Abandoning status as "Islamic Republic"

[Pakistani E]

Patriots mean different thing to different people. Blair is also a patriot to many britons. And who is asking people like u for answers? Aren't u happy in your nation of "patriots" i.e UK?



But many pakistanis in exile identify themselves with oxymoronic term like qadiani "muslim".

Still better than a rapist jamati.

 

[ayesha.a]

Only that its based on 'wishes' not facts, and is 'exclusive' of the opinion of the 'other'. I am the least fan of such hubris!

Which sentences in that particular quotes were wishes? He was talking about himself. Surely, he is best qualified to know about himself?

The rhetoric he was employing was meant to convey that a large section of Pakistani society thinks differently from him on those points, which he sees as a problem.

I'm not getting you - are you saying that you do not want the rest of society to think like him, on the points mentioned in that post?

The guy literally wants to say that he wants a state where abortion, adultery, alcoholism, nudity and pornography Are legal.

That's a complete strawman. And BTW, alcoholism and pornography are already rampant in Pakistan. Pakistan is one of the biggest consumers of both. By nudity, if you mean public nudity, I'm not sure what that has to do with secularism. It's illegal in most parts of most secular countries.

 

[Sine Nomine]

Pakistan is one of the biggest consumers of both.

Source please.

 

[M.AsfandYar]

Which sentences in that particular quotes were wishes? He was talking about himself. Surely, he is best qualified to know about himself?

The rhetoric he was employing was meant to convey that a large section of Pakistani society thinks differently from him on those points, which he sees as a problem.

I'm not getting you - are you saying that you do not want the rest of society to think like him, on the points mentioned in that post?


That's a complete strawman. And BTW, alcoholism and pornography are already rampant in Pakistan. Pakistan is one of the biggest consumers of both. By nudity, if you mean public nudity, I'm not sure what that has to do with secularism. It's illegal in most parts of most secular countries.

Dear admitted alcoholism continues to plague us relatively more in urban areas than rural. But know this in almost every rural society, it is viewed as most disgusting and vile habit.
As for the latter every site was being banned and pretty sure they still are.

 

[ayesha.a]

Dear admitted alcoholism continues to plague us relatively more in urban areas than rural. But know this in almost every rural society, it is viewed as most disgusting and vile habit.
As for the latter every site was being banned and pretty sure they still are.

The point is that whenever Pakistanis ban things by law and declare certain things illegal, they end up having a more intense appetite for those things than others do. That's not unique to Pakistanis - forbidden fruit is always more desirable, that's human nature. Pakistanis are more interested in pornography than most secular countries, and the per capita consumption of alcohol is also higher in Pakistan than in most other places. So declaring Pakistan to be an islamic country doesn't mean that people will give up alcohol or sexual desires, as that poster was implying. And becoming secular will not increase any of this either.

And in regards to internet p0rn, the govt's banning does nothing whatsoever. If you don't believe me, ask any honest Pakistani. It's very easy to access internet p0rn - otherwise Pakistan would not be the largest consumer of internet ****. I don't really have any issues with that - my only gripe is with this holier-than-thou, hypocritical attitude of people who say "Oh we should never become secular, because then everybody will drink alcohol and watch ****", when Pakistan is already one of the largest consumers of both, and becoming secularhas nothing to do with either.

 

[Jit]

pakistan cannot abandon islam openly because that would be a slap in the face of its founder jinnah. and they cannot survive to peace without abandoning islam because now they have a large proportion of its people brainwashed into thinking it is necessary to blow oneself up and everyone around you to reach heaven

 

[livingdead]

I think we got lucky that our leaders were liberal and understood what is needed for a multi faith country. Most ordinary people in India in 47 would probably wanted a hindu country.
The transition(to secular country) in nepal and bangladesh are interesting developments..

 

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

The problem is not Islam , rather the people

Example: In USA there are Islam practicing people working as CEO , policy makers
Running successful banks , running successful companies , and having satisfying family lives
They pay taxes in USA or UK or Europe

100% profitable entities and they point that their faith gives them Focus and courage


Look at Malasia successful country in Technology Sector
Look at UAE successful destination for world investors and business
Look at Saudi Arabia, focused on education and welfare of their citizens, sports and wonderful
Look at Turkey running all sort of technology and business ideas and sophistication


If we removed the word Islamic Republic , that does not means we would become a developed nation?

WHY IS PHILIPPINES not a developed state?
Why is Cuba not a developed state they are not Islamic ?
Why is Romania not a developed state ?
Why is Greece not a developed state?
Why is New Zeland not developed state like USA ?

These are not Islamic Republics then why are they not the best countries i world ?


PAKISTAN CAN ONLY BECOME PAKISTAN WHEN WE WILL HAVE A LEADER THAT WILL PUT 100% politicians in Jail and then throw the constitution in garbage and start over with pen and pencil


a) Lower population , restriction on kids and children
b) Sports and Education / Medical care for people


This is Pakistan's established rule of existance

We have laws that protect

Brahmin Class of Pakistan:

1. Brahmin power attained by Means of Religion : Mullah , the donation takers
2. Brahmin power attained by Means of Weapon : Power of Army , and guardians
3. Brahmin power attained by means of deceit: Politicians have achieved the status by means of rigged vote

The problem lies with the class of Mullah/ Politicians which need to be cleaned up as we know the Army is a bit more dependable but their position should be in Warrior class not Brahmin class which initself is problem as they are always trying to get into Top class so they are also victim of seeking power


Warrior Class of Pakistan:
Registered Army folks in Pakistan, separate schools, hospitals , and shopping malls for these class workers as they give a lot to their nation, Military in Pakistan tends to try to get into Top Level Class which creates a problem

Vashiyas:
The merchants like Sharif Brother and Co , and other business owners who get perks for running business they hire people and take loans etc. Doctors who are merchants of life
As we know , merchant class is involved in Loan taking and disappearing act (Nawaz Sharif etc or Zardari likes) corruption in this class. This class has access to Banks in Pakistan take Million dollar loans under their mother's name and then move it abroad (Corruption of high scale)

Shudras:
General Public
Low income people
Tax pay taxes
Get not electricity but have to pay bill
No Jobs even if they get University degree have to sell fruit or wash dishes
Their children go to separate school that get no funding from government (Public school)
They are beaten up if they try to speak up or sent to jail
They are intimidated if they try to buy land , by Land Mafia or Bhatta Khor or Gulu butt

Untouchables:
The folks that talk of change to system and revolution, either they are killed or forced it prisons or move abroad, they are normally called crazy

> Press writers , revolutionaries , people who attack the parliaments and politicians

Pakistan can only become Pakistan when we will abolish this class system - Hum Azad nahi hain , we never were because once one ruler left , their subordinates took over
after assasinating Liaqat Ali Khan

Our constitution is a bits and pieces document carried over from British , which half of us can't read due to its complex mode of writing

1 Constitution that applies to all classes


Azad to ham kabhi howain hi nahi , since 1947


Ye Jo log asking for Pakistan to remove Islamic republic can answer me , will removing the world Islamic republic change the CASTE system we have in place in our country ?

 

[Jit]

@AZADPAKISTAN2009 - good thinking. It is never the system or the religion or anything singleton. It is almost always the people that are the problem.

Your approach in above post is on the head of the nail - the caste system is the problem both in India and Pakistan. Only muslims don't use the same names as Indians do.

well done

 

[Luffy 500]

What's your point? The meaning of the word patriot is not complicated - it's you who seems confused.

Isn't patriotism a subjective terms that varies with time, place and ideology? What's patriotism to u is not patriotism to me. Its not me that is confused but u living in denial and suffering from an inferiority complex vis-vis west U can't be on 2 boats at the same time.

Btw u haven't answered me - aren't u comfortable enough as a patriot in UK that u feel the urge of lecturing muslims on making a "land of patriots" ?

Still better than a rapist jamati.

That's also an oxymoron.

 

[Talwar e Pakistan]

The point is that whenever Pakistanis ban things by law and declare certain things illegal, they end up having a more intense appetite for those things than others do. That's not unique to Pakistanis - forbidden fruit is always more desirable, that's human nature. Pakistanis are more interested in pornography than most secular countries, and the per capita consumption of alcohol is also higher in Pakistan than in most other places. So declaring Pakistan to be an islamic country doesn't mean that people will give up alcohol or sexual desires, as that poster was implying. And becoming secular will not increase any of this either.

And in regards to internet p0rn, the govt's banning does nothing whatsoever. If you don't believe me, ask any honest Pakistani. It's very easy to access internet p0rn - otherwise Pakistan would not be the largest consumer of internet ****. I don't really have any issues with that - my only gripe is with this holier-than-thou, hypocritical attitude of people who say "Oh we should never become secular, because then everybody will drink alcohol and watch ****", when Pakistan is already one of the largest consumers of both, and becoming secularhas nothing to do with either.

Alcohol isnt illegal in Pakistan.

 

[Mutakalim]

As I suspected, it's the secular v/s islamic terminology that you were upset with, not the ideas themselves. I'm sure you agree with his ideas.

Your suspect ion is wrong.

He said that te future of Pakistan looks bleak. You replied that he should leave. I was pointing out that staying and working to make the future less bleak is a nobler endeavor than leaving.

ok

So you are saying that Indians on PDF are all specialists on know exactly what would hurt Pakistan and this is why they liked my post? Well, they are a secular society and they have more tanks than us.

You are a Genius. No of tanks are directly proportional to secularism in a society. What a piece of logic.

So that their sacrifice wouldn't be in vain, as they would only have died to create a failed state every minorities are persecuted, ironically exactly the thing they were running from.

Kid if pakistan is a failed state than leave this theocracy.

 

[Ussaid]

That's 180 degree to Islam.

yom-e qiyamat is coming fast, huh?

People have been saying that since the time of the Mongols

Leave it to the majority. And majority doesnt allow it to happen. Move a bill in the parliament and than see what happens.


Keep your ideas to yourself. Or contest election, gain two third majority and do what you like.

I have the right to express my ideas, you on the other hand are not required to read them, comment on them or even pay attention to them. You can go back to praising child-molesting mulvis.

There are no "our" secular roots. May be only yours. Pakistan was islamic republic, is islamic republic and will be,
till the end of days.

So in your opinion all problems are due to islamic country. Rubbish

It’s up to people what they like and what they want not up to you.


Not a single one


Than leave pakistan.


Any proof of this genocide or its just a mere BS.

We are anti westerners not anti islam or anti pakistan.

"Islamic Republic" notion was created by Zia Ul-Haq to strengthen his rule. The Quaid didn't visioned this.

Hah Secular? the only thing that is keeping hundreds of different ethnic groups united is Islam. If we randomly change to secularism there will be country-wide unrest. Look at the other Muslim countries which tried to switch to secularism, the only country that is doing good so far is Turkey and even they are now reverting back to their Islamic traditions.

The only thing diving Shia, Sunni, Deobandi, Barevli, Aga Khani, etc is religion to. As Turkey keeps reverting back to its Islamic traditions, it's situation on a social level is declining.

Nobody is forcing women to "keep women veiled", women want to be kept veiled and protect their dignity.

lol. Try going into a slum wearing western clothes, then we would see how many people are "forcing" you.

Religion is the only thing that the People and the Government agree on. Religion is also the highest morale boaster for our armed forces. Religion is also what makes me a proud Pakistan.

If your religion is what makes you a "proud" Pakistani, then I am afraid your patriotism is flawed. You're better of pretending you're an Arab.

A majority of women do want to be kept veiled or covered, the last time i saw a woman unveiled there was a mob of teenagers checking her out and harassing her. Pakistan doesn't force anyone to "veil" there selves, the People do it their selves.

If a women is getting harassed because she is unveiled, then it is the fault of the teenagers. The teenagers should be punished. A women should be able to walk naked with a pouch of gold and not even a single person must dare to disturb her.

You are a Genius. No of tanks are directly proportional to secularism in a society. What a piece of logic.

It is called "sarcasm". Maybe the concept is too intelligent for your momin brain, so don't think too deeply about it or you suffer a seizure.

Kid if pakistan is a failed state than leave this theocracy.

A third of Pakistanis want to leave their country anyways. I choose to free it.

 

[Mutakalim]

"Islamic Republic" notion was created by Zia Ul-Haq to strengthen his rule. The Quaid didn't visioned this.

that is you theory? If majority of pakistanis accepted this theory than there will be no islamic laws in this country?

It is called "sarcasm". Maybe the concept is too intelligent for your momin brain, so don't think too deeply about it or you suffer a seizure.

I am aware of secular intelligence

A third of Pakistanis want to leave their country anyways. I choose to free it.

Not due to islamic republic but due to social and economical problems

 

[Ussaid]

that is you theory? If majority of pakistanis accepted this theory than there will be no islamic laws in this country?


I am aware of secular intelligence


Not due to islamic republic but due to social and economical problems

Your*


No idea what that second statement meant.

During the last decade, the Taliban has bombed and destroyed our country's reputation and security situation. This has resulted in less economic activity as all "kaffir" investors are scared off and tourism in Pakistan is a healthy alternative to suicide. Yet still, most of the community praise the Afghan Taliban (not the TTP) and have completely destroyed our relationship with the USA. This leads to load-shedding, inflation and poverty, which results in gang warfare. So yes, we can improve our society if instead of our mockery of "Islamic" and "Republic" (two words that must never be joined), we take on a secular route like Attaturk's Turkey.