AAP Government's First Decisions: Cheaper Power, Free Water, Demolition Ban

[The_Showstopper]

Check when you started the thread..what news you posted(which talks about only subsidy)then check your Post# 30 where you attributed this actions as walking the talk and then read my pos t# 48....Now please tell me who is repeating what!!

Just to be on same page...giving subsidy is not walking the talk..concrete actions on reducing power tarrifs by respecting economic prudence is....please state your point and let's move on this one for good

Ok please go through the OP and my post again, where did I or AK for that matter state that providing subsidies is AAP's intent. Check out his election speeches, he promised for cheap electricity/water etc and not subsidies. Providing subsidies as repeated by AAP is a temporary solution and providing cheap power through alternate cheap sources is AAP's intent and this is what one one of the link I posted previously speaks of.

I didn't ignore anything...that's why called them lame...Please even a kindergarden kid will crack this that if 90% of the population is covered under this subsidy then all the points about usage by poor, middle and rich goes for a toss...In short 90% of the population in delhi consume less that 400 units and will be subsidized...now unless and until you are saying that 90% of Delhi population is poor and deserves subsidy then can we atleast conclude that this scheme covers a good amount of non deserving people(from subsidy perspective) and thus unfortunate....can you be this honest with me??

Ok I ask the previously asked questions again which are still unanswered....

Do you think the free water and cheap electricity is unlimited? Would a rich or upper middle class family use the same amount of water or electricity as compared to a poor or lower middle class family?

Comon buddy...you are repeating my point and kind of agreeing to it..not sure if you have realized this...Media shows those stories which have maximum mileage....showing a rape in delhi has much more mileage than a remote village...similarly highlighting Hindu orthodox moronic actions has much more mileage while BJP in power than otherwise...Just one off topic point....the % of rapes reported in Delhi vs Actuals is much better than remote areas...however that doesn't make delhi any safe place...just an observation that i want to share...

You are not getting the point here. Remote villages never got the mileage neither now nor then. But other urban areas like Mumbai, Bangalore, Kolkata etc regularly get their share prime time slot but Delhi easily beats them in this game. So my point is Delhi is more famous or rather put it as infamous than other urban centres for obvious reasons which can easily be implied to BJP and its cohorts when compared to.other parties.

I already said i want them out.....however are you willing to say that this so called forced conversion allegation has nothing to with Modi or his MP's....given you agree law and order is a state subject??

I just gave you an instance of forced conversion. Why cherry pick that particular instance? RSS and certain BJP members have repeatedly voiced their support for "Ghar Wapsis". Is Modi alien to BJP/RSS or are you alien to this news?

Taking advantage of someone's poverty is not free will...if you can't even differentiate that then i agree we should stop right here....

If someone out of free will is doing something, how is that defined as "taking advantage". If you can't differentiate between free will and taking advantage, well I don't have much to say....

When i clearly said i want them to be out why you wrote that?? I said politics is weird because i can't make much sense why these people are still in...similarly AAP has disappointed on many terms where they failed to live upto the high moral ground they were championing...Last one month has shown us a lot of muck...so going down the gutter is in this sense...they have won 67 seats, going to stay for 5 years and are hopefully going to do good work...

Can you elaborate the bolded part since you chose to support that party and still can't reason this? And speaking of AAP, if the present situation of AAP is what you call gutter, I would definitely want to know how you would describe BJP/Congress...

National interests are supreme and disintegration of country is last thing we should support in the name of democracy...now this is my last comment on this topic, feel free to reply if you still want to...

Keeping a territory of India and its residents happy and peaceful also counts as national interests. Not sure what you meant by your version of national interests...

Sweet ... the whole saga happened for over a month....he was outside delhi for how long?? Anyhow i have no problems with him speaking or not because i believe it is not necessary for Arvind to speak every time and on every issue...There are ministers and other supporting staff for the same reason..They are his voice...This is true for Modi as well...his senior most ministers spoke on this....they had debates in Parliament....he himself spoke in Parliament...now if we want to ignore all that then no-one can help here...

I don't remember people asking Modi to speak out on his party issues when he was on foreign visits, so why do you want AK to speak on party issues when he is not in Delhi....

Agreed...yes they are distasteful and i apologize....however one request...if you are blind AAP supporter or/and strong Modi hater then please call it out...otherwise some of your reply make me wonder why is this simple thing not getting across and i tend to loose control(not an excuse and i will mind my words from now on!!)

I already made it clear that I dislike Modi and I have obvious reasons for it and have listed them before and yes I supported them with credible sources, so you are just repeating this part....

 

[deckingraj]

I think time has some where we should agree to disagree on some points....

Ok please go through the OP and my post again, where did I or AK for that matter state that providing subsidies is AAP's intent. Check out his election speeches, he promised for cheap electricity/water etc and not subsidies. Providing subsidies as repeated by AAP is a temporary solution and providing cheap power through alternate cheap sources is AAP's intent and this is what one one of the link I posted previously speaks of.

If bold part is what you believe in then i agree...so now can we say that so far we have not seen anything substantive as far as enabling Delhi for cheep power...I am sure they will work on this however as of now nothing much to showcase...

Ok I ask the previously asked questions again which are still unanswered....
Do you think the free water and cheap electricity is unlimited? Would a rich or upper middle class family use the same amount of water or electricity as compared to a poor or lower middle class family?

No rich or poor class not necessarily use the same amount...now can u please clarify what is the point you are driving with this??

You are not getting the point here. Remote villages never got the mileage neither now nor then. But other urban areas like Mumbai, Bangalore, Kolkata etc regularly get their share prime time slot but Delhi easily beats them in this game. So my point is Delhi is more famous or rather put it as infamous than other urban centres for obvious reasons which can easily be implied to BJP and its cohorts when compared to.other parties.

and you are not getting mine, however ironically we both are using similar premise.. What i am trying to say is that with BJP in power any news on orthodox hindutva has far bigger punch than otherwise...Do you agree with this? If yes, then i will repeat that all these moronic institutions were always there however getting more limelight now...

I just gave you an instance of forced conversion. Why cherry pick that particular instance?

because a) that was the only instance you used to suggest there are forced conversions b) The news is unsubstantiated however just for sake of discussion i took it on face value...

RSS and certain BJP members have repeatedly voiced their support for "Ghar Wapsis". Is Modi alien to BJP/RSS or are you alien to this news?

What has ghar wapsi anything to do with forced conversion?? Please decide what is the issue here...Conversion or Forced conversion...On one hand you support hindus being converted even by the lure of money(which actually can't be considered free will ) and on other hand you have problems with "Ghar Wapsi"..may i know why??Conversion with free will are allowed in our country and each side is doing it...just bcoz you hate one side you can't mark their conversion exercise as unlawful....

If someone out of free will is doing something, how is that defined as "taking advantage". If you can't differentiate between free will and taking advantage, well I don't have much to say....

Well then i can't explain however will give one last shot...I am poor and need money for my survival...you say i will give you money however you need to change your religion...now being desperate for money what choice do i have?? How is this free will and not taking advantage?? May be a different example will help - farmers take loan from Sahukarsbecause they are desperate for money...these sahukars charge them interests upto 30%-40%...now what you call this...free will or taking advantage?? Is that Sahukar a good person or a vulture in your eyes??

Can you elaborate the bolded part since you chose to support that party and still can't reason this?

and that's where the problem is...you want to see from the prism of party and i refuse to do that...I don't support BJP/AAP/Congress...i just support good moves and reject wrong ones...Morons like these in BJP is a wrong move...simple...

And speaking of AAP, if the present situation of AAP is what you call gutter, I would definitely want to know how you would describe BJP/Congress...

They are already in gutter with AAP working hard to join them...look we were all accustomed to a certain style of politics...then came AAP with a promise of different form of politics...it is but obvious when they fail you, you will be more disturbed than a similar act by others...for example - BJP morons might not hurt your belief then a similar act by Modi because that's where the hopes are...did u get the difference??

Keeping a territory of India and its residents happy and peaceful also counts as national interests. Not sure what you meant by your version of national interests...

Ummm well then i am pretty sure you would be certainly happy with what Mufti is doing in Kashmir right now...he is certainly keeping people happy...

I don't remember people asking Modi to speak out on his party issues when he was on foreign visits, so why do you want AK to speak on party issues when he is not in Delhi....

Don't dodge the question...He was not in delhi for how long and how long the mess was on...this is the question...answer that...let me...he was in Delhi when the mess was on...and he simply said i refuse to speak on it..however yet while in Bangalore he had time to swear all these people...anyhow as already said i don't believe that every time leader has to speak...

I already made it clear that I dislike Modi and I have obvious reasons for it and have listed them before and yes I supported them with credible sources, so you are just repeating this part....

Well thanks for clarifying...because if you are writing all this out of sheer hatred then i will never be able to convince you on anything irrespective of whether i am being logical or not...

Please feel free to reply/ignore but consider this as my last reply on this thread...

 

[The_Showstopper]

If bold part is what you believe in then i agree...so now can we say that so far we have not seen anything substantive as far as enabling Delhi for cheep power...I am sure they will work on this however as of now nothing much to showcase...

Agreed, so let's wait n watch which is what I said in one of my earlier posts but for now yes they are fulfilling their promises, it's the delivery method that has to be changed in the long term...

No rich or poor class not necessarily use the same amount...now can u please clarify what is the point you are driving with this??

Yes, so my point was that since AAP Govt. has set some limits for cheap electricity to which if not adhered, the user will have to pay the normal price and since Upper middle class and rich would obviously consume more power compared to poor or lower middle class, the subsidized power would rather benefit the needy....

and you are not getting mine, however ironically we both are using similar premise.. What i am trying to say is that with BJP in power any news on orthodox hindutva has far bigger punch than otherwise...Do you agree with this? If yes, then i will repeat that all these moronic institutions were always there however getting more limelight now...

Agreed and by saying what you just said I hope you also realize that these moronic institutions outside/within BJP also get emboldened when BJP is in power which is not the case otherwise...

because a) that was the only instance you used to suggest there are forced conversions b) The news is unsubstantiated however just for sake of discussion i took it on face value...

Yes but the news is not unsubstantiated, the affected people have clearly stated that they were intimidated by the Sanghi goons present during the incident, hence the FIR. I have also posted the sources along with video recording of one of the concerned person supporting my claim in the related threads over here on PDF.

What has ghar wapsi anything to do with forced conversion?? Please decide what is the issue here...Conversion or Forced conversion...On one hand you support hindus being converted even by the lure of money(which actually can't be considered free will ) and on other hand you have problems with "Ghar Wapsi"..may i know why??Conversion with free will are allowed in our country and each side is doing it...just bcoz you hate one side you can't mark their conversion exercise as unlawful....

I don't have any issues with "Ghar waapsi" but forced conversions and this has been my consistent view, not sure why you came to this conclusion...

Well then i can't explain however will give one last shot...I am poor and need money for my survival...you say i will give you money however you need to change your religion...now being desperate for money what choice do i have?? How is this free will and not taking advantage?? May be a different example will help - farmers take loan from Sahukarsbecause they are desperate for money...these sahukars charge them interests upto 30%-40%...now what you call this...free will or taking advantage?? Is that Sahukar a good person or a vulture in your eyes??

OK Let's take your example, Why do farmers take loans from Sahukars even with 30-40% interest? Because they have no choice hence are FORCED to take loans. So there is no free will in here which is something you agree. But the premise where you used this is wrong. Compare this with a pastor/Evangelist who comes to a poor family, feeds them for a day or two, tells them that "how God has sent him to help them" and convinces them to follow "God's path" to get redemption, success etc and while doing so he also helps them monetarily. Can you see the difference? Now this God talk could be brainwashing or whatever you call but not forced, the same way as people voting for a certain party with great expectations after listening to the election promises.

and that's where the problem is...you want to see from the prism of party and i refuse to do that...I don't support BJP/AAP/Congress...i just support good moves and reject wrong ones...Morons like these in BJP is a wrong move...simple...

For now BJP seems to have more morons within their ranks...

Ummm well then i am pretty sure you would be certainly happy with what Mufti is doing in Kashmir right now...he is certainly keeping people happy...

Let me remind you that Mufti is sitting on the laps of our "nationalists" aka Modi and party which means he has some kind of tacit approval from the "nationalists"... No?

Don't dodge the question...He was not in delhi for how long and how long the mess was on...this is the question...answer that...let me...he was in Delhi when the mess was on...and he simply said i refuse to speak on it..however yet while in Bangalore he had time to swear all these people...anyhow as already said i don't believe that every time leader has to speak...

Yes he was in Delhi when the mess was simmering and wasn't open in media, hence he kept mum about it as it was party internal issue, but when he came back to Delhi after his treatment, he answered the questions....

Well thanks for clarifying...because if you are writing all this out of sheer hatred then i will never be able to convince you on anything irrespective of whether i am being logical or not...

Please feel free to reply/ignore but consider this as my last reply on this thread...

I've already stated numerous times about my dislike of Modi and supported them with logical reasoning and evidences, now if you want to see just the "sheer hatred" of mine, then we must move on instead of wasting each other's time...

 

[deckingraj]

I've already stated numerous times about my dislike of Modi and supported them with logical reasoning and evidences, now if you want to see just the "sheer hatred" of mine, then we must move on instead of wasting each other's time...

kewl...now i will hold you accountable for what you said above..I will be honest with you...reciprocate plz...

Agreed, so let's wait n watch which is what I said in one of my earlier posts but for now yes they are fulfilling their promises, it's the delivery method that has to be changed in the long term...

Fine..i have serious issues with the method and i will wait before i see the delivery mechanism and give them their due..so let's agree to disagree here and move on this subject...

Yes, so my point was that since AAP Govt. has set some limits for cheap electricity to which if not adhered, the user will have to pay the normal price and since Upper middle class and rich would obviously consume more power compared to poor or lower middle class, the subsidized power would rather benefit the needy....

Sorry but this is serious disregard to yours and mine intellect level...I have repeated many times so won't mind one more time....Sisodia claimed that 90% of people will benefit...which implies 90% of people use less that 400 units...now unless and until you believe that 90% of Delhi's population is poor than either Sisodia or you are lying...Look this is plain and simple...this subsidy is going to substantial subset of non deserving people as well and thus seriously flawed...what's the issue is accepting this???

Agreed and by saying what you just said I hope you also realize that these moronic institutions outside/within BJP also get emboldened when BJP is in power which is not the case otherwise...

I honestly disagree..to some extent perhaps but nothing worthwhile... i could have understood your logic had law and order a center subject....because it is a state subject i have my reservations with your statement above....what's your take on this...
A little off topic but Modi's own track record against organization like VHP also substantiate my claims...Togadia once the powe house of Gujarat is irrelevant today...

but the news is not unsubstantiated, the affected people have clearly stated that they were intimidated by the Sanghi goons present during the incident, hence the FIR. I have also posted the sources along with video recording of one of the concerned person supporting my claim in the related threads over here on PDF.

Look not to disregard that person, however we can't take everything at face value...recently there was a case when people claimed that they were offered to convert to Islam in order to save their houses...however this turned out to be fake....Anyhow my premise is that there are hardly any news of forced conversion...so unless and until we are not mixing ghar wapsi with forced conversion then great...

don't have any issues with "Ghar waapsi" but forced conversions and this has been my consistent view, not sure why you came to this conclusion...

Your post..anyways i don't think anyone can support forced conversion...so finally some agreement

OK Let's take your example, Why do farmers take loans from Sahukars even with 30-40% interest? Because they have no choice hence are FORCED to take loans. So there is no free will in here which is something you agree. But the premise where you used this is wrong. Compare this with a pastor/Evangelist who comes to a poor family, feeds them for a day or two, tells them that "how God has sent him to help them" and convinces them to follow "God's path" to get redemption, success etc and while doing so he also helps them monetarily. Can you see the difference? Now this God talk could be brainwashing or whatever you call but not forced, the same way as people voting for a certain party with great expectations after listening to the election promises.

Sorry but this is getting absurd now....If the same Sahukar tell the farmer look god has sent me to help you...however for god's work we need to raise money and that's why i will take 40% interest...now will that vulture turn out to be a savior??As long as the priest is not putting in condition of help and conversion then obviously there is no problem...the moment we have a condition then the same premise applies...not sure why can't we agree on such a basic thing...Look what you said earlier

I don't have a problem with money being used to lure probable converts but what I am against is forced conversions and one such incident has been reported in the recent times...
When you use money to lure desperate then how is it out of free will is beyond me...

now BJP seems to have more morons within their ranks...

I don't think we can quantify it but again i have no problems with this...

Let me remind you that Mufti is sitting on the laps of our "nationalists" aka Modi and party which means he has some kind of tacit approval from the "nationalists"... No?

This doesn't answer my question...Please don't dodge them as you claimed to be a man driven by logic...Mufti is keeping people happy...so his actions are supported by you or not??

As far as him sitting in lap of modi is concerned then this is the last thing you can accuse BJP off...If at all then they can only be hawks....Look this is the problem...you have criticized Modi of not speaking....on this topic he spoke unequivocally...yet you ignore it and accusing of some tacit understanding...that's why i said irrespective of he speaks or not nothing will satisfy people...

Yes he was in Delhi when the mess was simmering and wasn't open in media, hence he kept mum about it as it was party internal issue, but when he came back to Delhi after his treatment, he answered the questions....

Sorry but this plane wrong...please don't do this...we have spent lot of time discussing and it get's disheartening to read this...AAP problem was everything but an issue in closed doors...with both sides accusing each other openly in Media while he was still in Delhi....and for heaven sake - i have clearly said that i have no issue with him not speaking...because it is not necessary for Kejriwal to speak on every single issue...Sisodia did speak about it and it should be more than enough...Look we/media are slave to political correct postures and every day a breaking news pops out.....now for everything thing if we want CM/PM to speak then may god help them...let them decide the opportune time to speak....As long as a clear and unequivocal message is coming from the govt. let not keep that hostage to heads speaking or not...