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A Vision of a New Combined Arms Philosophy & Doctrine

those italian pieces we bought were pristine condition like box packed never shot a round in anger.
we hust need to grab the rest of chunk they have and some more here and there m109 is best arty for our theater
a low coast stucka like bomber or roughly like A10 warthog is required in large quantities like500 pieces
so we can properly support our ground invasion
drones r another equipment we need in huge numbers actually the more the better
since we r doing our own thing we need 1000 ucav to constantly pave the way and soften up targets while our manned air crafts folow and behind them is our cavilary
above all we need a c4i management system which controls and guids minutest alterations and details of battlefield
we need AI system soo advanced that it actually makes different possible scenarios and our planners chose feom it.
its all much much easy in 21 century
and chinese lead the world in this
all we need is a resolve to actually decimate the enemy
not being happy with shooting down ine bogey and leaving a chance to shoot down 20 more and possibly killing the COAS


we have our own stock of millions of enfield rifles of brit times we gave to mujs too during afghan war.


Problem with enfields is they are manual. You have to manually act before firing. Well, these are minor details for me Chinese AKs are as good as SKS in the broader scheme of things.

I have spent since 2004 thinking about fixed wing Close Air Support. I have spent an incredible amount of time and energy researching them. If we use the unconventional pulse jet hybrid I've designed we can build them for half a million a pop. If we use a piston engine maybe 1-3 million a piece. If we go the "modern" turboprop round minimum 5 million USD per piece.

I will actually come and build these for the PA if I have to as its frustrating they don't understand the importance of CAS in combined arms theory and practice. I think PA needs at least 200 units with organic employment on every division and IABG.

Couldn't agree more about buying Italian stuff. M109s if they come but if its out of reach then why not motorize towed 155mm. Would be a good substitute and does not need a specialized carrier.

About drones - we just simply emulate the most successful product out there the Turkish Bayrakthar TB2 and build the closest "JF-17 to the F-16". If you want very large number of expendable armed drones go with the pulse jet hybrid technology I've developed and outlined here: https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/a-diy-drone-cas-aircraft-for-the-paa-concept.656964/

I agree 1000 seems a good number of armed UAVs to go with. I'm glad we think so much alike! I've been banging my head on why no one sees the combined arms opportunity here since 2004 and seldom do I find a like-minded soul.

About AI systems, when I was studying and working in the US, I was involved in the tech sector where they were bringing in former military tech and using the tech for civilian purposes. One of the tech we came across was an AI that could plan theater wide strategies using big data. Something like a very primitive form of Skynet. That was back in 2007.

The easiest form of AI is algorithm based and is easily doable. You can check out my work on it here https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/ucavs-the-future-of-air-warfare.86119/
 
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Problem with enfields is they are manual. You have to manually act before firing. Well, these are minor details for me Chinese AKs are as good as SKS in the broader scheme of things.

I have spent since 2004 thinking about fixed wing Close Air Support. I have spent an incredible amount of time and energy researching them. If we use the unconventional pulse jet hybrid I've designed we can build them for half a million a pop. If we use a piston engine maybe 1-3 million a piece. If we go the "modern" turboprop round minimum 5 million USD per piece.

I will actually come and build these for the PA if I have to as its frustrating they don't understand the importance of CAS in combined arms theory and practice. I think PA needs at least 200 units with organic employment on every division and IABG.

Couldn't agree more about buying Italian stuff. M109s if they come but if its out of reach then why not motorize towed 155mm. Would be a good substitute and does not need a specialized carrier.

About drones - we just simply emulate the most successful product out there the Turkish Bayrakthar TB2 and build the closest "JF-17 to the F-16". If you want very large number of expendable armed drones go with the pulse jet hybrid technology I've developed and outlined here: https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/a-diy-drone-cas-aircraft-for-the-paa-concept.656964/

I agree 1000 seems a good number of armed UAVs to go with. I'm glad we think so much alike! I've been banging my head on why no one sees the combined arms opportunity here since 2004 and seldom do I find a like-minded soul.

About AI systems, when I was studying and working in the US, I was involved in the tech sector where they were bringing in former military tech and using the tech for civilian purposes. One of the tech we came across was an AI that could plan theater wide strategies using big data. Something like a very primitive form of Skynet. That was back in 2007.

The easiest form of AI is algorithm based and is easily doable. You can check out my work on it here https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/ucavs-the-future-of-air-warfare.86119/
soo good to see someone with actual vision to think outside the box.
btw i use to live in california where were u in states.
if we do the comparison between 1.5 billion t129 deal which is 30 pieces
in that money we can have almost a 1000 ucavs and compare the battlefield impact of both
btw whts ur take on nuclear threshold when would either side start thinking about bringing in big toys

Problem with enfields is they are manual. You have to manually act before firing. Well, these are minor details for me Chinese AKs are as good as SKS in the broader scheme of things.

I have spent since 2004 thinking about fixed wing Close Air Support. I have spent an incredible amount of time and energy researching them. If we use the unconventional pulse jet hybrid I've designed we can build them for half a million a pop. If we use a piston engine maybe 1-3 million a piece. If we go the "modern" turboprop round minimum 5 million USD per piece.

I will actually come and build these for the PA if I have to as its frustrating they don't understand the importance of CAS in combined arms theory and practice. I think PA needs at least 200 units with organic employment on every division and IABG.

Couldn't agree more about buying Italian stuff. M109s if they come but if its out of reach then why not motorize towed 155mm. Would be a good substitute and does not need a specialized carrier.

About drones - we just simply emulate the most successful product out there the Turkish Bayrakthar TB2 and build the closest "JF-17 to the F-16". If you want very large number of expendable armed drones go with the pulse jet hybrid technology I've developed and outlined here: https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/a-diy-drone-cas-aircraft-for-the-paa-concept.656964/

I agree 1000 seems a good number of armed UAVs to go with. I'm glad we think so much alike! I've been banging my head on why no one sees the combined arms opportunity here since 2004 and seldom do I find a like-minded soul.

About AI systems, when I was studying and working in the US, I was involved in the tech sector where they were bringing in former military tech and using the tech for civilian purposes. One of the tech we came across was an AI that could plan theater wide strategies using big data. Something like a very primitive form of Skynet. That was back in 2007.

The easiest form of AI is algorithm based and is easily doable. You can check out my work on it here https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/ucavs-the-future-of-air-warfare.86119/
yes that’s wht we need something like skynet
it just one card in greater scenarios but we need to out smart the enemy
 
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soo good to see someone with actual vision to think outside the box.
btw i use to live in california where were u in states.
if we do the comparison between 1.5 billion t129 deal which is 30 pieces
in that money we can have almost a 1000 ucavs and compare the battlefield impact of both
btw whts ur take on nuclear threshold when would either side start thinking about bringing in big toys


yes that’s wht we need something like skynet
it just one card in greater scenarios but we need to out smart the enemy


I was in a lot of places but mainly East Coast : )

With 1.5 billion USD I could build you 1000 UAVS AND 200 CAS fixed wing. Actually one could do that with half that amount. And we all know the availability rates of attack helicopters. Any basic technical evaluation doesn't cut it but PA doesn't make decisions based on rational choices but platform replacement basis.
 
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Here are some off-the-shelf solutions (since it seems PA is not sure footed enough to develop an aircraft of their own)

1. OV-10 Broncos (US may give these retired airframes up for free)
2. Italian AMX (Italians are willing to sell. About 30 are available and possibly very reasonable)
3. Old A-1 Skyraiders were refurbished and brought into service in the US during Vietnam. A ton of these are available and would cost pennies to the dollar. refurbishing these radial engined aircraft is a very low tech affair but these aircraft are beasts, despite their age, a bit like B-52s https://www.militarytimes.com/off-d...-place-in-the-hearts-of-us-troops-in-vietnam/
See also https://article107news.com/air-force-joke-turns-tide-afghan-war/
4. F-7PG or J-7Gs from China
5. Soon to be retired / already being phased out PLAAF CJ-6s could be converted to the lowest cost (and lowest capability) solution.
 
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Here are some off-the-shelf solutions (since it seems PA is not sure footed enough to develop an aircraft of their own)

1. OV-10 Broncos (US may give these retired airframes up for free)
2. Italian AMX (Italians are willing to sell. About 30 are available and possibly very reasonable)
3. Old A-1 Skyraiders were refurbished and brought into service in the US during Vietnam. A ton of these are available and would cost pennies to the dollar. refurbishing these radial engined aircraft is a very low tech affair but these aircraft are beasts, despite their age, a bit like B-52s https://www.militarytimes.com/off-d...-place-in-the-hearts-of-us-troops-in-vietnam/
See also https://article107news.com/air-force-joke-turns-tide-afghan-war/
4. F-7PG or J-7Gs from China
5. Soon to be retired / already being phased out PLAAF CJ-6s could be converted to the lowest cost (and lowest capability) solution.
Dear friend your great posts are music to my ears,i am getting so many ideas. Keep up the great work may Allah grace you further amin. I have some good Bengali friends here in UK.
Syara apanara kaja bhalabas
 
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View attachment 623584

As elements from the surviving II Corps escape towards Faridkot-Moga, Pakistani XXXI Corps and II Corps move to Bathinda while a brigade from the XI Corps moves towards Firozpur on the Indian side of the border.

India's entire Northern command in Kashmir is now under threat as Pakistan Army now has a free hand to move towards Ludhiana. Indian XI Corps which was assaulting the Lahore axis is now forced to rethink its position. It sends a brigade to reinforce the remaining elements of Indian II Corps and stop it being outflanked from the West.

However, IA has no solution for Pakistani XXXI Corps and II Corps moving East or North East towards Ladhiana or Chandhigar. Pakistani forces move forward towards both while further pushing the remnants of Indian II Corps northwards.

Indian Army now makes a rush attempt to contain the Pakistani breakthrough but prospects don't seem good. Pakistani XXXI Corps and II Corps are themselves stretched and exhausted. The final position looks like this.
View attachment 623590

In the broader map, you can see the relative position of forces. Pakistan has essentially taken a good chunk of Indian Punjab, Haryana, Rajasthan and Bhuj.
View attachment 623596

The timeline of events:

Week 1 - Crossborder raid by IAF and military escalation
Week 2 - IA attacks Pak Kashmir, military confrontation begins. Pak retaliates in Bhuj and attacks across international borders towards on Bhuj, Bikaner, Jodpur axis.
Week 3 - Pak overcomes IA in Bikaner and moves towards Jalandar and Chandigarh
Week 4 - Front lines begin to stabilize as India is shocked at losses
Week 5 - Ceasefire. India demands Pak retreat with promises of holding elections in Kashmir
Week 6.... (you tell me)

@PanzerKiel how did I do?

Strategies that made this victory possible.

1. Combined arms operation with a meaningful fixed wing CAS working organically via PAA with armoured divisions. See this link1 and link 2 and link 3.
Also use of armed UAVs.
2. An enlarged army using conscripts creating 10 new divisions (this could easily be even 20 new divisions). This was done at minimal cost with 2nd hand SKS from China, T-59 tanks upgraded similar to Zarrar, old 155mm towed artillery and investment in wheeled APCs. One possible innovation is to use mortar guns similar to those mounted on Russian BMP3s. These act nearly like artillery but are cheaper to produce, use and transport. Basically its a sweet spot between an artillery gun and a mortar.
These conscript divisions did the following:
a) held Western borders allowing PA and paramilitary forces to focus on the East
b) held the Coast allowing Pak marines to focus more on Bhuj
c) Held defensive positions and relieved attacking PA formations allowing PA to use its more professional forces to go forward with their attacks.

Regarding Bhuj there are actually 6 different vectors from which Pak is attacking:
1. the sea - small numbers of navy commandos / marines
2. Landbridge fromd Badin axis
3. Karunjhar over the lake (hovercraft)
4. Karunjhar around the lake
5. Heliborne
6. Paratroopers.

Where are you @Signalian I think you may like this : )

Pakistan Marines are a non exsitent force currently. Even if an amphibious attack would be a suicide for PM forces and PN ships, not all options are closed. Attack from the Creek towards east, attack from North of Creek and attack from Badin towards Bhuj should deter Indian forces from an amphibious attack and also tie down Indian forces which could have potentially been used against V-Corps in Barmer-Jaiselmer axis.

There is no Marines Division.

- i dont know why you used 33 Div which is at Quetta. Other favorable options are available.
Sooner or later either 33rd or 41st will have to join in as the war starts.
 
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There is no Marines Division.

12000 forces are almost the size of a division, that is what I am alluding to. Now, most of them are tied in defensive formations, however, my use of conscripts frees up this force for attack purposes.

At the same time, we don't want a large force going in as they will be detected before hand. From the 6 vectors I've mentioned (including mini submarine) and perhaps via boat from the Creek area, direct axis to From Badin to Bhuj, heliborne assault, around the lake, over the lake and via CAS aircraft...

Followed by larger forces moving in to consolidate the gain. Indian amphibious forces will be tied up trying to fight this war rather than attacking Pak coast. Additionally, we both agree that Indian XII Corps will be tied up dealing with this rather than engaging V Corps.

If we tie it all together, I think Bhuj is the start of the snowball that culminates in major gains up north.
 
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Sooner or later either 33rd or 41st will have to join in as the war starts.

Of course, thats my point, they are made available after a specific time, therefore initial plans cannot be implemented by them.
 
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I will let others like @Signalian @Joe Shearer @Gryphon pipe up which sector they are most interested in first. Then we can have a bit of broad contour layout on what we expect to be rallied and deployed there in various scenarios.

It will make "zoomed in" visual mapping final step (and I will get on it once enough things fleshed out), and we likely through iterations discover what the terrain constraints and contours might be.

Later on, I might look at using more 3D slant perspectives even too (for areas where this is of key relevance like artillery emplacement w.r.t pir panjal that Joe has brought up a few times) if we get time and interest for it.

There is much more to it than merely picking one or two sectors out of the hat. The India-Pakistan border is about 3,300 kms long; it has no homogeneity. What works for Siachen does not work for the Dras-Kargil sector; what works for the Dras-Kargil sector does not work in the proximity of the Neelum Valley north of the Vale of Kashmir, or in the valley of the Jhelum once it takes a right turn and goes south. My comments about the Pir Panjal were to tease our Pahadi friend; he reacted beautifully, but teasing apart, I cannot understand why we have no Kannadigas in the Indian Army. You see, in that state, there is a saying,"Don't dig a well when you are thirsty". To watch artillery batteries being set up in school playgrounds in Panzgam is bad for the blood pressure; what were the sappers doing all these years? There are perfectly good plateaus in locations nearby, and it is impossible to accept that a military highway between Panzgam and Sopore cannot be done in six months or so. The point is that this is not the time to rush around placing howitzers in people's children's playgrounds, with the guarantee that counter-battery fire will after the first couple of exchanges merely make the rubble bounce.

It gets worse further down, where the spectre of the return of Haji Pir Pass hangs over the military landscape. If you look closely, it is a U-shaped feature; that is why there is such a flood of infiltrators coming in through there. Even an amateur can stroll across - physically; he might land up with a couple of dozen machine-gun bullet perforations, but that's all right - and they do. What happens after the strolling is nasty, brutish and short, but the physical feature invites excess. Heaven knows that there is no shortage of tactical bravado and strategic myopia in certain South Asian quarters, and now that the northern approach has been used by K. S. Brar and his crew, THAT approach is tighter stitched up than Suhrawardy's jackets.

You have already mentioned my teasing our mutual friend, and I shall let that pass.

This much for the mountain warfare sections facing Pakistan and Pakistani military elements, and it does not take into account the necessary 'joint' thinking that is inescapable. We never, on the Indian side, talk about or think about linking air defence and air force elements with our terrestrial forces; the Pakistanis do. All this does not apply between Chushul and Bareilly, where we are wide open; some Chinese general in their inscrutable fashion suggested that Delhi was only a ten-day campaign away. If we look at the deployment of Indian troops in this sector, it is not very difficult to understand why he said what he did. He has probably been shot for it, but surely there are others with similar maps and plans in Chengdu.

Let us not even think about the mountain warfare situation between Darbhanga to Dibrugarh, with literally dozens of Bailley's Trails pointing straight down at the Brahmaputra Valley.

If there is no mention here of the topography beloved of @Armchair's apparently Bengali and very fertile mind, it is too good a matter to be dismissed in a paragraph or ten. Suffice it to say that tanks are not the best way to traverse the loose sand, wholly unlike the Western Desert that the 8th Army fought over, and that the only value of the southern marshlands would have been as key points of access to the soft commercial underbelly of Sind. It is good enough to look with pleasure at the Makran coast, and temple one's hands in anticipation. Somewhere else, it might have been fun to have had a go at the war games played out, perhaps with @PanzerKiel as a referee, but with the right to be able to re-organise the Indian side into formations radically different from what is on offer at the moment, a proposition that might not be permitted.

It's all your fault, @Nilgiri, not to have given us a suitable venue by now.
 
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There is much more to it than merely picking one or two sectors out of the hat. The India-Pakistan border is about 3,300 kms long; it has no homogeneity. What works for Siachen does not work for the Dras-Kargil sector; what works for the Dras-Kargil sector does not work in the proximity of the Neelum Valley north of the Vale of Kashmir, or in the valley of the Jhelum once it takes a right turn and goes south. My comments about the Pir Panjal were to tease our Pahadi friend; he reacted beautifully, but teasing apart, I cannot understand why we have no Kannadigas in the Indian Army. You see, in that state, there is a saying,"Don't dig a well when you are thirsty". To watch artillery batteries being set up in school playgrounds in Panzgam is bad for the blood pressure; what were the sappers doing all these years? There are perfectly good plateaus in locations nearby, and it is impossible to accept that a military highway between Panzgam and Sopore cannot be done in six months or so. The point is that this is not the time to rush around placing howitzers in people's children's playgrounds, with the guarantee that counter-battery fire will after the first couple of exchanges merely make the rubble bounce.

It gets worse further down, where the spectre of the return of Haji Pir Pass hangs over the military landscape. If you look closely, it is a U-shaped feature; that is why there is such a flood of infiltrators coming in through there. Even an amateur can stroll across - physically; he might land up with a couple of dozen machine-gun bullet perforations, but that's all right - and they do. What happens after the strolling is nasty, brutish and short, but the physical feature invites excess. Heaven knows that there is no shortage of tactical bravado and strategic myopia in certain South Asian quarters, and now that the northern approach has been used by K. S. Brar and his crew, THAT approach is tighter stitched up than Suhrawardy's jackets.

You have already mentioned my teasing our mutual friend, and I shall let that pass.

This much for the mountain warfare sections facing Pakistan and Pakistani military elements, and it does not take into account the necessary 'joint' thinking that is inescapable. We never, on the Indian side, talk about or think about linking air defence and air force elements with our terrestrial forces; the Pakistanis do. All this does not apply between Chushul and Bareilly, where we are wide open; some Chinese general in their inscrutable fashion suggested that Delhi was only a ten-day campaign away. If we look at the deployment of Indian troops in this sector, it is not very difficult to understand why he said what he did. He has probably been shot for it, but surely there are others with similar maps and plans in Chengdu.

Let us not even think about the mountain warfare situation between Darbhanga to Dibrugarh, with literally dozens of Bailley's Trails pointing straight down at the Brahmaputra Valley.

If there is no mention here of the topography beloved of @Armchair's apparently Bengali and very fertile mind, it is too good a matter to be dismissed in a paragraph or ten. Suffice it to say that tanks are not the best way to traverse the loose sand, wholly unlike the Western Desert that the 8th Army fought over, and that the only value of the southern marshlands would have been as key points of access to the soft commercial underbelly of Sind. It is good enough to look with pleasure at the Makran coast, and temple one's hands in anticipation. Somewhere else, it might have been fun to have had a go at the war games played out, perhaps with @PanzerKiel as a referee, but with the right to be able to re-organise the Indian side into formations radically different from what is on offer at the moment, a proposition that might not be permitted.

It's all your fault, @Nilgiri, not to have given us a suitable venue by now.


Joe, feel free to play out your war game here with whatever propositions you may wish. This is the "Lite" version of my "real" plans. And one variation of it ;)

Of course, thats my point, they are made available after a specific time, therefore initial plans cannot be implemented by them.


Point is that with the conscript forces I've shown, we have effectively coopted the quarter back position for virtually all PA formations. Additionally, with an early movement from Quetta, chances of detection and anticipation of vector becomes harder for the enemy.

In simple terms, this means that since conscript brigades are present in Quetta and along the Mekran Coast (and elsewhere), PA can move its forces from Quetta and elsewhere early and with greater freedom.

This is one of the many reasons why a conscript supplement is so vital. Surprisingly, PM Imran Khan thinks the same. How do I know? I wrote a paper for a PTI think tank in 2012 outlining my earliest version of a conscript army and in early 2019 PM IK asked for a research paper outlining the best practices of a certain country I cannot mention in doing the same - combining conscript and professional forces. I wrote the paper and handed it back but nothing came of it.

My best guess is PTI hierarchy thought it best not to meddle into PA's internal matters. So we have a surprising situation where the civilian government wishes it could field a better army but the PA wants to keep itself small and toy-like instead.
 
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Joe, feel free to play out your war game here with whatever propositions you may wish. This is the "Lite" version of my "real" plans. And one variation of it ;)

Thanks, but no, thanks.

Point is that with the conscript forces I've shown, we have effectively coopted the quarter back position for virtually all PA formations. Additionally, with an early movement from Quetta, chances of detection and anticipation of vector becomes harder for the enemy.

In simple terms, this means that since conscript brigades are present in Quetta and along the Mekran Coast (and elsewhere), PA can move its forces from Quetta and elsewhere early and with greater freedom.

This is one of the many reasons why a conscript supplement is so vital. Surprisingly, PM Imran Khan thinks the same. How do I know? I wrote a paper for a PTI think tank in 2012 outlining my earliest version of a conscript army and in early 2019 PM IK asked for a research paper outlining the best practices of a certain country I cannot mention in doing the same - combining conscript and professional forces. I wrote the paper and handed it back but nothing came of it.

My best guess is PTI hierarchy thought it best not to meddle into PA's internal matters. So we have a surprising situation where the civilian government wishes it could field a better army but the PA wants to keep itself small and toy-like instead.
 
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Suffice it to say that tanks are not the best way to traverse the loose sand, wholly unlike the West
there is no major tank movement to Bhuj. It's mainly infantry and relatively light forces light forces supported by CAS. Artillery support is provided from the heights of Karunjhar Mountains.
Phase 2 supply lines are from the Badin axis, a bridge and a road link is possible, with engineering (and time). That is when heavier forces can come in.
 
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there is no major tank movement to Bhuj. It's mainly infantry and relatively light forces light forces supported by CAS. Artillery support is provided from the heights of Karunjhar Mountains.
Phase 2 supply lines are from the Badin axis, a bridge and a road link is possible, with engineering (and time). That is when heavier forces can come in.

I was not talking about Bhuj; not everyone sees things from the point of view that you have defined.

Furthermore, given time, anything is possible, including a six-lane reinforced highway. These issues can be defined only in rules of engagement, otherwise there will only be a series of fanboy ravings on either side.

That is why I said,"Thanks,...."
 
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This thread is rather amusing due to the amateur assumptions of the OP.He has no understanding of the road-rail networks on both sides,without which you can't launch any mechanized offensive due to logistics.Total absence of understanding of logistics and terrain is shown by the talk of mechanized offensives accross marshy swamps of sindh-gujarat border.Nor does he seem to understand the significance of the canal and ditch cum bund defenses which can be flooded/act as barrier with layered defense as necessary on both sides.

His understanding of 'new' doctrine is also fantastical.Some basic mistakes are -
1.Calling for hundreds of piston engine CAS aircraft and assuming they will 'devastate' indian army by swamping them due to cheapness.It seems he has forgotten that a piston engine aircraft can be shot down by even the 12.7 mm Heavy machine gun on the tanks and 30 mm cannons on IFVs,forget the 200 odd upgraded zsu-23-4 and tunguska mobile gun-AA systems accompanying indian armour and static bofors L70 and zsu-57-2 systems.Cheap as piston engine aircraft are,you know what's cheaper ?-AA guns and MANPADS.A single soldier with even an obsolete MANPAD can 100% one shot a piston engine aircraft with a dirt cheap MANPAD.India has thousands of IGLAs deployed at platoon level.Piston engine aircraft are also defenceless against mistral/stinger armed helicopters like HAL Rudra/LCH(not yet deployed) and apaches.And all this without even getting into missile defences such as QRSAM/SPYDER, Akash, barak-8(not yet deployed).OP has also assumed that these CAS aircraft will operate will total impunity over indian airspace which means PAF has gained total air dominance over core indian territory,if you believe PAF can achieve that i commend you on your optimism.

2.OP also has developed unreal notions of breakthrough with cheap 'light' tank/car and obsolete 'upgraded' t-55 derivatives and also believes that putting ATGM on a platform makes it a breakthrough offensive weapon(in reality its a defensive weapon).Let me give you a reality check on 'light tanks'.A light tank-car can be easily defeated by even basic light infantry.Indian army platoon and some times squad level M3/M4 Carl gustav rocket launcher(which has far better accuracy at range over RPGs)/LAW are sufficient to destroy 'light' tanks and these are present in tens of thousands .Thats not even counting the 50,000 plus ATGM stock of the indian army's infantry battalions.The 4000 MILAN-2T,3000 kornet,300 NAG and 300 Spike-LR are generally kept for enemy's modern tanks but over 40,000 konkurs-m and milan 2 are available for general use which are more than enough for tin cans like the ones being proposed(infact enough for all PA armour with exception of maybe T-80UD with duplet ERA).Heavy tanks can survive MBRL barrages,soft skinned vehicles can't,as was found in ukraine where whole mechanized battalions were wiped out in seconds by MBRL attacks but heavy armour did rather well.

Hear this lecture if you want to understand modern warfare trends in maneuvre from an american veteran expert who was an on the ground observer in ukraine.

I pity the mind that thinks that these tank-car or t-55 upgrades can offensively punch through even a single regiment of dug in hull down modern tanks like a t-90.The frontal armour of the T-90 is on video in youtube shown to have survived direct hit from american TOW-2 in syria,survived 7 RPG hits in dagestan in chechen wars.The 1200 strong(400 more in production) T-90 fleet has a stock of 25,000 INVAR 4km range cannon launched ATGM also.

The real armour balance between IA and PA is ~770 modern tanks for PA-450 Al khalid + 320 T-80UD vs ~2300 modern tanks for IA- 1200 T-90 plus 1000 upgraded t-72 plus 124 arjuns.Add to this 1500 unupgraded T-72 for IA and thousands of t-55 derivatives and older chinese models for PA.
http://fofanov.armor.kiev.ua/Tanks/TRIALS/19991020.html
Russian source on T-80U vs T-90 protection levels.


3.Also the above ORBAT starting from post #124 on page 9 and plan of attack is messed up(even though commands and corps structure is due to be overhauled in next 3 years with IBG and theatre commands).He assumes that size of corps is uniform on both sides and uses the corps as a basic maneuvre unit creating fake material superiority where none exists.

Let me put into perspective -(infantry is lorry borne,mech either m-113 APC for PA or BMP-2 IFV for IA)

Southern command - Indian XII corps(1 rapid div+ 1 inf div+ 1 arm brigade+1 mech brigade) is seen being defeated and losing half of gujarat to an undisclosed airborne helicopter force and a random marine division ignoring the existence of indian air force and navy altogether or how they would be supplied over the marshes.Realistically speaking PN would be lucky to have its surface fleet survive the first 48 hours and not have karachi harbour in flames against the full might of indian navy,forget an amphibious assault with transports along the coast.The grand fantasy envisages these embarked 'marines' and light airborne forces will capture half of gujarat against a rapid division(which is 2-3 infantry/mech inf brigades plus an armoured brigade),another full infantry division quartered in ahmedabad,plus 2 more independent mechanized brigade and armoured brigade formations.Not sure if this is scenario meant to be serious or ganja humour.The air borne force penetration (if its gets through IAF) being proposed in gujarat can be crushed by just the sole infantry division,leaving all the mechanized formations to entreat the pak armour movements further north.The petty hovercraft penetrations proposed can be simply dealt with by the BSF and coast guard.The size of the BSF is 260,000 compared to 40,000 for pak rangers to put things in perspective.So the whole gujarat -bhuj front is a fantasy.

Now little to the north coming to southern rajasthan sector,what the fantasy in gujarat has allowed the OP is to artificially negate on paper 3 mechanized and 2 armoured brigades of indian southern command as if they didn't exist,and thus not allocate any pakistani forces in sindh to oppose them by imagining they are defeated by vague airborne troops and some imaginery marine division just so he can now focus 2 corps in this sector,creating a fake local superiority.Infact 12 RAPID division(2 mech brig+1 amd brig) of indian XII corps is not even in gujarat,and actually based at Jodhpur and will face action in rajasthan.

Here,Pakistan 12corps is brought in which in reality is in Quetta garrisoning balochistan against an uprising and manning the afghan border.Even allowing this its 2 infantry divisions,1 armd brigade and 1 inf brigade.Add 5th corps (freed up because of gujarat fantasy) with 2 infantry divisions and a mechanized inf div(25th,not sure composition) still total attacking force is 4 infantry divisions,1 inf brigade and,1 armd brigade and 1 mech div.Against this will be pitted XXI strike corps plus 12 RAPID at jodhpur (even if we magically ignore indp armd brigade and indp mech brigde of XII corps keeping in line with gujarat fantasy,when in reality they would crash into the open flank of pak 5th corps from the south in any attempted turning move).Even ignoring them you have 2 RAPID divisions,a full armoured division,an infantry division and an artillery division with its own smerch battalions and brahmos regiment(~100 missiles plus 100 reload) and field arty.Upto the observer to decide who has better chances in the open desert - total 13 inf brigades,2 amd brgde,1-2 mech brgde vs 4 amd brigades,3 inf brigades,4-6 inf/ mechanized brigades ,1 artillery division).I am not shifting any units from eastern command to counter 12 corps shift from quetta due to china threat.

In OP's scheme,moving further north around bikaner Indian I strike corps is attacked by Pak 2nd strike corps(1 amd div plus 1 mech inf div) and 31 corps(2 infantry divs +1 mech inf div) over the rajasthan canal.However here OP has made a mistake in his ORBAT.2 whole Rapid divisions under X corps have been placed much north ,whereas they are actually deployed in bikaner and kota in this axis.(24 RAPID at bikaner,18 RAPID reserve at kota).So in case of a attempted pincer attack on this front by pak 2nd and 31 corps it will face overwhelming forces.The balance of forces would be 2 pak infantry divs,2 mech inf divs and 1 armoured division against india's 3 full rapid divisions,1 armoured division,1 infantry division and 1 independent armoured brigade(iab),plus a full artillery division(with integral smerch and brahamos regiments).The result would be a decimation of the pakistani attack at worst,a huge battle of attrition at best.

By prematurely deploying the PA 2nd strike corps and its armoured division,OP also creates a crisis further up north.Pak XI corps(wrongly shown as IX corps probably typo) is seen as a defensive force(11 corps presumably redeployed from NWFP in peshawar) with 1 or 2 infantry divisions and one iab facing indian X corps with one infantry div and one iab in defense.(its two rapid divisions fighting in bikaner axis)
Now here the indian II strike corps -the kharga corps which is the elite tip of the spear formation(500 t-90 and 500 bmp-2 approx) of the indian army is free to make its move.The kharga corps has one armoured division,one rapid division,one iab( overstrength),one artillery division and one infantry division.The forward advance of the PA 2nd strike corps removes any obstacle from its path and essentially gives it a free run to do its traditional job.The kharga corps has an open field to race south-west towards rahim yar khan and then jacobabad blocking off N5 and n55 highway,cutting off punjab from sindh and splitting pakistan in two.This movement would also put it into the rear of pak attacking forces in bikaner axis(31st and 2nd) encircling them and annihilating them in a hammer anvil with II kharga corps as hammer and I strike corps plus elements of X corps as anvil.
So i consider the 2 prong attack plan on bikaner as suicidal,would certainly lead to destruction of the two attacking PA corps due to kharga corps attack and resulting sandwich between two strike corps of indian army.

Further north in the lahore-amritsar axis OP's scheme pits pakistan 4th corps(with 2 inf div,one inf brigde,one arty bgde,one iab) against IA XI corps with 3 infantry divisions,one arty bgde,one iab,one mech brigade).IA superiority is marginal and insufficient for major advance.XI corps if needed can however easily detatch a mechanized brigade north or south and still maintain slight numerical superiority.No hard progress on any side can be expected here.

Further north in sakargarh -pathankot -akhnoor area you have pakistan 1st strike corps and 30 corps vs IX corps and XVI corps of india.72 mountain strike corps(MSC) division based at pathankot(currently being reorganized into IBGs) is reserve which can go north towards china border or west towards pakistan.Combination of 30 corps (two infantry divs + iab +arty division+AT bgde) and 1st strike corps(two infantry divisions+iab +arty bgd+ one armoured division) for total of 4 infantry div,2iab,2artybgd,1 amd div,AT bgd is an impressive concentration. Combined indian formations would amount to 6 infantry divisions(incl MSC),4 iab,1artybgd.Battle here would be a ferocious .

Further north,due to difficult terrain no major advances in LOC except localized operations .India certain to make an attempt on haji pir which it foolishly gave back in 1965 after capture and the bulge is major source of infiltration.

5.Finally the role of raising hundreds of thousands of conscripts in this scheme is meaningless.Conscripts will have to be fed and supplied,have very limited military utility,and would get massacred if facing regular formations with armour and artillery(may hold back infantry for limited time).Also not explained why hundreds of thousands of conscripts are added to Pak ORBAT ,but 1 million strong active paramilitary forces of india not similarly accounted for ,or the territorial army or reserve manpower over 2 million .
 
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