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Abandoning the US, More Scientists Go to China

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Abandoning the US, More Scientists Go to China​

By David J. Bier

APRIL 11, 2023 2:17PM

The Organisation for Economic Co‐operation and Development (OECD)—an intergovernmental organization with 38 member countries—has published new data showing that the United States is losing the race for scientific talent to China and other countries. China’s strategy to recruit scientific researchers to work at China‐affiliated universities is working.

In 2021, the United States lost published research scientists to other countries, while China gained more than 2,408 scientific authors. This was a remarkable turnaround from as recently as 2017 when the United States picked up 4,292 scientists and China picked up just 116. As Figure 1 shows, the rest of the OECD and China have both surpassed the United States for net inflow of scientific authors.

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The OECD data are not measuring the movement of non‐Chinese into China or non‐Americans into the United States. The OECD tracks inflows and outflows of published scientific researchers based on changes in institutional affiliation. If an author who was previously affiliated with a different country publishes another article in a new country, the new country will be credited as receiving a new research scientist. The OECD credits more Chinese scientists returning to China for the sudden reversal in Chinese and American inflows.

This is a disturbing trend that started before the pandemic. In fact, it appears to coincide with the Trump administration’s “China Initiative”—more accurately titled the anti‐Chinese initiative. Launched in November 2018, the Department of Justice’s campaign was supposed to combat the overblown threat of intellectual property theft and espionage. In reality, it involved repeatedly intimidating institutions that employed scientists of Chinese heritage and attempting malicious failed prosecutions of scientists who worked with institutions in China. U.S. Attorney Andrew E. Lelling has even admitted that the initiative that he helped lead “created a climate of fear among researchers” and now says, “You don’t want people to be scared of collaboration.”

If Chinese scientists are afraid to work in the United States, that means that the United States will not benefit from their discoveries as much or as quickly as China will. Although the Justice Department claims to have shut down its “China Initiative,” my colleagues doubt that Chinese scientists will be free from unjust scrutiny going forward. The U.S. National Institutes of Health is still bragging about having caused the firings of more than 100 scientists and shutting down research by over 150 scientists—over 80 percent of whom identify as Asian.

The administration continues to maintain contrary to evidence that Chinese industrial espionage—by scientists working in the United States—is a significant threat to the country. Universities and U.S. companies think the far greater threat is losing out on talented Chinese researchers. If the United States wants to deal a blow to the Chinese Communist Party, it should start by trying to fix the damage that it has done in the last few years and liberalize immigration from China.

 
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Tables turned, 1,800 academics relocated to China in 2020, China beat US and became the world’s most attractive destination for scientists

Scientists leave the UK as China overtakes US as most favoured destination​

01 Feb 2022 | News byte

nb0102_1050.jpg


The UK suffered an outflow of nearly 1,300 scientists in 2020, having been a net importer of academics in 2015, the year before the Brexit vote to leave the EU, OECD data shows.

The new analysis of scientific migration data also shows a remarkable turnaround in the fortunes of the US and China.

In 2015, the US was the most attractive scientific destination in the world, enticing close to 3,000 net scientists. But by 2020, that dropped to 1,000.

In the same period, China went from losing scientists, to replacing the US as the world’s most attractive destination. In 2020, a net total nearly 1,800 academics relocated to the country.

 
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while that may be true, modern trends in research are still being set and led by US based researchers. the rest just follow suit. chatGPT is a big example of this. now people may bring new, better LLMs, but the path was shown by US based researchers. until and unless countries start being original with their research, the US will remain the leader.
 
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At least 1,400 US-based ethnic Chinese scientists exited American institutions for mainland China, study reveals​

  • ‘Chilling effect’ felt from Washington policies like Trump-era initiative that targeted suspected theft of technical secrets and intellectual property
  • If fear isn’t alleviated, high risk US will see ‘underutilisation of scientific talent’ and lose out to China and other countries, say authors

Published: 5:00am, 20 Oct, 2022

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At least 1,400 US-based ethnic Chinese scientists switched their affiliation last year from American to Chinese institutions, according to a joint report by academics from Harvard, Princeton and the Massachusetts Institute of Technology.

The high number illustrates a “chilling effect” resulting from US government policies deterring research and academic activity by scientists of Chinese descent and suggests American research could suffer, said the Asian American Scholar Forum, an advocacy group that published the findings.

“We see an increase in that trend,” said Yu Xie, a sociology professor at Princeton University as he presented the report at a webinar on Monday. He added that the US had been “losing talent to China for a while and particularly after the China Initiative”.

The China Initiative, launched in 2018 by the administration of former US president Donald Trump, aimed to fight suspected Chinese theft of technical secrets and intellectual property as competition between the two countries intensified.

While the administration of US President Joe Biden formally ended the programme this year amid concerns over racial bias and a culture of fear, it still exacted a lingering toll on Chinese-descent scientists, according to the report.

“Our study reveals the widespread fear among Chinese-origin scientists in the US arising from conducting routine research and academic activities,” Xie and his four fellow authors from the three US universities concluded.

“If this fear is not alleviated, there are significant risks of an underutilisation of scientific talent as well as losing scientific talent to China and other countries,” they added.

The data collected by the authors indicated that 1,415 scientists of Chinese origin, as identified by their last names, had changed their professional affiliations. These changes were identified in addresses listed under the scientists’ names in academic journals. They worked in engineering, computer science, mathematics, physical sciences and life sciences.

The figure marked a 21.7 per cent jump from the previous year, and is more than twice the number of switched affiliations compared with 2011.

Since the launch of the China Initiative, critics said Chinese scientists in the US, including Chinese-Americans, felt they were being racially profiled and pressured to shut down joint projects and avoid future collaboration with Chinese counterparts.

A poll last year by researchers at the University of Arizona and the Committee of 100, a non-partisan organisation of prominent Chinese-Americans, found 40 per cent of scientists who are ethnic Chinese considered leaving the US due to a fear of American government surveillance.

A similar sentiment was reflected in the AASF report, which surveyed 1,300 “Chinese-origin scientists” employed by US universities in tenure or tenure-track positions between last December and March this year. Of these, 54.4 per cent were naturalised American citizens and another 36.8 per cent were US permanent residents.

The report found that 61 per cent of the scientists, especially young researchers, felt pressure to leave the US, and 65 per cent expressed concern about their collaborations with China. About 45 per cent of the respondents said they were avoiding applying for US federal grants.

Christina Ciocca Eller of the White House’s Office of Science and Technology Policy said the US government’s policies had a direct impact on well-being in the research ecosystem in both “beneficial” and “difficult” ways. Ciocca Eller said the Biden administration would keep striving to protect research security and improve policies.

“We have to take research security challenges with care … especially if we want to facilitate the trust and openness that is at the heart of the American research enterprise,” she explained at the webinar.

Ciocca Eller said her office, which develops and implements research security policies for the Biden administration, was now trying to standardise and be more transparent when it came to research applications for federal funding.

“If our policies to address the challenges posed in relation to research security diverge from our core values or fuel xenophobia or prejudice of any kind, then we will significantly diminish our ability to attract and retain scientific talent or to facilitate productive international collaboration,” she added.

The China Initiative was formulated as part of the Trump administration’s response to Beijing’s Thousand Talents Plan, set up in 2008 to attract foreign talent as part of the central government’s strategy “for foreign technology acquisition”.

There were 77 cases and more than 150 defendants prosecuted under the China Initiative over three years, according to MIT Technology Review’s analysis in December 2021.

The FBI said in January some 2,000 investigations focused on the Chinese government stealing information and technology, but it did not specify how many of these came under the China Initiative.

Meanwhile, US universities appeared to have reacted differently when their employees were indicted, with some quickly firing professors and distancing themselves, while others openly supported their staff during the prosecutions.

Tobin Smith, senior vice-president for science policy and global affairs at the Association of American Universities, said some institutions were confused about rules on federal grants.
He believed there needed to be across-the-board collaboration between the government and different levels at universities ranging from the leadership to their faculties.

“Let’s face it, there have certainly been government policies in the China Initiative which I think have created perhaps some of these challenges and concerns … but as universities, we need to get it right too,” said Smith, whose organisation represents 65 research universities in the US and Canada.

He called for better collaboration between universities and government “when there are issues of concern about disclosure” to set punishment appropriate to the crime.

“We want to work with the Asian American Scholars Forum, other Asian-American groups [and] OSTP federal research agencies to work on getting this right because we need to protect and ensure that we continue to attract that talent, which is proven so valuable to our universities and the research we do as a country,” Smith said.

 
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while that may be true, modern trends in research are still being set and led by US based researchers. the rest just follow suit. chatGPT is a big example of this. now people may bring new, better LLMs, but the path was shown by US based researchers. until and unless countries start being original with their research, the US will remain the leader.
Whatever goes up must come down, it's just started.

 
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I bet these scientists are Chinese returning to China because most white Americans are dumb or on drugs and alcohol. Last time I went to UCSD I felt like I was in Asian country because the Asian students there more than the whites.
 
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Abandoning the US, More Scientists Go to China​

By David J. Bier

APRIL 11, 2023 2:17PM

The Organisation for Economic Co‐operation and Development (OECD)—an intergovernmental organization with 38 member countries—has published new data showing that the United States is losing the race for scientific talent to China and other countries. China’s strategy to recruit scientific researchers to work at China‐affiliated universities is working.

In 2021, the United States lost published research scientists to other countries, while China gained more than 2,408 scientific authors. This was a remarkable turnaround from as recently as 2017 when the United States picked up 4,292 scientists and China picked up just 116. As Figure 1 shows, the rest of the OECD and China have both surpassed the United States for net inflow of scientific authors.

View attachment 930351

The OECD data are not measuring the movement of non‐Chinese into China or non‐Americans into the United States. The OECD tracks inflows and outflows of published scientific researchers based on changes in institutional affiliation. If an author who was previously affiliated with a different country publishes another article in a new country, the new country will be credited as receiving a new research scientist. The OECD credits more Chinese scientists returning to China for the sudden reversal in Chinese and American inflows.

This is a disturbing trend that started before the pandemic. In fact, it appears to coincide with the Trump administration’s “China Initiative”—more accurately titled the anti‐Chinese initiative. Launched in November 2018, the Department of Justice’s campaign was supposed to combat the overblown threat of intellectual property theft and espionage. In reality, it involved repeatedly intimidating institutions that employed scientists of Chinese heritage and attempting malicious failed prosecutions of scientists who worked with institutions in China. U.S. Attorney Andrew E. Lelling has even admitted that the initiative that he helped lead “created a climate of fear among researchers” and now says, “You don’t want people to be scared of collaboration.”

If Chinese scientists are afraid to work in the United States, that means that the United States will not benefit from their discoveries as much or as quickly as China will. Although the Justice Department claims to have shut down its “China Initiative,” my colleagues doubt that Chinese scientists will be free from unjust scrutiny going forward. The U.S. National Institutes of Health is still bragging about having caused the firings of more than 100 scientists and shutting down research by over 150 scientists—over 80 percent of whom identify as Asian.

The administration continues to maintain contrary to evidence that Chinese industrial espionage—by scientists working in the United States—is a significant threat to the country. Universities and U.S. companies think the far greater threat is losing out on talented Chinese researchers. If the United States wants to deal a blow to the Chinese Communist Party, it should start by trying to fix the damage that it has done in the last few years and liberalize immigration from China.

Once the situation in China improves, there will be less incentives for Chinese to leave China for greener pastures.
 
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while that may be true, modern trends in research are still being set and led by US based researchers. the rest just follow suit. chatGPT is a big example of this. now people may bring new, better LLMs, but the path was shown by US based researchers. until and unless countries start being original with their research, the US will remain the leader.

He's overlooking some obvious facts that are influencing these numbers.

China has send 100's and 100's of thousands of people to study in the US.

When they graduate they can not all stay in the US. Unlike what the Chinese here think we do not have open borders allowing an unlimited amount of people from other countries to stay.

So if only Y amount can stay but you send 10 times Y number of people...at least 9 times of them have to go back. It's just math. If China keeps sending more and more people..then more and more people have to go back. I love how they say more people are going back to China...well yeah if only say 20,000 can stay and you send 100,000 then 80% have to leave. But if 20,000 can stay and you send 400,000 then 95% have to leave..so of course a higher percentage are going back. But that doesn't mean less people are staying.

This is somehow now considered a US "brain drain". LOL!

Even though tens of thousands of Chinese nationals are staying in the US every year.

It not like Americans are staying in China in droves. It's almost all based on Chinese nationals staying or going back. The US has no brain drain. The whole thing is laughable as to how it could be twisted into that.

The real question should be why does China have an insane brain drain with the US....
 
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He's overlooking some obvious facts that are influencing these numbers.

China has send 100's and 100's of thousands of people to study in the US.

When they graduate they can not all stay in the US. Unlike what the Chinese here think we do not have open borders allowing an unlimited amount of people from other countries to stay.

So if only Y amount can stay but you send 10 times Y number of people...at least 9 times of them have to go back. It's just math. If China keeps sending more and more people..then more and more people have to go back. I love how they say more people are going back to China...well yeah if only say 20,000 can stay and you send 100,000 then 80% have to leave. But if 20,000 can stay and you send 400,000 then 95% have to leave..so of course a higher percentage are going back. But that doesn't mean less people are staying.

This is somehow now considered a US "brain drain". LOL!

Even though tens of thousands of Chinese nationals are staying in the US every year.

It not like Americans are staying in China in droves. It's almost all based on Chinese nationals staying or going back. The US has no brain drain. The whole thing is laughable as to how it could be twisted into that.

The real question should be why does China have an insane brain drain with the US....
Less and less Chinese students go to study in US now, even Gaokao losers now more likely to choose to pay to study in Europe, Singapore or Hong kong, India now is the origin of the largest foreign students group in US replacing China.
You only see the past but not developing trend and the future, it's a fast changing world. 10 years ago China was still a very poor and backward country, but not longer now.

 
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I think if China is able to create attractive foreigner friendly bubbles in major cities such as Shenzhen, Shanghai, Beijing where English is a lingua franca on par with Chinese, China would probably be able to attract a lot of non-Chinese talent as well from many countries including many non-Western countries, since English is the predominant language of international science and business.
 
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Less and less Chinese students go to study in US now, even Gaokao losers now more likely to choose to pay to study in Europe,

That brain drain is China's pure and simple. That isn't Americans going to China to study and stay. So don't try and sugarcoat China's brain drain by making it sound like we are running at a loss.

India now is the origin of the largest foreign students group in US replacing China.

So are you still going to say we are somehow having a brain drain if 90% of the Indian nationals go back and only 10% stay?? Is this "new math" or something?
 
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That brain drain is China's pure and simple. That isn't Americans going to China to study and stay. So don't try and sugarcoat China's brain drain by making it sound like we are running at a loss.
We have data now and they are not issued by the China, You only see the past but not developing trend and the future, it's a fast changing world. 10 years ago China was still a very poor and backward country, but not longer now.

So are you still going to say we are somehow having a brain drain if 90% of the Indian nationals go back and only 10% stay?? Is this "new math" or something?
Does India have Gaokao?
 
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