A Question Of Moral

[Windjammer]

Pakistanis wishful answer to this thread is,

Pakistani soldiers are professional, disciplined brave martial race and so have good morale
and Indian soldiers are unprofessional coward and so dont have good morale and take their own life and others life.

SO windjammer, I have given you answer exactly what you expect.

What. ? no "acts of terrorism in Pakistan" to post.....if nothing to contribute than kindly disappear.

 

[Bhairava]

Ok sunshine If what u just said that "Pakistan army pull the trigger first and think later " is true, than how the hell are Americans and NATO are sitting in Afghanistan . Pakistan army just need to press the trigger and send the welcome missiles to Afghanistan on their posts and annihilate them. But we not seeing this . So tell me from where u r thinking now a days FROM UR **** or is it IndiaTV that is doing the THINKING job for u.

Do you think Pakistani Army is as stupid as this -- sure you will send missiles into Afghanistan and annihilate them and the Fifth fleet standding guard will shower rose petals on Pakistan...dudeeeeeeeeee.

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And yeah who knows Pak Army releases all statistics of fratricide...fratricide in times of relative peace [like in Kashmir now] is hard to conceal compared to times of war where every death automatically becomes a 'shaheed'.

not necessarily true -- but cant discount this scenario.

 

[Paan Singh]

Even Suicide rate in U.S army is more than india.In India,per 100000 there are 6 suicides.
Now you dont know the reason for the suicides,lets assume that the condition in which they are living is responsible for that.
and you will find same in case of U.S army since you can see many suicides in A-stan.There might be family prob or anything or sometimes behavior of the colleagues.

But it has no link with the morale of the army ever.You cleverly linked suicides with morale and patriotism.WOW....

 

[Bhairava]

Even Suicide rate in U.S army is more than india.In India,per 100000 there are 6 suicides.
Now you dont know the reason for the suicides,lets assume that the condition in which they are living is responsible for that.
and you will find same in case of U.S army since you can see many suicides in A-stan.There might be family prob or anything or sometimes behavior of the colleagues.

But it has no link with the morale of the army ever.You cleverly linked suicides with morale and patriotism.WOW....

There have been cases in which the US soldier committed fratricide because he found his wife was screwing with another guy while he was on tour of duty....

 

[Green Hornet]

The reason for mentioning fake encounter was that no army plays by the book, hence the reason for a soldier to take his own life just because he can't shoot his enemy wears pretty thin....wouldn't you agree. !!

Pretty thin?? Doesn't this factor(can't shoot the enemy) along with others i mentioned can depress and frustrate a soldier??
I never said that this was the only factor, but it is a significant one too!!

 

[Bhai Zakir]

Few cents:

1.) India have 100% transparency and democracy no hidden or fudged data.

2.) India's forces are many times larger then pakistan so the figure look big.

3.) India is developing very fast so the soldier misses the comfort and pleasures which the civilians enjoys in world's 2nd fastest growing economy.

 

[Green Hornet]

Ok sunshine If what u just said that "Pakistan army pull the trigger first and think later " is true, than how the hell are Americans and NATO are sitting in Afghanistan . Pakistan army just need to press the trigger and send the welcome missiles to Afghanistan on their posts and annihilate them. But we not seeing this . So tell me from where u r thinking now a days FROM UR **** or is it IndiaTV that is doing the THINKING job for u.

Do you think pakistani army is stupid enough to shoot on NATO and the americans??

Your famed AASMANI ARMY and LAND OF PURE will be wiped out of the map and no UMMAH will be able to save you.

Seems like its you whose thoughts are coming straight from your farting a$$.

Few cents:

3.) India is developing very fast so the soldier misses the comfort and pleasures which the civilians enjoys in world's 2nd fastest growing economy.

I think this is a very valid point.

 

[KingMamba]

Even Suicide rate in U.S army is more than india.In India,per 100000 there are 6 suicides.
Now you dont know the reason for the suicides,lets assume that the condition in which they are living is responsible for that.
and you will find same in case of U.S army since you can see many suicides in A-stan.There might be family prob or anything or sometimes behavior of the colleagues.

But it has no link with the morale of the army ever.You cleverly linked suicides with morale and patriotism.WOW....

Usually the soldiers who are sent back for multiple tours are more inclined to be suicidal. It doesn't help that they aren't given enough help until they are too late. It must be extremely stressful being a soldier in a country where you don't even speak the same language as the inhabitants.

 

[Bhai Zakir]

Do you think pakistani army is stupid enough to shoot on NATO and the americans??

Your famed AASMANI ARMY and LAND OF PURE will be wiped out of the map and no UMMAH will be able to save you.

Seems like its you whose thoughts are coming straight from your farting a$$.



I think this is a very valid point.

Yes, it is.

We are all human everyone wants comforts and when there are so much development and opportunities who wants to be in the barren desert or mountain top 1000 kms away from family.

If troops don't have any opportunity for job or earning and they will see food, good life no power cuts, safety in army they will join the army.

 

[Windjammer]

Pakistan army busily hides its suicide among its troops.Acc to my sources in Small War journals(SWJ) dozens of PA soldiers are killed in fratricide and suicide each year.BUT PA passes them of as killed in insurgent attacks or accidents Morever my relative when posted in poonch witnessed a Pakistan ranger firing on colonel of PA and other soldiers before killing himself in 2007.
Even US army and Royal army have suicide rates exceeding 20 per 100000,Indian Army has a rate less than 10 per 100000.

So something Indians could see from across the border, yet the home folks remain oblivions.

 

[gubbi]

I know where you are coming from, however, if PA was all gung ho, i am sure it wouldn't be suffering as many casualties,

That is where training comes in. The terrorists which PA is fighting are no different than what IA and Paramilitary forces faced during the height of insurgency/militancy in Kashmir and Punjab before that. The difference is that India identified the problem, acknowledged it and IA rapidly adapted to the situation to come up with one of the best COIN training/ops out there.
Contrast that with Afghan Taliban (and to some extent TTP) being viewed as 'assets' by majority in the Pakistani establishment.

but as for restrictions on IA, you can not deny the fake encounter episode in this regard. just my two cents.

You cannot compare collateral damage with fake encounters. A few stories of rouge officers - who ended up being taken to task by the media and punished by the Indian judiciary is no comparison with thousands being caught between the PA and the Taliban firefights. The Pakistani media has virtually no presence in the conflict areas and no one knows what goes on there except for what the Army tells you. There is no accountability for the PA. So, even if soldiers turn their weapons on their superiors, we the outsiders would never or rarely know about that.

 

[Xestan]

There are many reasons for that, first I would say is the leadership, when your seniors lead from the front, the junior soldiers' morale is automatically boosted, the other reason is their faith, of course you can disagree with me, but I have seen it, even after taking so many casualties, a "Naara e Takbeer" boost up the morale, the help of Religion is also very useful here..

 

[Rajaraja Chola]

Ok sunshine If what u just said that "Pakistan army pull the trigger first and think later " is true, than how the hell are Americans and NATO are sitting in Afghanistan . Pakistan army just need to press the trigger and send the welcome missiles to Afghanistan on their posts and annihilate them. But we not seeing this . So tell me from where u r thinking now a days FROM UR **** or is it IndiaTV that is doing the THINKING job for u.

Mr.brilliant wen we are talking about insurgencies, where does this US come?
The military knows very well of the consequences of killing NATO soldiers in "trigger first, think later"...
What he is trying to say is, PA can openly kill people involved in insurgencies against the state and no one questions them, but its not the same for india, hence out of frustration, fake encounters, and even suicides may take cos of pressures !!!
I think just recently SC have pulled up ISI and army for dissappearance of people in balochistan, which have lessly done before...

 

[Mav3rick]

So something Indians could see from across the border, yet the home folks remain oblivions.

Honestly my friend, what else did you expect from Indians when you started this thread?

Contrast that with Afghan Taliban (and to some extent TTP) being viewed as 'assets' by majority in the Pakistani establishment.

TTP considered an 'asset'.........next you will claim Hamid Karzai and Leon Panetta are ISI agents too!!

Posts like this affirm my belief that it's easier to teach monkeys trigonometry then to teach Indians common sense. I wonder if you all are retards or only retarded Indians are allowed by India to post in this forum!!

 

[foxbat]

Without Chest Thumping, kindly answer the following.

India and Pakistan both deploy professional armies, the Indian security forces are at most facing separatists and insurgency movements, while Pakistani forces are in a virtual war against well armed and trained terrorists. The alternate casualty figure also explains the ferocity of battle heat each army is facing. Soldiers world over are known to suffer from stress of duty and battle fatigue. This dilemma is known to lead the individual going to extreme measures by taking his own life. The Indian army is also prone to such cases, where a soldier has turned the gun on himself and sometimes even towards the fellow colleagues. If stress and fatigue were the only causes for a soldier to commit suicide, then it's suffice to say, in the present circumstances, Pakistani soldiers must be operating under one of the most hostile environment, yet, in recent times, no such drastic loss has been suffered by the Pakistan Army. Could this be due to how these soldiers are mentally and physically trained and prepared, I will not mention patriotism since every soldier is a patriot for his country. We have several serving and retired Military Personal on this forum, their input on the subject will be highly valuable and appreciated.

My 2 cents

1. At times, heat of the battle is much better psychologically than a low intensity waiting game. In the full blown battle you are too busy surviving for your mind to play tricks on you.

2. Pakistani army has a much more deep rooted religious texture. Much more than Indian army. While this religious texture is one of the main reasons for Pakistan's problems today, it also plays a stabilizing role in the armed forces.

Again, just my 2 cents.. May be right or wrong.. No offense