Abandoning status as "Islamic Republic"

[Mutakalim]

Your*

my mistake

 

[Luffy 500]

People have been saying that since the time of the Mongols

People have been saying what?

 

[Red Spinifex]

Even though I'm not Pakistani and I am sometimes critical of Pakistan, I actually want to see a stable Pakistan and a prosperous Pakistan. I would like to see Jinnah's secular vision for Pakistan fulfilled. But obviously that's not going to happen as long as Pakistan remains a hotbed of Islamic fundamentalism, radicalisation, militancy, and terrorism. These are all highly destructive elements to progress within Pakistan. And that's the absolute pity of it.

 

[Kompromat]

Even though I'm not Pakistani and I am sometimes critical of Pakistan, I actually want to see a stable Pakistan and a prosperous Pakistan. I would like to see Jinnah's secular vision for Pakistan fulfilled. But obviously that's not going to happen as long as Pakistan remains a hotbed of Islamic fundamentalism, radicalisation, militancy, and terrorism. These are all highly destructive elements to progress within Pakistan. And that's the absolute pity of it.

Germany was a secular country then why did it become the hotbed of Nazism?

 

[Red Spinifex]

Germany was a secular country then why did it become the hotbed of Nazism?

Well, for a start Germany was one of the most highly industrialised and developed countries in the world in the 1930s. Germany was a world industrial power and she was fully developed as an industrial nation.

However, the political ideology of National Socialism (Nazism) appealed to some Germans, but not all. The Nazis only ever got a maximum of 37% of the total national vote in Germany, but Hitler engineered himself into power by disrupting the Reichstag, the German parliament, and causing democracy to falter and fail.

Pakistan, on the other hand, is not a world industrial power as Germany was in the 1930s and is not a fully developed country. The country is held back by internal strife and divisive conflict. If Pakistan is to develop clearly that internal strife must end and the divisive conflict resolved. Then, with internal peace, Pakistanis can work to develop Pakistan and make progress towards a prosperous, modern state.

 

[Kompromat]

Well, for a start Germany was one of the most highly industrialised and developed countries in the world in the 1930s. Germany was a world industrial power and she was fully developed as an industrial nation.

However, the political ideology of National Socialism (Nazism) appealed to some Germans, but not all. The Nazis only ever got a maximum of 37% of the total national vote in Germany, but Hitler engineered himself into power by disrupting the Reichstag, the German parliament, and causing democracy to falter and fail.

Pakistan, on the other hand, is not a world industrial power as Germany was in the 1930s and is not a fully developed country. The country is held back by internal strife and divisive conflict. If Pakistan is to develop clearly that internal strife must end and the divisive conflict resolved. Then, with internal peace, Pakistanis can work to develop Pakistan and progress towards a prosperous, modern state made.

So you agree with the point that religious or secular, both states can become hot beds of radical ideologies?

 

[Red Spinifex]

So you agree with the point that religious or secular, both states can become hot beds of radical ideologies?

Well, I'll put it to you to name a fully developed, industrialised country that is a religion-based or theocratic state?

 

[Kompromat]

Well, I'll put it to you to name a fully developed, industrialised country that is a religion-based or theocratic state?

Germany and UK have no strict segregation laws. Even the Australian parliament starts with the Lord's prayer. Countries that we regard as fully developed and industrialized have become so due to the rule of law, sound economic policies, education, investment in human capital, research and development and their ability to defend themselves. I can name you dozens of secular states that are either failed or failing.

 

[T-123456]

Well, for a start Germany was one of the most highly industrialised and developed countries in the world in the 1930s. Germany was a world industrial power and she was fully developed as an industrial nation.

However, the political ideology of National Socialism (Nazism) appealed to some Germans, but not all. The Nazis only ever got a maximum of 37% of the total national vote in Germany, but Hitler engineered himself into power by disrupting the Reichstag, the German parliament, and causing democracy to falter and fail.

Pakistan, on the other hand, is not a world industrial power as Germany was in the 1930s and is not a fully developed country. The country is held back by internal strife and divisive conflict. If Pakistan is to develop clearly that internal strife must end and the divisive conflict resolved. Then, with internal peace, Pakistanis can work to develop Pakistan and make progress towards a prosperous, modern state.

Not true,after WWI Germany was a industrial,economical wreck,people were hungry and needed a way out of the mess they were in.
The NSDAP,prommised and provided everything they needed(food,jobs,their dignity)
Another important aspect was the prommise to take back lost(WWI) land(Elsaz,Sudetenland etc..).

 

[Red Spinifex]

Germany and UK have no strict segregation laws. Even the Australian parliament starts with the Lord's prayer. Countries that we regard as fully developed and industrialized have become so due to the rule of law, sound economic policies, education, investment in human capital, research and development and their ability to defend themselves. I can name you dozens of secular states that are either failed or failing.

The Lord's Prayer is said at the beginning of a parliamentary session as a matter of tradition. There is a separation of church and state.

Well again I'll put it to you, how has being the Islamic Republic of Pakistan worked out for you? Pakistan is now rated 10th in the top 20 of the world's failed states, I believe, so if one were a Pakistani one would have to ask, what is contributing to the failure of Pakistan as a state and why isn't the country developing into a prosperous, modern state? What is holding us back? I think the answers are rather obvious.

Not true,after WWI Germany was a industrial,economical wreck,people were hungry and needed a way out of the mess they were in.
The NSDAP,prommised and provided everything they needed(food,jobs,their dignity)
Another important aspect was the prommise to take back lost(WWI) land(Elsaz,Sudetenland etc..).

Not fully correct! Germany was in economic depression after the First World War, but its industrial infrastructure was intact. Though economically depressed, it was developed industrially and had the means to produce. It suffered as did all industrialised countries during the Depression.

 

[Kompromat]

The Lord's Prayer is said at the beginning of a parliamentary session as a matter of tradition. There is a separation of church and state.

Well again I'll put it to you, how has being the Islamic Republic of Pakistan worked out for you? Pakistan is now rated 10th in the top 20 of the world's failed states, I believe, so if one were a Pakistani one would have to ask, what is contributing to the failure of Pakistan as a state and why isn't the country developing into a prosperous, modern state? What is holding us back? I think the answers are rather obvious.

Pakistan would be the same country even if it was a secular republic. Our issues which hold us back have nothing to do with being an 'Islamic republic' but our inability to bring worthy leadership to rule. Pakistan in effect operates like a secular state.

 

[Red Spinifex]

Pakistan would be the same country even if it was a secular republic. Our issues which hold us back have nothing to do with being an 'Islamic republic' but our inability to bring worthy leadership to rule. Pakistan in effect operates like a secular state.

If you say so.

 

[Kompromat]

If you say so.

Pakistan needs education, rule of law and clean govt before we can think about changing our identity.

 

[OTTOMAN]

Pakistan was named 'Islamic republic' by a secular person, leading a party of secular and atheists.
It would be much better if inheritors of same party comment on this thread... IMO, others have no right.

 

[T-123456]

Hans Fallada's Little Man, What Now? (Kleiner Mann, was nun?), the story of a German "everyman," caught up in the turmoil of economic crisis and unemployment, and equally vulnerable to the siren songs of the radical political Left and Right. Fallada's 1932 novel accurately portrayed the Germany of his time: a country immersed in economic and social unrest and polarized at the opposite ends of its political spectrum. Many of the causes of this disorder had their roots World War I and its aftermath.

What good is a industrial infrastructure when there is no economy?