A Question Of Moral

[Windjammer]

Thanks for that Taimi, i mentioned India/Pakistan in the sense that they are both based in home territories, some Indian member dragged in American and British soldiers, for they also suffer from the same dilemma. Although this is true, i deliberately didn't quote any Western source, since for British and US forces, being stationed in say Iraq and Afghanistan is a different ball game than Indian and Pakistani troops being deployed just in another part of their own country, more over they go through much more sever trauma than facing a low intensity insurgency, however one can not deny that currently the Pakistani troops are going through a much severe conditions than those experienced by others. !!

 

[khail007]

Actually, paksitani army is answerable to no one, it can shoot first and think later.

But life of an indian soldier is much difficult, he has to think first and shoot later. Indian army knows its enemies and their support structure but the thing is that indian govt. pathetic vote bank policy is holding army's hand.

You see the difference here, knowing an enemy and not being able to eliminate him(indian army) is far more frustrating than shooting indiscriminately and not needing to reply anyone(pakistani army).

Add poor work condition, fatigue and not able to eliminate its enemies to this frustration and you will get an angry soldier. I mean when a soldier knows that it can't kill an enemy, he will get frustrated as he doesn't know why is his giving life for. Indian political class has failed its soldiers.

I think both the armies are highly well trained and professional, its just that indian army operates with a hill of after thoughts on its head.

On one hand you claim that, PAKISTANI soldeir do not have to think before pressing the triger and Indians have to think. So, your statement reflects that, comitting suicide and killing their colleagues is a thinkful act of an Indain soldier? Please elaborate on first part of your satement.

 

[Roybot]

Do we have any data on the number of suicides/fratricides in Pakistan Army? We can't compare and draw conclusions if we don't have data from both the sides.

 

[swathi]

Few cents:

1.) India have 100% transparency and democracy no hidden or fudged data.

2.) India's forces are many times larger then pakistan so the figure look big.

3.) India is developing very fast so the soldier misses the comfort and pleasures which the civilians enjoys in world's 2nd fastest growing economy.

Another thing Unlike Airforce and Navy Army Soldiers cant be with their families, that may also be one of the reason. But Unlike members of other wings army soldiers cant be with their families all the time due to the nature of their job.

 

[Areesh]

Actually, paksitani army is answerable to no one, it can shoot first and think later.

But life of an indian soldier is much difficult, he has to think first and shoot later. Indian army knows its enemies and their support structure but the thing is that indian govt. pathetic vote bank policy is holding army's hand.

Hahahahaha

http://www.defence.pk/forums/kashmir-war/190358-kashmir-killing-ebbs-but-killers-roam-free.html

 

[Thorough Pro]

I think the soldiers turning guns on themselves or on colleagues has more to do with their conscience then the stree of war. If they are involved in acts of "milllitary terrorism" during the heat of war then if their conscience is alive they would suffer from sleepless nights, nightmares and may become violent and tend to kill themselves and /or their comerades in war.

Soldiers who remain professional and ethical during war, normally don't face such consequences.

Without Chest Thumping, kindly answer the following.

India and Pakistan both deploy professional armies, the Indian security forces are at most facing separatists and insurgency movements, while Pakistani forces are in a virtual war against well armed and trained terrorists. The alternate casualty figure also explains the ferocity of battle heat each army is facing. Soldiers world over are known to suffer from stress of duty and battle fatigue. This dilemma is known to lead the individual going to extreme measures by taking his own life. The Indian army is also prone to such cases, where a soldier has turned the gun on himself and sometimes even towards the fellow colleagues. If stress and fatigue were the only causes for a soldier to commit suicide, then it's suffice to say, in the present circumstances, Pakistani soldiers must be operating under one of the most hostile environment, yet, in recent times, no such drastic loss has been suffered by the Pakistan Army. Could this be due to how these soldiers are mentally and physically trained and prepared, I will not mention patriotism since every soldier is a patriot for his country. We have several serving and retired Military Personal on this forum, their input on the subject will be highly valuable and appreciated.

 

[Dark Warrior]

So something Indians could see from across the border, yet the home folks remain oblivions.

Just because you suffer from 'short-sightedness' doesn't mean everyone has that.Anyways you don't have to be an eagle to see incidents happening 150-200m in front of you.
I feel sorry for the PA colonel who came in full combat uniform to inspect forward posts but had to go back in a coffin.RIP.

NOTE:A similar incident happened with PA in Siachen in 1994.

 

[Fazlu]

The very basic premise of the op is flawed. It is a very well known and recorded ( however grudgingly ) fact that the PA is occasionally faced with officers and soldiers refusing to fight and sometimes-- causing dissent.

As gubbi pointed out, there is also the case of very limited media coverage of Pakistani armed forces personnel---unlike in India where most of our dealings are transparent.

 

[Areesh]

So something Indians could see from across the border, yet the home folks remain oblivions.

I don't know why but such type of cr@p and rubbish stuff is always told to these guys by some "friend or relative" in the military. Have heard a lot such my friend in IA or IAF told me or my relative in IA told me stories on this forum.

Are these just make up stories by these guys or those friends or relatives are a liars too just like these guys.

 

[Windjammer]

Just because you suffer from 'short-sightedness' doesn't mean everyone has that.Anyways you don't have to be an eagle to see incidents happening 150-200m in front of you.
I feel sorry for the PA colonel who came in full combat uniform to inspect forward posts but had to go back in a coffin.RIP.

NOTE:A similar incident happened with PA in Siachen in 1994.

Are you ready to accept any claims by me without a link, hence words of mouth are as credible as an ash tray on a motor cycle.

The very basic premise of the op is flawed. It is a very well known and recorded ( however grudgingly ) fact that the PA is occasionally faced with officers and soldiers refusing to fight and sometimes-- causing dissent.

As gubbi pointed out, there is also the case of very limited media coverage of Pakistani armed forces personnel---unlike in India where most of our dealings are transparent.

Did you even understand the psyche of the subject, there may have been cases where the FC guys didn't open fire on miscreants, but what does that has to do with the topic, where a soldier sitting in his quarters decides to end his life.
You guys make it sound as if the IA has freelance journalist embedded with it's units, recall how the recent incident at Indo/China border and reportedly troop movement in Delhi have been swept under the carpet, in any case subject is what causes a soldier to take their own life. !!

 

[Windjammer]

I don't know why but such type of cr@p and rubbish stuff is always told to these guys by some "friend or relative" in the military. Have heard a lot such my friend in IA or IAF told me or my relative in IA told me stories on this forum.

Are these just make up stories by these guys or those friends or relatives are a liars too just like these guys.

I once posted some incidents detail on IAF, which i read in various issues of Air Forces Monthly magazines.
The Indian members asked for the source, which i duly explained, but they were adamant that i copy and paste each and every incident from the magazines..... suffice to say, whatever floats their boat.

 

[Mike2011]

Pakistan... No data.

 

[notorious_eagle]

That is where training comes in. The terrorists which PA is fighting are no different than what IA and Paramilitary forces faced during the height of insurgency/militancy in Kashmir and Punjab before that. The difference is that India identified the problem, acknowledged it and IA rapidly adapted to the situation to come up with one of the best COIN training/ops out there.

Goes to tell me that how much you really know about this WOT and the Kashmir War. The lowly trained lightly equipped fighters in Kashmir are no where near battle hardened, trained and equipped like the Taliban fighters. There is a reason why the mightiest military power in the world has not been able to defeat these ferocious warriors. Kashmir is no where near as bloody as the WOT is. The only reason why things in Kashmir died down is because those fighters left to fight the bigger enemy in Afghanistan, didn't had much to do with brilliance of IA.

Contrast that with Afghan Taliban (and to some extent TTP) being viewed as 'assets' by majority in the Pakistani establishment.

Indeed, we are backing the people whom are trying to blow us up . Great analogy (Y)