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A question From History of Pak Armed Forces.

Errr... the first SOS call sign by the desperate Indian sector commander was, send a bottle of whiskey......let's just say, thirst was still there but not the appetite. :)
It was probably diverted towards the SSG commandos of Pakistan that were captured by Indian civilians ;)
 
Well R/Adm Ahmed Tasnim is the only sub commander who sunk an indian ship (INS Kukri) in 1971.
, and later is became Commander Pakistan Fleet, after which he retired.

However, I would like to name an unknown officer who was the brain of the Pakistan Navy in the 60's/70's.

Captain Khan Hasan Zia. My father served with him for a long time and according to him, Capt Zia was the finest officer he had ever seen.

He was a Dartmouth trained officer and his achievements are:

1. He laid down the foundations of the PN Staff College.
2. He was brain behind the birth of Naval aviation.
3. He selected the two main platforms for the aviation i.e, Atlantic and the Sea King.
4. He advised the modification of the AM-39 Exocet modification on Atlantic aircraft and later the Sea King helicopters.
5. He revamped the PN Operations directorate after the 1971 war.

He was later retired in 1977 for criticizing the actions of an Admiral.
Thats sad how he retired and our senior i think need to be sometimes little more patient with atleast bright officers in armed forces.


@Topic
BTW some more abt CDR Ahmed Tasnim; He is only naval officer to have won Bar in Sitara e Jurrat (Bar in SeJ is given to an officer who wins it for the second time). Hilal e Imtiaz, Sitara e Basalat and Tamgha e Basalat. He also partispated in US Navy in Vietnam along with Air Chief Marshall Abbas Khattak and others.
 
Neither Ayub or Yahya were any worthy of being called commanders or leaders. Their dithering and short-sightedness along with loose morals for the latter left no stone unturned in taking bad decisions or none at all.

One senior tactical Air Force commander(or command) that deserves mention is that of 33 Tactical wing in 1971 at Masroor AB. It was this wings efforts in launching non-stop and composite strikes with whatever it had to stop the Indian Advance at Monabao which would otherwise have cut Pakistan into two and our womanizing leader Gen Yahya would have wet his pants.

The Navy has had some good commanders, in its early days but rarely so after that. Call it neglect if you will.

The Army has had some good commanders during peacetime, senior leadership of many Corps has performed well and its a long list. There are tactical commanders as well.

But if one was to really look at the overall best of what Pakistan has produced, then it has to be AVM Asghar Khan,The Air Force had far better leadership and Asghar Khan can be credited with being best senior leader the Pakistani military has every produced since it was his reorganization of the PAF that changed it into the high standard and well oiled force it still is today.and the reason is that his leadership did not just have its effects then, those effects and that of his immediate juniors and the team he trained and led STILL last today in the ethos and operational mindset of the PAF. That is the measure of leadership, when your actions have effects long after you have left the field.
Pakistan cannot be cut at Monabao.
 
Pakistan cannot be cut at Monabao.

According to ACdre Sajjad Haider's book, that was the eventual idea of the offensive in the area.

A more recent analysis by ACdre Tufail gives a less dramatic but equally important marks to the performance
From
Aeronaut: Air Support in Thar – 1971 War
Further south, Indian 11 Division was tasked to capture Naya Chor by launching an offensive along Monabao-Khokhrapar-Naya Chor axis with the help of two brigades and, subsequently to develop operations into the green belt of Sindh. Additionally, the division’s third brigade was to outflank and capture Chachro along the Gadra-Khinsar-Chachro axis. Apparently no link-up of the two widely divergent incursions was planned and, neither complemented the other. The Indians had envisaged that a threat to towns like Mirpurkhas and Umarkot would force Pakistan’s II Corps to detach its elements for the assistance of 18 Division’s single brigade in this sector, thus depleting the former’s offensive potential.

As the two Indian brigades advanced towards Naya Chor on the night of 4 December, they met little resistance at first. The disrupted rail link between Monabao and Khokhrapar was repaired and, it was hoped that a regular logistics supply chain would hasten progress of the onslaught. The rail connection, which had been in disuse for years, had many more snags than expected. The vulnerable rail link proved to be the very bane of the Indian brigades as Pakistan Air Force swung into action and started a concerted day and night interdiction campaign that precipitated the ‘overstretch’ which the Official History of 1971 Indo-Pak War much bemoans [4].

......

The rapid Indian push towards Naya Chor had all the portends of a grave situation developing and, immediate air support had to be provided to ward off the threat. The Base Commander at Masroor, Air Commodore Nazir Latif, along with the OC of No 32 Wing, Group Captain Wiqar Azim responded swiftly and decided to throw in everything the Base could muster. Composite missions, including different types of aircraft, were ingeniously flown. The OC Wing and two of his Squadron Commanders, Wing Commander Shaikh Saleem (No 19 Squadron) and Wing Commander Asghar Randhawa (No 2 Squadron) were at the forefront of this air action and led many missions themselves. Many interdiction and armed reconnaissance missions targeted trains laden with fuel and ammunition along the Khokhrapar-Naya Chor railway line. Tanks and vehicles exposed in the open also turned out to be lucrative targets and, in the surprising absence of air opposition, multiple attacks were carried out without much trouble.

....................

In all, 175 sorties (including 24 night sorties by B-57, T-33 and even C-130) were flown in support of 18 Division in Chor, Ramgarh and Kutch Sectors; this formed one quarter of the total air support effort provided by PAF during the war [7]. In addition, 40 combat air patrol sorties were flown by F-86E and F-104 to cover the vital troop and armour reinforcements arriving by train from the central zone to Naya Chor. The inability of the IAF to interfere with the reinforcements only underscores the effectiveness of PAF’s air umbrella.


Unlike the PAF’s air support in the northern battle zones, where as many as one-third of the air support sorties were unsuccessful (mainly because the enemy tanks and vehicles could not be sighted in the natural camouflage of Punjab), the success rate in Thar was nearly 100% as the desert offered the enemy no sanctuary. A total of 20 tanks, 63 vehicles, 5 trains, 3 bulk fuel stores and an ammunition dump were claimed by the pilots, according to PAF’s official history [8]. During the course of the tactical air support campaign by the PAF, no aircraft were lost to ground fire. IAF, however, lost three Uttarlai-based HF-24s to vigilant Pak Army AAA while on air support missions in Naya Chor area [9].
 
Thats sad how he retired and our senior i think need to be sometimes little more patient with atleast bright officers in armed forces.

What do you think happened to MM Alam? He was forced out by Zia's cohort AirChief whats his name. Army or politicians. All cut from the same cloth, fat fucks overrate their value.
 
According to ACdre Sajjad Haider's book, that was the eventual idea of the offensive in the area.

A more recent analysis by ACdre Tufail gives a less dramatic but equally important marks to the performance
From
Aeronaut: Air Support in Thar – 1971 War
Further south, Indian 11 Division was tasked to capture Naya Chor by launching an offensive along Monabao-Khokhrapar-Naya Chor axis with the help of two brigades and, subsequently to develop operations into the green belt of Sindh. Additionally, the division’s third brigade was to outflank and capture Chachro along the Gadra-Khinsar-Chachro axis. Apparently no link-up of the two widely divergent incursions was planned and, neither complemented the other. The Indians had envisaged that a threat to towns like Mirpurkhas and Umarkot would force Pakistan’s II Corps to detach its elements for the assistance of 18 Division’s single brigade in this sector, thus depleting the former’s offensive potential.

As the two Indian brigades advanced towards Naya Chor on the night of 4 December, they met little resistance at first. The disrupted rail link between Monabao and Khokhrapar was repaired and, it was hoped that a regular logistics supply chain would hasten progress of the onslaught. The rail connection, which had been in disuse for years, had many more snags than expected. The vulnerable rail link proved to be the very bane of the Indian brigades as Pakistan Air Force swung into action and started a concerted day and night interdiction campaign that precipitated the ‘overstretch’ which the Official History of 1971 Indo-Pak War much bemoans [4].

......

The rapid Indian push towards Naya Chor had all the portends of a grave situation developing and, immediate air support had to be provided to ward off the threat. The Base Commander at Masroor, Air Commodore Nazir Latif, along with the OC of No 32 Wing, Group Captain Wiqar Azim responded swiftly and decided to throw in everything the Base could muster. Composite missions, including different types of aircraft, were ingeniously flown. The OC Wing and two of his Squadron Commanders, Wing Commander Shaikh Saleem (No 19 Squadron) and Wing Commander Asghar Randhawa (No 2 Squadron) were at the forefront of this air action and led many missions themselves. Many interdiction and armed reconnaissance missions targeted trains laden with fuel and ammunition along the Khokhrapar-Naya Chor railway line. Tanks and vehicles exposed in the open also turned out to be lucrative targets and, in the surprising absence of air opposition, multiple attacks were carried out without much trouble.

....................

In all, 175 sorties (including 24 night sorties by B-57, T-33 and even C-130) were flown in support of 18 Division in Chor, Ramgarh and Kutch Sectors; this formed one quarter of the total air support effort provided by PAF during the war [7]. In addition, 40 combat air patrol sorties were flown by F-86E and F-104 to cover the vital troop and armour reinforcements arriving by train from the central zone to Naya Chor. The inability of the IAF to interfere with the reinforcements only underscores the effectiveness of PAF’s air umbrella.


Unlike the PAF’s air support in the northern battle zones, where as many as one-third of the air support sorties were unsuccessful (mainly because the enemy tanks and vehicles could not be sighted in the natural camouflage of Punjab), the success rate in Thar was nearly 100% as the desert offered the enemy no sanctuary. A total of 20 tanks, 63 vehicles, 5 trains, 3 bulk fuel stores and an ammunition dump were claimed by the pilots, according to PAF’s official history [8]. During the course of the tactical air support campaign by the PAF, no aircraft were lost to ground fire. IAF, however, lost three Uttarlai-based HF-24s to vigilant Pak Army AAA while on air support missions in Naya Chor area [9].
Yaar i know PAF's role in the sector that you have mentioned in detail.

Just wanted to point out something else. Please keep a map infront of you and tell me that the axes on which the two prongs as you have mentioned were directed could 'cut Pakistan in two halves'?

Hint: On the same map plot Tanot-Sandh and Kishangarh-Sadoqabad axes. (Reti-RYK sector).

You are mixing up the Indian MAIN and AUXILIARY Efforts in the desert sector.
 
All Right the moderators and TT havaldars. Now u guys r going off topic............ What i said in my question was to judge a best commander in all three services on his war time efforts.
 
Yaar i know PAF's role in the sector that you have mentioned in detail.

Just wanted to point out something else. Please keep a map infront of you and tell me that the axes on which the two prongs as you have mentioned were directed could 'cut Pakistan in two halves'?

Hint: On the same map plot Tanot-Sandh and Kishangarh-Sadoqabad axes. (Reti-RYK sector).

You are mixing up the Indian MAIN and AUXILIARY Efforts in the desert sector.

Quite right. However, the actions of Nazir "Bill" Latif are commendable for independent operational leadership
 
Air Marshal Asghar khan(PAF restructuring)

Air commodore mm alam (65 war)

Air Commodore Nazir Latif, (71 war)

Vice Admiral Ahmed tasnim (71 war)

Major .Gen Akbar khan (1st Kashmir war/post independence)

Gen Akhtar hussain malik (65 war)

Major Gen Zia-ur-Rahman ( 65 war)

Air Commodore M. K. Janjua, (1st Kashmir war/post independence)

Maj. Gen. Nazir Ahmed, (1st Kashmir war/post independence)

Brigadier Sadiq Khan, (1st Kashmir war/post independence)

Brigadier M. A. Latif Khan, (1st Kashmir war/post independence)

Lt. Col. Zia-ud-Din, (1st Kashmir war/post independence)

Lt. Col. Niaz Muhammad Arbab, (1st Kashmir war/post independence)

Captain Khizar Hayat, (1st Kashmir war/post independence)

Maj. Hassan Khan, (1st Kashmir war/post independence)

Major Ishaq Muhammad, (1st Kashmir war/post independence)

Captain Zafrullah Poshni (1st Kashmir war/post independence)
 
@Windjammer


His Kargil plan was brilliant (just like Siachin for India) but unfortunately our political-military difference failed that plan. His failure was to go ahead with his plan without calculating the political fall out of that decision.

The Kargil plan was not brilliant, planing a operation without informing the Air Force and operating without air defence.....was the biggest failure of this operation.
 
Gen. Akhtar Abdur Rahman for ISI ( The man was Legend , he made USSR dance around his fingers , his death was a huge loss and the gap left by him has yet to be filled )

For Army I would Say General Ayub Khan

as For Air Force it is a thwo way tie between ACM Mushaf Ali Mir /Nur Khan

and For navy Karamat Rahman Niazi ( The Commanding officer of PNS Ghazi in 1965 war )
 
It was probably diverted towards the SSG commandos of Pakistan that were captured by Indian civilians ;)
they were not captured by ur civilians i dont know what kind of books they use for ur curriculum .... 179 were air dropped at halwara 173 embraced shahadat after gun fight with indian military forces 6 came back with Captain hasnain with captured indian jeep with indian officer and 3 sepoy as prisoner of war they drove them all they way from Halwara into Pakistan and they came back after 9 days ......

and for me i will vote for Brigadier T.M because of his famous operation against insurgents in bangladesh that raid at Bhairab Bazar april 1971
 
they were not captured by ur civilians i dont know what kind of books they use for ur curriculum .... 179 were air dropped at halwara 173 embraced shahadat after gun fight with indian military forces 6 came back with Captain hasnain with captured indian jeep with indian officer and 3 sepoy as prisoner of war they drove them all they way from Halwara into Pakistan and they came back after 9 days ......

and for me i will vote for Brigadier T.M because of his famous operation against insurgents in bangladesh that raid at Bhairab Bazar april 1971
They have a history , you know :



SSG being hunted by Indian villagers in sugarcane fields - Indo-Pak war , 1965.

1965ssg1.jpg

On September 7, 1965, the Special Services Group (SSG) commandos were parachuted into enemy territory. According to Chief of Army Staff General Muhammad Musa, about 135 commandos were airdropped at three Indian airfields (Halwara, Pathankot and Adampur). The daring attempt proved to be an "unmitigated disaster".Only 22 commandos returned to Pakistan as planned, 93 were taken prisoner (including one of the Commanders of the operations, Major Khalid Butt), and 20 were killed in encounters with the army, police or civilians.The reason for the failure of the commando mission is attributed to the failure to provide maps, proper briefings and adequate planning or preparation.
 

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