is in fact true , it's still on the same level as Akula sub

The Type 093 is on the same level with Akula, but if we are talking about the Type 093G, then it is another story.

What the Type 093G has improved from the Type 093:

- The pump-jet propulsion
- The VLS
- The coolant pump for the nuclear reactor
- A tilt angle on the lower front of the conning tower

These features were not seen in any Cold War sub.

 

[IND151]

Interesting thread

india had operated charlie class nuclear sub leased from Russia during the cold war

CHEERS

Plus we are operating Chakra II as of now...........

 

[Nilgiri]

These features were not seen in any Cold War sub.

Erm, tomahawk VLS was seen in the post 1982 bloc of LA class subs in USN...still part of the cold war (ended 1991).

Do you have a source for the coolant pump quietening claim? Just interested that's all, should be well within China's technical expertise to do this.

 

[ChineseTiger1986]

Erm, tomahawk VLS was seen in the post 1982 bloc of LA class subs in USN...still part of the cold war (ended 1991).

Do you have a source for the coolant pump quietening claim? Just interested that's all, should be well within China's technical expertise to do this.

Only the USN has started to use the VLS in 1985 with the USS Providence, but this hasn't become mainstream until the mass production of the Virginia class, then the rest of the world also follows the suit.

Even the Seawolf class has omitted the VLS for some unknown reason.

As for the coolant pump, I didn't do the extensive research on this, but based on my common sense, when the machine is not overheating and cooling down, then it should become less nosier than an overheating one.

Especially when the nuclear sub is sailing at the full speed, you need something to cool down the nuclear reactor and prevents it to overheat.

 

[sathya]

Project 75i should include Barracuda sub from France , with indian custamization ie indian reactors and missile..

It will help in upgrading our Arihant clasS

 

[Nilgiri]

As for the coolant pump, I didn't do the extensive research on this, but based on my common sense, when the machine is not overheating and cooling down, then it should become less nosier than an overheating one.

Especially when the nuclear sub is sailing at the full speed, you need something to cool down the nuclear reactor and prevents it to overheat.

Yah but coolant and thus coolant pumps were well established in the cold war subs...they are an essential part of nuclear reactor technology especially in miniaturized form since "passive" coolant is only found in massive civilian reactors.

So what exactly has China developed in coolant technology that surpasses the cold war era subs? If its just pump design, then its hearsay where the exact noise level stands compared to other current major navies tech past and present. Hence why I was wondering if you have a source.

 

[ChineseTiger1986]

Yah but coolant and thus coolant pumps were well established in the cold war subs...they are an essential part of nuclear reactor technology especially in miniaturized form since "passive" coolant is only found in massive civilian reactors.

So what exactly has China developed in coolant technology that surpasses the cold war era subs? If its just pump design, then its hearsay where the exact noise level stands compared to other current major navies tech past and present. Hence why I was wondering if you have a source.

I think it is also about the machine tool to build the nuclear sub.

Nowadays the machine tool is vastly superior to that of the Cold War era, and the smoother gears you got, so less noise for your subs.

Even China's 1970s nuclear subs can stay quiet with zero speed. The problem is when you moving at full speed, the smoother gears you got with made by the superior machine tools, the quieter noise for your sub.

 

[Nilgiri]

Only the USN has started to use the VLS in 1985 with the USS Providence, but this hasn't become mainstream until the mass production of the Virginia class, then the rest of the world also follows the suit.

Even the Seawolf class has omitted the VLS for some unknown reason.

Also now that I think about it, why are we even discussing VLS as part of helping acoustic signature? As far as I can see VLS just increases the availability of weapon options into one platform.

This is part of the reason the Seawolf class doesn't have it, because it was originally envisaged to be purely an ASW role using torpedoes. They decided to not change that at a later stage because they were shelving the program after building 3...and their tomahawks/harpoons get launched through the torpedo tubes too.

I think it is also about the machine tool to build the nuclear sub.

Nowadays the machine tool is vastly superior to that of the Cold War era, and the smoother gears you got, so less noise for your subs.

Even China's 1970s nuclear subs can stay quiet with zero speed. The problem is when you moving at full speed, the smoother gears you got with made by the superior machine tools, the quieter noise for your sub.

OK so you are talking about general advances in engineering worldwide. OK I understand your point. I thought maybe there was rumors China developed a game changer in cooling tech. You are right that the pump noise is an ever present battle....but this information is highly classified and of course navies themselves will want to paint their capability at a level higher than it probably is compared to others. So who knows for sure.

BTW is there any pic or video of a type 93G launching through its VLS?

 

[ChineseTiger1986]

Also now that I think about it, why are we even discussing VLS as part of helping acoustic signature? As far as I can see VLS just increases the availability of weapon options into one platform.

This is part of the reason the Seawolf class doesn't have it, because it was originally envisaged to be purely an ASW role using torpedoes. They decided to not change that at a later stage because they were shelving the program after building 3...and their tomahawks/harpoons get launched through the torpedo tubes too.

Comparing with the VLS, the torpedo tubes cannot launch the missiles at the direction with 360 degrees.

 

[Nilgiri]

Comparing with the VLS, the torpedo tubes cannot launch the missiles at the direction with 360 degrees.

There is the same degree of coverage against above surface targets, its just not as efficient as VLS since the missile must maneuver to vertical in its launch profile. Again what's this got to do with acoustic signature of the submarine though...the submarine has given itself away as soon as it launches anything lol.

 

[ChineseTiger1986]

OK so you are talking about general advances in engineering worldwide. OK I understand your point. I thought maybe there was rumors China developed a game changer in cooling tech. You are right that the pump noise is an ever present battle....but this information is highly classified and of course navies themselves will want to paint their capability at a level higher than it probably is compared to others. So who knows for sure.

BTW is there any pic or video of a type 93G launching through its VLS?

It has been widely reported by many medias with the confirmed satellite pics in 5-7 months ago.

The Type 093G is more elongated compared to the original Type 093, so they believe it is the extra room for the VLS.

 

[Nilgiri]

It has been widely reported by many medias with the confirmed satellite pics in 5-7 months ago.

The Type 093G is more elongated compared to the original Type 093, so they believe it is the extra room for the VLS.

View attachment 255163

Ah I guess thats all we can be satisfied with for now.

Hope PLAN comes with some videos down the road...or even a full scale documentary would be nice

I can understand the reluctance for the time being though, since its a top tier platform in the arsenal. Any country would be wary about revealing too much.

 

[ChineseTiger1986]

Ah I guess thats all we can be satisfied with for now.

Hope PLAN comes with some videos down the road...or even a full scale documentary would be nice

I can understand the reluctance for the time being though, since its a top tier platform in the arsenal. Any country would be wary about revealing too much.

China has purposely leaked some semi-official art concept of the Type 093G in 2 years ago.

Some people can call it a Virginia wannabe, but at least we got what we want.

Compared to the nuclear sub, the aircraft carrier is like a second tier platform when it comes to the importance of the rank.

 

[silent poison]

India never had the experience with the fixed-wing aircrafts before, all they had is the VTOL.

 

[Nilgiri]

Compared to the nuclear sub, the aircraft carrier is like a second tier platform when it comes to the importance of the rank.

Yah I have seen that concept diagram before. I agree nuclear subs are the top tier item in a navy for sure.

One nuclear sub from the USSR effectively countered an entire american carrier group in the bay of bengal in 1971.

Aircraft carriers are for use when you have already established the dominance in a theatre and are basically in the midst of pounding a losing enemy.