Abandoning status as "Islamic Republic"

[vegav]

World's richest state in terms of Per Capita Income is Qatar and is very much a religious state. States like UAE, KSA, Brunei have state religions are not only growing and prospering but competing with the rest of the world on HDI index rather favorably. Israel has the highest PhD rate per capita in the world and is a Jewish state. Germany and UK too have no strict segregation laws and are doing just fine. The argument that secularism brings prosperity is simply bogus.

Prosperity is a product of good governance, rule of law, availability of justice, fiscal discipline, education and ability to defend the country. I can list a number of secular states which have totally failed or even worse collapsed, one of them was USSR.

How did Qatar get rich and that so called Per Capita prosperity is sustainable? Isn't that because 80% of Qataris sit on their *** and enjoy the Gas reserves which is tapped and piped by the expats?

USSR was an atheist state,not a secular state and there is no link between proepserity and secularism.Just a random correlation which you are trying to achieve.

I am not suggesting what Pakistan should adopt but your argument has weak or no basis.

 

[Talwar e Pakistan]

Maybe it is time to abandon our status as the "Islamic" "Republic" of Pakistan, and return to our secular roots which were planned by the fathers of the nation. Not a literal name change, but Pakistani people need to abandon the "Islamic Republic" ideology. Pakistan was created because Jinnah and co were afraid that in a Hindu dominated Country, there would always be episodes of violence and disagreement between the two chief religions, as Muslims of India had grown to become an almost different culture. Thus Pakistan was created so that the Muslims and Hindus can live in peace alone. Pakistan was created because the Muslim League felt the new "Hindus"tan would not be secular enough, not because it wouldn't be "Islamic" enough. Do we want to end up like the Middle East?

Also, it is embarrassing how many people believe in ridiculously stupid Jewish conspiracy theories, and hate Jews so much without having ever having seen one in their entire lives. Can a mature, mentally healthy human being actually believe such far fetched stories? Is this the result of one or two generations of cousin-cousin breeding? The reality is every year hundreds, if not thousands of non-Muslims are persecuted and harassed all along the country, but our sympathies are only for Palestine and non-existent dead Muslims in Burma and India. Isn't it ridiculous how people in Pakistan want women to "cover" themselves up, yet Google confirms the most number of pornographic searches are from Pakistan. Google also confirms that South Asia ranks the highest in bestiality searches.

Now people are going to be blame me for having such a negative view of my home country, but I am telling the truth, and even if the truth is not something that was told to us through biased text books. Media doesn't report such incidents because they are more focused on who Imran Khan wants to sleep with, and they don't have time for a family of murdered Ahmaids, Shias, Chrisitans, Hindus, etc. But of course it is all Mossad's, RAW's and CIA's fault, because they have so much time and resources to waste on us. (Well, RAW is an exception I guess. They all have the time in the world for their little Eastern Sibling)


P.S Removing it won't really affect the economical or the political situation. It would improve the social condition.

(NON PAKISTANIS KINDLY DON'T VOTE ON THE POLL)

Hah Secular? the only thing that is keeping hundreds of different ethnic groups united is Islam. If we randomly change to secularism there will be country-wide unrest. Look at the other Muslim countries which tried to switch to secularism, the only country that is doing good so far is Turkey and even they are now reverting back to their Islamic traditions.

 

[vegav]

I already did. They are taking care of their labor just fine. Whoever is unhappy can go home. Capiche?



So you mean countries that were involved in an illegal war in Iraq didn't violate any human rights? - Not to forget that all but few of them have genocides under their belt!



You are no body to predict the 'future' merely based on your poorly constructed myth you call an opinion.



Pakistan needs to create its own solution. Secularism is a farce and it doesn't mean prosperity. What we need at this hour is to safeguard the country from both religious nutbags and libtarded leftists. Both of them tend to have a version of reality which is obliviously discrediting of the majority opinion. Both of them live in a self inflicted delusion of being right while everyone who tends to disagree with their narrative is a crazy conspiracy theorist.

seriously?

are you crazy,do u have any clue?

 

[Talwar e Pakistan]

I don't generalize whole races of people, I don't glorify cold blooded murderers like Mumtaz Qadri, I am not against any kind education, I don't hero-worship anyone who wears a beard and keeps women veiled, I think women are equal to men, I don't watch bestiality **** on internet (because they think it is better than watching *HARAM* WOMEN *HARAM*), I don't create my own theories on Jihadist groups, I don't blame much better-off westerns thousands of miles away, I don't violently watchdog my beliefs, among many things. Me and my ideology can have its flaws, but I think my ideology may be better because it agrees with the doctrine of Universal Human Rights accepted by the entire world. I didn't called any specific people silly, stupid, regressive. I merely stated the evidenced facts (and the facts point them out to be stupid and hypocritical perverts), something that millions of know-it-all conspiracy theorists around Pakistan fail to even understand. I am speaking from experience. If you are settled in Australia, I don't think you can understand.

Nobody is forcing women to "keep women veiled", women want to be kept veiled and protect their dignity.

 

[ayesha.a]

No need to abandon our status as Islamic republic. It won’t help either but problems will increase as majority of our population is not in favor of such ideas. If you like this to happen than wins the two third majority and change the constitution in which way you like.

As I suspected, it's the secular v/s islamic terminology that you were upset with, not the ideas themselves. I'm sure you agree with his ideas.

Who is noble?

He said that te future of Pakistan looks bleak. You replied that he should leave. I was pointing out that staying and working to make the future less bleak is a nobler endeavor than leaving.

 

[Talwar e Pakistan]

Not it is not, because I have a total of 24 messages and do actual research and social experiments rather than just posting on forums as a keyboard warrior.



Religion is too personal a issue for governments to even consider. Why should a state care to which Gods their people pray to? The Gods can deal with the state themselves, they don't need mere mortals.

Religion is the only thing that the People and the Government agree on. Religion is also the highest morale boaster for our armed forces. Religion is also what makes me a proud Pakistan.

 

[ayesha.a]

Nobody is forcing women to "keep women veiled", women want to be kept veiled and protect their dignity.

1) Not all women want to be kept veiled. There is nothing undignified about our heads or faces, any more than with your head or face.
2) There are many islamic countries where women are indeed forced to be veiled. Including some regions of Pakistan, where although the law of the land doesn't force them, society does.

 

[Talwar e Pakistan]

1) Not all women want to be kept veiled. There is nothing undignified about our heads or faces, any more than with your head or face.
2) There are many islamic countries where women are indeed forced to be veiled. Including some regions of Pakistan, where although the law of the land doesn't force them, society does.

A majority of women do want to be kept veiled or covered, the last time i saw a woman unveiled there was a mob of teenagers checking her out and harassing her. Pakistan doesn't force anyone to "veil" there selves, the People do it their selves.

 

[vegav]

If a bunch teenagers are harassing a woman for merely showing her face,then there is some serious pyschi sexual issues under the surface in pakistani males.

 

[ayesha.a]

A majority of women do want to be kept veiled or covered, the last time i saw a woman unveiled there was a mob of teenagers checking her out and harassing her. Pakistan doesn't force anyone to "veil" there selves, the People do it their selves.

Citation please.

 

[Talwar e Pakistan]

If a bunch teenagers are harassing a woman for merely showing her face,then there is some serious pyschi sexual issues under the surface in pakistani males.

Not merely showing her face, she was wearing western clothes.

Citation please.

Citation? I live in Sialkot.

 

[vegav]

which western clothes? tank top n shorts or?

 

[ayesha.a]

Citation? I live in Sialkot.

I asked for a citation for your claim, not where you live. Your personal experience cannot be the basis of sweeping generalizations beginning with "a majority of women".

 

[vegav]

I just don't get it, Dubai has so many clubs and alcohol and all 'western' pleasures and it calls itself a Muslim country, then why does Pakistan have to be ultra orthodox scary Muslim country???

Just be freaking normal like you used to be in the 70s. We need to go back to pre Zia days. But this process will take 30-40 years of re-education. Whats the point, I will never see the good old Pakistan again, I'll be dead.

Qatar also,more orthodoxy on the surface,crazy stuff beneath.

 

[Kompromat]

Other than the last sentence, the rest of his post is very pertinent to Pakistani society today. What is wrong with a rant, if by that one means to speak in an impassioned manner?.

Only that its based on 'wishes' not facts, and is 'exclusive' of the opinion of the 'other'. I am the least fan of such hubris!