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A Question about democracy and Communist Party of China

Democracy is crap but Communism is a worse kind of crap...IMo ill keep it short

Every aspect of Human society is bound to be influenced by corruption whatever the reason may be ; The fact remains that the one whose able to rectify it without any bloodshed and massive collateral is Democracy..if something like this happens in a communist regime ur screwed Period.

How log does china think it can censor all its -ve out?
The fact remains Chinks grow a mouth on em only when they distance themselves from the regime..either by traveling outside or defecting.

I understand nationalism but its only the upper 30% who have it good and are nationalistic...from the Laborers to Flengong people are suffering no denying it.

Not that democracy doesn't have its share of problems and (Don't bring the US into it its Screwed up bad and its gonna take many more with em )..

I personally thing its should rater be competitive Democracy with 30% Socialism to be the best system as it wont have Separatist shitting on the freedom of speech, neither will it have Censorship and propaganda, nd best of all the corrupt could be dealt with and nipped in the bud faster;
it would be a win win every time:coffee:
 
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Democracy is crap but Communism is a worse kind of crap...IMo ill keep it short

Every aspect of Human society is bound to be influenced by corruption whatever the reason may be ; The fact remains that the one whose able to rectify it without any bloodshed and massive collateral is Democracy..if something like this happens in a communist regime ur screwed Period.

How log does china think it can censor all its -ve out?
The fact remains Chinks grow a mouth on em only when they distance themselves from the regime..either by traveling outside or defecting.

I understand nationalism but its only the upper 30% who have it good and are nationalistic...from the Laborers to Flengong people are suffering no denying it.

Not that democracy doesn't have its share of problems and (Don't bring the US into it its Screwed up bad and its gonna take many more with em )..

I personally thing its should rater be competitive Democracy with 30% Socialism to be the best system as it wont have Separatist shitting on the freedom of speech, neither will it have Censorship and propaganda, nd best of all the corrupt could be dealt with and nipped in the bud faster;
it would be a win win every time:coffee:
Sounds you are a social designer.How do you calculate that there are no Censorship and propaganda in a dmocracy with 30% Socialism .
 
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In my opinion, we should focus on the end goal of a good governance, and less on political systems. Democracy is just one of the means, but not a some abstract be-all-and-end-all goal for all society portrait by the West. I believe the goal is to have a government that is efficient (promote development for its people; multi-party democracy is a bad choice for that), just (rule by law), fair (open and transparent; free press and freedom speech can help reduce corruption). All these goals are not democracy specific per se; West style democracy helps in some aspects but hampers in others. As shown by my friends here already based on these criteria the authoritarian Singapore society ranks pretty high on all these aspects. I think the most likely outcome of the on-going reform will be a single-party parliamentary democracy system for China with Chinese characteristics :azn:
 
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The West like to focus on the legislative process of China, fallaciously claiming it to be flawed, but I think the Chinese system is FAR more professional than Western populist democracy. What I find wanting is China's judiciary independence. Court decisions can be overriden in a whim when other branches of the government seek efficiency, and to me that's unacceptable. So far, it's the greatest hidden threat to China's long-term stability, not some silly election shows.
In short, I want the Hong Kong system applied to China.
 
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Sounds you are a social designer.How do you calculate that there are no Censorship and propaganda in a democracy with 30% Socialism

No im just an ITgrad+Mba ongoing student...30% was used just as a metaphor to symbolize a substantial Democracy with a few Socialistic rules of law within monetary policies, social welfare and Govt control over Market Shares.

Well urs is the same kind of question as how does someone Insure security from Crimes..Answers the most obvious by enacting Amendments\New Fair Laws (and yea make amendments using popular vote ; Not like America if u kno what i mean ) and Enforcing them...
Problems don't arise in decision making it comes with Enforcement ..

Lets see how long these newbies can last.
^^^
no life.......jk:lol:
 
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The opposite of democracy is dictatorship.

A dictatorship is defined as a government dominated by one person.

The Communist Party of China has the same number of members as Turkey has people overall. 77 million.

It is not a dictatorship.

Therefore, we are a democracy already.

Communist Party of China - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The CPC is the world's largest political party,[9] claiming nearly 78 million members[10] at the end of 2009 which constitutes about 5.6% of the total population of mainland China.

Demographics of the People's Republic of China - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

19.8% of the population is under the age of 15, and therefore cannot participate in politics. My estimates are, probably another 10% of the population is 15-22 (the minimum age to join CPC is 22). About 8% of the population eligible to join, are members. Or, one member per 12 people. The average extended family in China has 8-9 people. Therefore, approximately one person per family is a CPC member.

^^^The opposite of democracy is dictatorship ?

A Democratic Dictatorship
A Democratic Dictatorship

Amidst all the discussion and debate about whether President Bush has violated the law by ordering the National Security Agency (NSA) to record telephone conversations, we must not overlook an important fact: the United States is now traveling in uncharted waters, ones in which the ruler of the nation is exercising omnipotent power over the American people. A more appropriate word would be one that offends some Americans when it is applied to their system of government: dictatorship. But as uncomfortable as that term might make Americans, the fact is that ever since 9/11 Americans have been living under dictatorial rule.

What is a dictator? A dictator is a ruler whose powers are omnipotent, that is, unconstrained by external or superior law. A dictator has the power to take whatever actions he wants without concerning himself about whether they are legal. Anything the dictator does is legal because he is the law.

It wasn’t always that way in the United States. When the Constitution was enacted, its goal was not only to call the federal government into existence but also to ensure that it would not be headed by a dictator. To accomplish that, the Framers inserted language expressly limiting the president to a few well-defined powers. If a power wasn’t enumerated, the president could not legally exercise it. The Constitution was the higher law that governed the actions of all federal officials.

What if the president intentionally violated those restrictions? The Constitution provided two remedies. First, the judicial branch could declare the president’s acts to be in violation of the Constitution and order him to comply with its judgment. As the Supreme Court held in the famous case of Marbury v. Madison, the judicial branch’s determination of constitutionality trumped the president’s opinion of constitutionality.

Second, the Constitution gave the legislative branch of government — the Congress — the power to impeach the president and remove him from office.

What many Americans fail to understand is that it is entirely possible to have democracy and dictatorship at the same time. Democracy entails the use of elections to place people into positions of power. Dictatorship entails the extent of the powers that the ruler is able to exercise after he assumes office.

Therefore, it is entirely possible to have a democratically elected dictator — a person who has been duly elected to office who exercises dictatorial powers. This is exactly the case of George W. Bush.

Some Americans become offended whenever critics bring up the name of Adolf Hitler in discussing the dictatorial powers that President Bush is now exercising. They miss the point. When critics bring up Hitler’s name in the context of Bush’s exercise of dictatorial powers, they’re not suggesting that Bush and Hitler are somehow equivalent evils or that Bush has committed the horrors that Hitler committed.

What they’re instead saying is that Hitler sets a good benchmark for what dictatorship involves. Therefore, he provides a good means by which to measure the powers being exercised by another ruler. If George W. Bush or any other American president exercises the same types of omnipotent powers that Hitler exercised, that should serve as a powerful wake-up call for the American people, who have long wondered how the German people could have allowed Hitler to become a dictator (see my article “How Hitler Became a Dictator”).

Therefore, the issue is not whether Bush is a “good” man, as many of his supporters contend. The issue is whether this “good” man has assumed dictatorial powers in the wake of 9/11. The issue also is whether any man, good or evil, should ever be given dictatorial powers.

In fact, Vice President Cheney was making much the same point when he recently said that Venezuela’s democratically elected president, Hugo Chavez, was comparable to Hitler. Cheney wasn’t suggesting that Chavez had instituted concentration camps in which millions were being killed. What he was saying was that Chavez, albeit democratically elected, was “consolidating power.”

The question that the American people must ask is: Has President Bush been doing the same thing — “consolidating power” — ever since 9/11, especially as part of his “war on terrorism” and his invasion of Iraq? Everyone would have to concede that he has.

Dictatorial powers

Consider the specific powers the president is claiming:

1. The power to order the Pentagon to take any American anywhere in the world, including here in the United States, into custody and punish him, even execute him, without according him the protections of the Bill of Rights. Under this power, all the Pentagon has to do is place a document in front of the president labeling any particular American a “terrorist,” and once the president signs it the Pentagon has the omnipotent power to punish the “terrorist.”

Does the person who is labeled a “terrorist” have the right to appeal such a determination? No. Even if the designated terrorist is a newspaper editor, a prominent celebrity, or a well-known anti-war critic, the president’s determination is final. Keep in mind that, according to the president and the Pentagon, we are at war and neither the courts nor the Congress should be permitted to interfere with the military decisions made by the Pentagon and the commander in chief.

Are there any restraints on the particular type of punishment that the military metes out to a designated terrorist? No. Since the president and the Pentagon consider a terrorist to be an illegal enemy combatant, they refuse to be bound by the Geneva Convention, which provides long-established protections for prisoners of war. No one needs to be reminded of how U.S. military personnel have subjected the “terrorists” held in U.S. facilities at Guantanamo Bay, Abu Ghraib, and elsewhere to torture, sex abuse, rape, and murder. While Americans have not been subjected to the same mistreatment, that is simply owing to a discretionary decision by the president and the Pentagon; it could be changed at any time.

2. The power to record telephone conversations of the American people without first securing a search warrant from a magistrate in the judicial branch, as the Bill of Rights requires. In fact, under the president’s rationale, there’s nothing to prevent him from conducting any warrantless searches as long as they are part of the “war on terrorism.”

3. The power to send the entire nation into war against a foreign nation without a declaration of war from Congress, despite the fact that the Constitution expressly delegates that power to Congress, not the president.

No one can deny that those three powers are dictatorial in nature. But it’s important that they be considered in the context of the president’s own justifications for exercising such powers. It is those justifications that have sent America sailing into the uncharted waters of dictatorial rule.

The congressional justification

The president cites two primary justifications for exercising omnipotent power, which he interweaves. First, he says that Congress authorized him to take whatever measures he deemed necessary to seek out and arrest or destroy the terrorists who were responsible for the 9/11 attacks. Second, he says that since we are now at war — the “war on terrorism” — he is able to exercise omnipotent powers as the nation’s military commander in chief.

Bush’s first justification involves the congressional resolution that was enacted in the wake of the 9/11 attacks, which authorized him to use force against those who had conspired to carry out the attacks.

Ironically, Bush’s justification is quite similar to the one that Hitler used to justify his dictatorial powers. After the terrorist attack on the German parliament building, Hitler went to his legislature and argued for a temporary suspension of civil liberties. After heated discussion and debate, including Hitler’s suggestion that such legislation was necessary to protect the freedom of the German people, the necessary number of votes for passage was finally secured. The law granting dictatorial powers to Hitler became known as the “Enabling Act.”

How is this different, in principle, from Bush’s claim that the authorization-of-force resolution that Congress enacted immediately after 9/11 gave him omnipotent powers to deal with the “terrorists”?

There are two major problems with Bush’s reasoning. One is that, unlike Germany’s Enabling Act, which expressly suspended civil liberties, the resolution enacted by Congress did not do any such thing. Yet Bush is effectively interpreting it to mean that Congress granted him what the German Enabling Act granted Hitler — the power to override constitutional protections of civil liberties.

More important, however, is the fact that, under the U.S. Constitution, Congress is not empowered to pass laws that nullify the protections and guarantees in the Constitution. The only way that any provision in the document can be nullified is through constitutional amendment. A statutory attempt to nullify jury trials, search warrant requirements, due process of law, and right to counsel has no legal effect whatsoever.

The commander in chief justification

Bush’s other justification for the assumption and exercise of omnipotent powers is his role as commander in chief of the armed forces during a time of war. What war? The “war on terrorism,” which, again ironically, was the same type of war that Hitler declared after terrorists struck the Reichstag with a firebomb.

There is one crucial difference between Hitler’s claim of power and Bush’s claim of power, however. The Enabling Act was only a temporary grant of powers. Each time it was set to expire, Hitler would duly return to the Reichstag and secure legislation “temporarily” extending it.

Bush’s rationale for his omnipotent powers, on the other hand, is that, as the nation’s military commander in chief in the “war on terrorism,” his omnipotent powers will last as long as the war continues. Of course, since it is impossible to know with any degree of certainty when the last terrorist is exterminated or neutralized, that means that for all practical purposes the “war on terrorism” is perpetual, which means that Bush’s powers are perpetual as well (and will as well be held by his democratically elected successor in 2009).

There is no merit whatsoever, however, to Bush’s argument that the Constitution grants omnipotent powers to a president when he puts on the helmet of a military commander in chief. In fact, there is no suggestion whatsoever in the Constitution that war gives rise to the exercise of any powers that nullify any of the other restrictions on power in the Constitution, especially in the Bill of Rights.

What Bush is relying on is the old European notion of imperial dictatorial powers that were claimed by a ruler when he led his military forces into war against another nation.

Think about Napoleon, who became a dictator by centralizing power, especially in his role as commander in chief of French military forces. Or, closer to home, think of the president of Mexico, Santa Anna, whose centralization of power not only made him the “Napoleon of the West” but also precipitated the insurgency in Texas.

This is how Bush views himself as the nation’s commander in chief — as a Napoleon or a Santa Anna, along with the omnipotent powers that those two dictators exercised. It’s the old European notion of inherent imperial powers granted the sovereign, both as emperor and as commander in chief of the nation’s military forces.

There’s just one big problem with Bush’s analysis, however. Our American ancestors fully and completely rejected the notion of inherent imperial powers with the enactment of the Constitution and the Bill of Rights. That, in fact, was one major reason for limiting the powers of the president by expressly enumerating them in the Constitution — to negate the old European notion of “inherent” sovereign powers.

Dictatorship or liberty?

Of course, there are those who say, “The situation is not really that serious. President Bush is a good man. He can be trusted to do the right thing. He won’t abuse these powers. He’s exercised them against only a few Americans.”

They’re missing some important points. One is that no matter how good a man President Bush is, dictatorships are the opposite of liberty and, therefore, are morally wrong, no matter how good or benevolent the dictator is. Moreover, once dictatorial powers are relinquished to a “good man,” there is no assurance that he won’t become a bad man or that a bad man will not succeed him. A good test is: Would I want the most despicable character I can think of — say, Adolf Hitler, Joseph Stalin, or Mao Zedong — to have any of these powers over me and my country? If your answer is “No,” then your answer should be the same with respect to George W. Bush.

As history has shown, once a ruler is given dictatorial powers, there is no assurance that the powers will not be expanded to larger groups of people and abused much more extensively, especially if there is a huge crisis that strikes fear and panic among the citizenry. After all, keep in mind that, in the absence of the terrorist strike on the Reichstag, Hitler might well not have been able to secure passage of the Enabling Act. Ask yourself: How would the compliant, Republican-controlled Congress respond to a request by President Bush for an expansion of powers if terrorists exploded a massive bomb today in the middle of the U.S. Capitol?

Unfortunately, many Americans, like other people in history, don’t want to face the disquieting truth about the dark and ominous direction in which their nation is currently headed. They simply wish to bury their heads in the sand and not analyze too closely the logical implications of the president’s and the Pentagon’s position. They don’t want to face that we are now traveling in uncharted waters with respect to dictatorship.

Here is the unvarnished truth that Americans are trying to avoid confronting: Both the president and the Pentagon have repeatedly emphasized that the nation is at war. It is a war against the “terrorists.” In this war, the entire world is the battlefield, including both Iraq and the United States.

In this war, the president is the nation’s commander in chief and, as such, wields omnipotent powers to defeat the enemy and win the war. These powers include the power to arrest and punish Americans as illegal “enemy combatants” — denying them jury trials, due process, lawyers, or any federal court interference. They have the power to take people into custody and transport them to foreign regimes for torture. They have the power to record telephone conversations without warrants.

In other words, the president and the Pentagon have the same powers to wage their “war on terrorism” in the United States as they have in Iraq. Yes, you read that right — Iraq. That is the logical consequence of what these people are saying. They have the power to do everything they’re doing in Iraq right here in the United States: the power to break people’s doors down and search their homes and businesses without warrants; the power to arrest and indefinitely detain people; the power to torture and abuse prisoners and detainees; the power to fire missiles into cars or apartment complexes where the “terrorists” are traveling or hiding out; the power to confiscate guns.

Ultimately, the solution to dictatorship lies with the citizenry — a citizenry whose love of liberty trumps everything else, including fear and the desire to be taken care of. Time will tell whether that love of liberty is still a powerful force within the hearts and minds of the American people — sufficiently powerful to overcome the fear and quest for “security” that currently hold people in their grip — sufficiently powerful to restore freedom to our land.
 
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If you guys have learnt about communism, what is there in china in no way near to communism.
As per Wikipedia.org. Communism is a sociopolitical movement that aims for a classless and stateless society structured upon common ownership of the means of production, free access to articles of consumption, and the end of wage labour and private property in the means of production and real estate.
Now in china people in the ruling party who call themselves communist...are totally making fool of the masses. In fact they are Authoritarian. Their population away from the western coast is really in bad situation. They are not getting any money in return of working in the farms or factories..what they get is two times meal so that they can survive till next working day. There is no festival for them no weekend, totally inhumane. We Indians and Pakistanis are very lucky my dear friends...in comparing to us, a common person in china have no rights. In china u cant access facebook...u cant do anything...infact u cant even make love with ur wife or gf...u need to take rulers approval to become a father or mother...what a bull is this???
If there is hell somewhere on the earth...its China.
 
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you are absolutely wrong if u r saying democracy is a crap....the problem is.....democracy is the most advanced from of politics which require that every single person should be educated...not only qualification wise...but morally too.
 
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If you guys have learnt about communism, what is there in china in no way near to communism.
As per Wikipedia.org. Communism is a sociopolitical movement that aims for a classless and stateless society structured upon common ownership of the means of production, free access to articles of consumption, and the end of wage labour and private property in the means of production and real estate.
Now in china people in the ruling party who call themselves communist...are totally making fool of the masses. In fact they are Authoritarian. Their population away from the western coast is really in bad situation. They are not getting any money in return of working in the farms or factories..what they get is two times meal so that they can survive till next working day. There is no festival for them no weekend, totally inhumane. We Indians and Pakistanis are very lucky my dear friends...in comparing to us, a common person in china have no rights. In china u cant access facebook...u cant do anything...infact u cant even make love with ur wife or gf...u need to take rulers approval to become a father or mother...what a bull is this???
If there is hell somewhere on the earth...its China.

Buddy, China doesn't have the 'western coast'.
 
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If you guys have learnt about communism, what is there in china in no way near to communism.
As per Wikipedia.org. Communism is a sociopolitical movement that aims for a classless and stateless society structured upon common ownership of the means of production, free access to articles of consumption, and the end of wage labour and private property in the means of production and real estate.
Now in china people in the ruling party who call themselves communist...are totally making fool of the masses. In fact they are Authoritarian. Their population away from the western coast is really in bad situation. They are not getting any money in return of working in the farms or factories..what they get is two times meal so that they can survive till next working day. There is no festival for them no weekend, totally inhumane. We Indians and Pakistanis are very lucky my dear friends...in comparing to us, a common person in china have no rights. In china u cant access facebook...u cant do anything...infact u cant even make love with ur wife or gf...u need to take rulers approval to become a father or mother...what a bull is this???
If there is hell somewhere on the earth...its China.

Firstly, completely wrong.

Secondly, THIS is Hell on Earth:

BBC News - More poor in India than Africa

Also:

A Unicef report in May said the world was failing its children by not ensuring that they had enough to eat.

The report said India contributed to about 5.6 million child deaths per year, more than half the world's total.

BBC NEWS | South Asia | 'Hunger critical' in South Asia

Not only does India have more poverty than Africa... India also starves millions of its children to death every single year.
 
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If you guys have learnt about communism, what is there in china in no way near to communism.
As per Wikipedia.org. Communism is a sociopolitical movement that aims for a classless and stateless society structured upon common ownership of the means of production, free access to articles of consumption, and the end of wage labour and private property in the means of production and real estate.
Now in china people in the ruling party who call themselves communist...are totally making fool of the masses. In fact they are Authoritarian. Their population away from the western coast is really in bad situation. They are not getting any money in return of working in the farms or factories..what they get is two times meal so that they can survive till next working day. There is no festival for them no weekend, totally inhumane. We Indians and Pakistanis are very lucky my dear friends...in comparing to us, a common person in china have no rights. In china u cant access facebook...u cant do anything...infact u cant even make love with ur wife or gf...u need to take rulers approval to become a father or mother...what a bull is this???
If there is hell somewhere on the earth...its China.

:lol:

I'm from the western part of China. We eat more than all except the Indian oligarchs. My home village, population 50000, has a higher electrification rate, people make more money than, and eat better than the average resident in New Delhi.

India is a funny country. There is the top 1% rich who are fat, and no one else is fat, because they're starving. North Korea is like this too. North Korea, however, only starved 1 million to death once. India starves 2 million to death every year. The average North Korean eats more, makes more money than and lives longer than the average Indian, let's not even talk about China. How dare you look down on North Koreans, they're far superior to you.
 
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:lol:

I'm from the western part of China. We eat more than all except the Indian oligarchs. My home village, population 50000, has a higher electrification rate, people make more money than, and eat better than the average resident in New Delhi.

India is a funny country. There is the top 1% rich who are fat, and no one else is fat, because they're starving. North Korea is like this too. North Korea, however, only starved 1 million to death once. India starves 2 million to death every year. The average North Korean eats more, makes more money than and lives longer than the average Indian, let's not even talk about China. How dare you look down on North Koreans, they're far superior to you.

I think Hubei counts as the central part of China, while Sichuan counts as the western part.
 
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i have a question for chinese members i have always wondered.

what happens if like corrupt leaders like ours who are full of scams come to power in china. with no opposition and total control over police judiciary and army what are the views of chinese members about such a scenerio. i guess china had better leaders than us always but in such a scenerio how things would be
 
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