A rare photo of His Imperial Majesty the Emperor Showa, in Imperial Naval Uniform, circa 1935

[Aepsilons]

It's Hypocrisy my friend

In my position, i have never , never denied the humanitarian grievances that Japan caused in the War in Asia, in fact if you actually research my post history in this forum, i have always noted this and have even tried to build a rapport with Chinese members here in regards to finding constructive ways to respect the dead on both sides. It has always been a precarious position , given the emotion-driven members.

I suppose we should consider the humanitarian violations of the Soviet Red Army in Manchuria, what about the KMT's humanitarian violations in Kunming, in Guangdong, in Shanghai? What about the humanitarian violations and abuses of the Dutch and British in Java, especially in the Battle of Surabaya ? What about the French violations of human rights when they initiated a war to retake FrenchIndochina and conducted a long a grueling guerilla warfare with the Viet Minh? What about the American war to colonize the Philippines in 1898-1901 which had resulted in over 2-4 million Filipino deaths? Why do we not talk about these things? Why is it that they are forgotten and swept under the pages of history? And why is it that only Japan is targetted for our mishaps in WW2?

You see i am in no way a supporter of denialism. Rather, some of our Chinese friends here who are either imbued with an agenda to malign me and others who think outside the box, fail to see the necessity in understanding history on an objective lens. Not merely reading word for word state-sponsored and state-written accounts of the war sympathetic tot he state.

That is what I am about.

 

[TMA]

Your what-if question do not have any significance. Unless you want to go back to history and find out any details, history doesn't mean anything to you. Is this you try to tell us?

Unfortuneately in the world today, power which rests on the foundation of "disbelief" (kufr) my question has no significance. You are right. However if power rested on the foundations of faith my question would have significance.

Also my question was not a what if.

What is wrong with going back to history? Scientists go back on science theories and find errors and improve their understanding.

 

[Abacin]

Remains stable until WW III breaks out.

One must be objective in trying to get to truth. That win has led to Gog and Magog taking even more control over Mankind. Now thankfully Russia (undergoing a period of transition back to her spiritual roots) along with China is standing up to the oppressor. No one is denying that China was victorious in WW II.

If you want to be objective, you need to establish a measure. In history, the measure is the people, not your subjective thinking.
In terms of countries, Russia didn't explain Soviet Union history correctly. It paid the price, the soviet union collapsed, Russia hard made industrial systems collapsed. China adapts to explain the history correctly, China rises. India doesn't explain history correctly, showed sympathy to imperial Japan and Dalai Lama. India is still mired in caste system and religious politics, and India remains one of the poorest countries in this planet. Japan tried to reverse the explanation of WWII history, Japan is rapidly falling; when it respected the WWII win, Japan was one of the rapid growing country.

 

[Aepsilons]

Even with the win, United States removed colonization in Philippines, British gave independence to India.

Well technically the United States had promised the Filipino president Manuel Quezon of Philippine independence by 1946. The Philippines then had been an American protectorate. When Japan liberated the Philippines from the United States in 1942, we gifted the Philippines with independencein 1943 and they had their first 'independent' president, President Jose P. Laurel. After the United States invaded the Philippines in 1944 , they then occupied the country until it was given 'independence' again in 1946.

Independence was promised actually by plebiscite back in 1930s, a decade before the start of WW2. You need to improve your understanding of Asian history. As for India; pro-independence movement in British India started in the early 20th century as early as the 1912-1914 era. The British Empire's collapse was inevitable, in fact, maintaining empire was costing the British money, not gaining. The collapse was inevitable, the war merely expedited its collapse.

 

[The Sandman]

In my position, i have never , never denied the humanitarian grievances that Japan caused in the War in Asia, in fact if you actually research my post history in this forum, i have always noted this and have even tried to build a rapport with Chinese members here in regards to finding constructive ways to respect the dead on both sides. It has always been a precarious position , given the emotion-driven members.

I suppose we should consider the humanitarian violations of the Soviet Red Army in Manchuria, what about the KMT's humanitarian violations in Kunming, in Guangdong, in Shanghai? What about the humanitarian violations and abuses of the Dutch and British in Java, especially in the Battle of Surabaya ? What about the French violations of human rights when they initiated a war to retake FrenchIndochina and conducted a long a grueling guerilla warfare with the Viet Minh? What about the American war to colonize the Philippines in 1898-1901 which had resulted in over 2-4 million Filipino deaths? Why do we not talk about these things? Why is it that they are forgotten and swept under the pages of history? And why is it that only Japan is targetted for our mishaps in WW2?

You see i am in no way a supporter of denialism. Rather, some of our Chinese friends here who are either imbued with an agenda to malign me and others who think outside the box, fail to see the necessity in understanding history on an objective lens. Not merely reading word for word state-sponsored and state-written accounts of the war sympathetic tot he state.

That is what I am about.

Or the rapes/war crimes the soviets commted not only on germans but where ever they go or the Genocide of native indians or the bombing of hiroshima but as they say Victors writes the history my friend and media is an important part of this

 

[Abacin]

Just like the stocks, it is the stock price which determines whether your explanation is the truth. If you make money, you are getting the truth; if you lose money, no matter what you think, you are a nerd.

 

[Dungeness]

So you are not concerned with the truth? Just whatever the victor had written? Would you still say that if Japan had been victorious?

So you are not concerned with the truth? Just whatever the victor had written? Would you still say that if Japan had been victorious?

Truth? Whose version of truth is the truth? If you want to see Japanese version of truth, just read their high school history text book, and see how they justified their acts in WWII. Or, you could go back 70 years in time to find out for yourself? Only history you can be sure about is your personal history. Everything else is some version of truth, so I think you should keep this in mind.

 

[Aepsilons]

Or the rapes/war crimes the soviets commted not only on germans but where ever they go or the Genocide of native indians or the bombing of hiroshima but as they say Victors writes the history my friend and media is an important part of this

That is what I'm talking about. I do not mean any disrespect to my American friends in here or to my American and Western friends whom i maintain friendship with; but what I do not agree is how the West portrays itself with almost innocence and wash their hands from any guilt. Mind you that it was even the Roman Catholic Church who urged the Spanish and Portuguese to stop using American Indians (Mesoamericans) as slave labor, rather, use and import Africans to protect the native indios in the American continent. They (the West) thus started the Slave Trade that lead to the involuntary capture of Western Africans from the Gold Coast to fuel the colonial development of British American colonies, the Spanish colony of Nueva Espana, La Plata y La Gran Columbia, not to mention the Portuguese empire in Brasilia. Not to mention the Dutch empire in Curasao , Aruba, in Suriname. What about the British sanctioned slave labor of bringing in natives from South Asia to Africa, to their colonies in the Caribbean and South America? What about the Dutch use of slave labor by forcibly bringing Javanese people to their colony in Suriname?

This is not even talked about , rather, is even accepted? Yet when in regards to Japan ? There is insipid attack. What about everyone else who did far worse throughout history? They are forgiven?

Is history really fair? Does history written by the victors of war really consider the other view?

 

[TMA]

Truth? Whose version of truth is the truth? If you want to see Japanese version of truth, just read their high school history text book, and see how they justified their acts in WWII. Or, you could go back 70 years in time to find out for yourself? Only history you can be sure about is your personal history. Everything else is some version of truth, so I think you should keep this in mind.

Well first of all one needs to have an impartial trial.

If there are different "versions" of truth why aren't the Japanese allowed to have their own "version" if the Chinese have theirs?

 

[Abacin]

Well technically the United States had promised the Filipino president Manuel Quezon of Philippine independence by 1946. The Philippines then had been an American protectorate. When Japan liberated the Philippines from the United States in 1942, we gifted the Philippines with independencein 1943 and they had their first 'independent' president, President Jose P. Laurel. After the United States invaded the Philippines in 1944 , they then occupied the country until it was given 'independence' again in 1946.

Independence was promised actually by plebiscite back in 1930s, a decade before the start of WW2. You need to improve your understanding of Asian history. As for India; pro-independence movement in British India started in the early 20th century as early as the 1912-1914 era. The British Empire's collapse was inevitable, in fact, maintaining empire was costing the British money, not gaining. The collapse was inevitable, the war merely expedited its collapse.

That's why I said that WWII evolved into the win of people. As long as colonization was there, there were fighting for independence. But this win was only realized with WWII win. Japan need to apologize not because of colonization (French, British, USA also did), not because of losing the war, not because of killing people and soldiers, but the behavior of massive killing based on ethnic differentiation. Hitler and Showa were criminals for ethnic level killing. This kind of killing put all human beings in danger. Even for japan as a single nation state, when you lost the war, the winner could terminate you.

People condemned Nazi Germany and Imperial Japan because their behaviors threat everyone's safety. There may be many killings and rapes by Soviets or Allied Armies, but they do not threat the survival of an ethnic group and do not threat the safety of people living with different ethnic groups.

 

[Aepsilons]

That's why I said that WWII evolved into the win of people. As long as colonization was there, there were fighting for independence. But this win was only realized with WWII win. Japan need to apologize not because of colonization (French, British, USA also did), not because of losing the war, not because of killing people and soldiers, but the behavior of massive killing based on ethnic differentiation. Hitler and Showa were criminals for ethnic level killing. This kind of killing put all human beings in danger. Even for japan as a single nation state, when you lost the war, the winner could terminate you.

Well, to be honest one of the main objectives of Japan in the war was to help Asian brothers to eject western colonialism. A vision of having an Asia for Asians. In fact Japanese soldiers helped to train Viet minh for their eventual war with French; the Japanese soldiers in Indonesia even helped to train Sotomo , a leader in pro-independence movement in Indonesia. Japan had created the 'Greater East Asian Co Prosperity Sphere', an almost progenitor of ASEAN, and East Asian FTA paradigm ; a head of its time, i suppose.

Unfortunately it was not realized effectively due to the war.

 

[Abacin]

The sentence of nazi Germany and Imperial Japan is not about victory, not about dignity, not about revenge, but about the safety of ethnic groups, the safety of your off springs.

Well, to be honest one of the main objectives of Japan in the war was to help Asian brothers to eject western colonialism. A vision of having an Asia for Asians. In fact Japanese soldiers helped to train Viet minh for their eventual war with French; the Japanese soldiers in Indonesia even helped to train Sotomo , a leader in pro-independence movement in Indonesia. Japan had created the 'Greater East Asian Co Prosperity Sphere', an almost progenitor of ASEAN, and East Asian FTA paradigm ; a head of its time, i suppose.

Unfortunately it was not realized effectively due to the war.

That was your slogan. You killed much and much Asians than Western colonizers. How can you have Asian Asia by killing Asians?

 

[TMA]

That's why I said that WWII evolved into the win of people. As long as colonization was there, there were fighting for independence. But this win was only realized with WWII win. Japan need to apologize not because of colonization (French, British, USA also did), not because of losing the war, not because of killing people and soldiers, but the behavior of massive killing based on ethnic differentiation. Hitler and Showa were criminals for ethnic level killing. This kind of killing put all human beings in danger. Even for japan as a single nation state, when you lost the war, the winner could terminate you.

People condemned Nazi Germany and Imperial Japan because their behaviors threat everyone's safety. There may be many killings and rapes by Soviets or Allied Armies, but they do not threat the survival of an ethnic group and do not threat the safety of people living with different ethnic groups.

The use of atomic bombs certainly threaten...all of Mankind. The USSR did threaten many ethnic groups in the erstwile USSR. Those groups who did not like the oppression. The first victim was Russians.(Thank God they have survived and are getting stronger). The USA practically finished off the natives of America - is that not threatening ethnic survival?

 

[Aepsilons]

when you lost the war, the winner could terminate you.

No one in the civilized world thinks like that. There were various Franco-Prussian wars, and never had the Prussians revenged themselves on the French when they were victorious. In the wars between Russia and the Prussians and the Austrian Hapsburg Empire, the conclusion of war usually resulted in land territory changes, or payment of indemnities, not the destruction of an entire nation state. Your understanding of western history and military history is poor and probably only to your imaginary mind.

 

[Dungeness]

Well first of all one needs to have an impartial trial.

If there are different "versions" of truth why aren't the Japanese allowed to have their own "version" if the Chinese have theirs?

This is a valid point. Now you know there are many version of "truth". It is naive to find so called "THE TRUTH" of the history. Do you think those photos I posted are truth?

It is ok for Japanese to have their own version of "truth", then they have to face China, Korea, US and other countries' constant criticism. Because the last thing we want to see is a general of young people being brainwashed (see I know how to use this word too) to believe what their ancestors did to other people was Honorable and justified, which may eventually result a few new bombs upon themselves.